Should Verizon's lack of response to Windows 8.1 update questions gives reason for pause.

I can't think of any other industry that refuses to provide basic information on their product. More proof of Verizon's quality customer service without the quality. Soon Verizon may be without the customers part too. A sad reflection on Verizon's executive team.

Accepted answers

unknown

You are not guaranteed any updates to your device from Verizon.

They are not obligated to push it out if they choose not to.

You have no issue with Verizon Wireless.

When you purchased the device it functioned and did as it was purchased for.

Verizon Wireless has no obligation to give you or anyone information on an update they don't even have to give.

Good Luck

All comments

ynggrsshppr91

Oh yes, because so many people are going to flock to other carriers to get a useless firmare on a phone they get no service with. Shooting yourselves in the foot I say.

Did you buy the phone specifically for Cortana? No, because you likely didn't know such a thing exisited. Get a new phone that has it.

Verizon_Support

Tstan053, the proof is in pudding. We provide a support website at your finger tips which allows you to retrieve more information regarding your bill, plan, account and device support. Just click here: http://www.verizonwireless.com/support/

LasinaH_VZW

Follow us on Twitter @VZWSupport

Tstan053

Not surprising, this response fails to address the question asked.

unknown

You are not guaranteed any updates to your device from Verizon.

They are not obligated to push it out if they choose not to.

You have no issue with Verizon Wireless.

When you purchased the device it functioned and did as it was purchased for.

Verizon Wireless has no obligation to give you or anyone information on an update they don't even have to give.

Good Luck

penciltester

Elector is correct. About the only thing promised by Verizon is that your service will be cancelled if you don't pay them. Good customer service, competent testing teams and schedules, customer relations, etc all cost money. And Verizon wants as much revenue with the least amount of liability and effort as possible. I don't like it but that's how corporations work. On the other hand they pay their workers more than minimum wage so I applaud them for that .

bobH95

I got the Icon because I liked it 8.1 update or not, but I do have to say at the store the sales people gave a spiel about the 8.1 update's late summer release and all that. I would like to have it but to me it's just something that would make the phone more enjoyable than it already is to me, and is not necessary but they really should reel in the sales folk on using it as a selling point if they don't have a clue when the release date is going to be since it's already late summer. They should just say yes or no at this point and get it over with.

unknown

I don't know about you, but I would never let a sales person sway my decision to purchase anything.

I always research what device I want and then at the store I just walk over and start playing with the device.

In the corporate store I am shopping at for years, I even make calls from the device to see how clear and loud they are. Some stores don't have this ability any longer.

Also never go by that WiFi or cellular connection status in store. It is sitting right on top of both. So you may get worse after you leave the store.

Great post I enjoyed reading it.

rcschnoor

bobH95 wrote:

since it's already late summer

And will continue to be so until September 22.

penciltester

I absolutely agree. I used to work retail and we were told never to give promises that were not backed up by management. But I would also tell customers the truth. If they were keeping me in the dark or I felt I was being fed a line I would tell them exactly that.

Trenton07

You're right, the proof is in the pudding. You guys are still full of s&@t. Thanks for proving it.

unknown

Re: Congratulations, AT&T, we still don't have Cya... - Page 6 - AT&T Community

Yeah this is the forum you will be posting at once you leave Verizon.

Bookmark it so you will not be searching for their forum to complain at.

Good Luck

SilentNight

Unlike most people I have a reason for complaining. My phone does not work properly without Cyan. Lumia 822 Dev Preview 8.1 GDR1 camera and GPS don't work without Cyan. If Verizon doesn't release the update before summer officially ends, I will be switching back to AT&T. I have gone way to long without a camera (4 Months). While it isn't Verizon's fault for my camera not working it is their fault for preventing it from working this long . If anyone at Verizon actually reads this I strongly suggest you send these complaints up the chain. It isn't good to piss off your loyal customers.

DC4000

They have millions of customers. The Android ones don't team up with the Windows ones don't team up with the BB ones don't team up with the I-phone ones to complain about things. *Wrote it that way on purpose*

They don't care that one set of users of one specific OS on one specific phone is not happy about one delayed update. Mobile phones are as common as cars these days and you only have a few choices for getting them.

Not trying to be political, but if the government would have let some of these businesses fail, and let the "free market" work as it should, then maybe they'd treat their customers better when they are doing good. There is no motivation to do anything for you beyond the minimum required.

unknown

The Dev preview & GDR1 was not on the device when purchased, was it not?

When you first purchased your windows phone the camera worked?

The GPS worked?

Placing the developers preview on was your decision, so waiting for a update to fix it may or may not appear right away. You will have to wait and see what happens.

Good Luck

rednibkram

Once again, you are so set on defending Verizon, you fail to see the point.

The point is that the update that SilentNight placed on his device was already tested and approved by the manufacturer for his device. This update however requires some firmware updates to repair some inaccuracies on his device, but the only reaons SilentNight doesn't have this required update is because Verizon is preventing him from accessing it. Meanwhile, other carriers have already released the update.

Example. You go to BestBuy and purchase a Toshiba TV with a built-in DVD player and network support. Your network provider is Cox Cable. Toshiba says there is new software for your TV that will allow you to now play video games through your DVD player but you have to download the software through your network provider. The catch is that you will also need a firmware upgrade to allow changes to the DVD player enabling to read the video game DVD software. You download the software and install it on your computer, but Cox Cable decides they will block access to the firmware needed to update your TV for whatever reason, while ComCast is allowing full access to all its customers.

Question: How is this Toshiba's fault that you can't get the firmare update through Cox Cable?

You are attempting to displace fault onto the manufacturer either 1) for not having it on the device at time of sale, or 2) for not sending out the update themselves. However 1) devices are sold and updates are created for all phones and sent out all the time, even the iPhone. 2) The reason they can't send it out themselves is because Verizon DEMANDS interference! Either way, Verizon is fully at fault for delaying the update!

CharterCustomer

Availability in North America - Nokia

Well Nokia says that it's available for all the AT&T Lumias.

t-val79

My simple mind is confused by all this mumbo jumbo. I understand Verizon has 0 contractual obligations (typical for a 1 sided provider to consumer contract). I just have a simple question....

Are you going to release the WP 8.1 Cyan update, and if so, when do you anticipate doing so?

I understand you are contractually free to not respond at all to a straight forward question, but silence is poor customer service, plain and simple. Just as not updating would also be poor service/support. Just to be clear, I am not demanding anything. I am just a long time paying customer who is simply asking a question.

stewfish

Seriously, Verizon!! CANADA has the CYAN update. CANADA! When we can't even push out a simple update before ALL OF CANADA, then WTF are we doing? Seriously. Losing to CANADA now?!?

unknown

Canada has the most un-used land mass in North America.

It does not have the largest population in these land masses.

Number of cell phone penetration is less.

And Verizon is not a Canadian Provider which has nothing to do with your update here from Verizon.

When and if they want to push it out you will receive it.

No amount of complaining is going to get it to you any faster.

Tstan053

If those commenting on this thread want to debate who knows more about

product development than the other .... or who thinks they have an inside

scoop ... go and create your own thread.

My question isn't about how soon .... it is to express concern about a

management team failing to communicate with their customers. Customers who

own Nokia Lumina Icons. Verizon has been mute. Not so with their other

updates in the past with other OS platforms.

My uniformed guess is it has to do with supporting the HTC device. While,

if true, such a decision certainly enhances HTC's marketing opportunity but

it can also turn Icon owners into a red headed step-child.

My personal decision to purchase the Icon was partially based on Verizon

employees pitch on WP 8.1. Whether a sales pitch is made by the CEO or the

agent in the store it is still being made by Verizon ... that is all that

matters.

Want to know about Verizon's stance on updates ... go to their device

update page. They already have gone on "the record" that they do OS

updates .... nothing else needs to be said.

This is about $$$$.

I don't want to hear about CDMA vs GSM testing or who knows more about the

development process. I worked at the FCC approved testing lab in Chandler,

Arizona that tested Nokia phones for Nokia. So stop talking about things

you actually know little about just to razzle other commentors. Go start

your own thread. All that you are doing is turning a valid question into a

deflection of the real issue.

Verizon's total silence is a lack of customer service to the millions of

people who bought the Icon. Let me see ..... millions times hundreds of

dollars in charges each month equals hundreds of millions of dollars each

month. That should be reason enough to keep their Icon owners informed.

Refusing to say anything is a bad management decision. With the thousands

of questions on the subject from Icon owners I think Verizon's management

in charge of PR needs to be replaced because they don't get it.

CharterCustomer

I also suspect delaying the upgrade is a business decision. Well I can play that game too, I was considering switching my home to FIOS, will never happen now. I am lucky there is competition in my area and what I pay for my current service is reasonable.

Although I have no complaints about my wireless service and have no plans to switch to another provider, there is no justification for the delay. Verizon should have dedicated the necessary resources to handle this upgrade. The Windows Phone operating system is superior compared to what is out there presently, will only get better with time and gain market share due to Microsoft not being hindered by the antitrust litigation and oversight. Verizon management is just being penny wise and pound foolish, they could be making hundreds of dollars more a month from me and my family plan member.

unknown

You start your own thread. You are coming late into the thread and the conversation.

Verizon will allow an update when they are good and ready.

You have no business demanding anything. Let alone Verizon's stance on when or if it will be forthcoming.

They post the information they want at the communications page. Tough if nothing is said. They don't have to tell you anything.

They sell you a connection to the wireless and data network. Period.

They owe you nothing else.

You must have a working device to access the service. That is your responsibility not Verizon wireless.

And I personally don't care if you test any devices. Your word on it does not sway anyone.

And this is an open forum, anyone can post or respond even you. So you telling people to post elsewhere is not even worth you writing.

Good Luck

CharterCustomer

Ez, it's not really important what Elector is or isn't. The issue is Verizon is doing what is in their own best interest, nothing more. They are just a service provider and we all vote with our wallets in the end. I have chosen to not give them my residential business due to them not upgrading my phone in a reasonable amount of time, whether its Verizon's fault or not. What I pay them for their wireless service amounts to not even a rounding error on their balance sheets. So if you are not happy with Verizon, at the end of your contract shop around and find some one better, Consumer Reports is a good place to start for this information. Speaking for myself, I switched to AT&T and Sprint in the past and have no problem doing it again in the future. Within my family and social circle, the best I can cost them is probably maximum $20k per month if I was determined and had the time. If enough people do this the executives will get a disappointing bonus and it will get their attention. Also if enough of us buy Verizon stock and vote against executive compensation, it will have an even greater effect.

In Verizon's defense they give me my bits when I need them, they are in compliance with the contract that I committed to.

unknown

Excellent post!

And it makes sense to use the provider you think gives you the best value.

However they are all the same. Maybe not coverage and speed wise but in relation to what they give as fas as updates and on what time table.

Verizon may take their time, AT&T pushed it out faster. T-Mobile is not updating to quickly either according to the Nokia web site.

So in the end you are correct, speak with your Do Re Me...who knows you may get their attention.

Good Luck

rednibkram

You think that we are just a small, insignificant number of "whiners" crying because we having gotten our updates? Well, apparently this issue is larger than you think and affect users in a much larger way than you are willing to acknowedge. This issue is significant enough for the ACLU to file a formal complaint with the FCC about this very issue.

It's not just us and it's not just "updates."

https://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty/aclu-files-ftc-complaint-over-android-smartphone-security

rednibkram

Also, this very article proves what I have been saying all along. Verizon is given the updates by the manufacturer to test and they are holding up the updates. The ACLU would not have placed this comment in an official complaint if it were not true. You asked for proof, here it is.

rednibkram

You can download the official complaint below:

https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/aclu_-_android_ftc_complaint_-_final.pdf

unknown

I just read the article and complaint. It does say Android but it could mean a windows device. Apple per the article does regular updates and patches.

It also states as I pointed out before that Google and device makers "Regularly" make patches for security leaks etc. The article is saying its all the carriers that are not putting them out.

However it is a suit to have the FCC have the authority to compel carriers to do what at present they do not have to do. As I have been saying and writing all along. There is no regulation or laws to make any carrier push out anything. That ACLU document proves my point. Thank you for the links.

I will tell you in the remedy phase the ACLU wants with carriers giving refunds is not going to happen since not all devices were purchased from Verizon wireless. I would also bet money the courts will throw it out as being to vague. What constitutes a security threat on the device? What manufacturer made the device? Would the courts say it is a task for device manufacturers to do their own updating?

Hey some good may come of it. Change can be good.

Tstan053

Especially if they can find collusion going on between manufacturers and carriers over releases of new equipment and updates of software when the intent is to motivate consumers to purchase the new equipment with the update already installed.

unknown

However it is dated April 2013 this is now September 2014

I am going to look and see what happened to this complaint. Note not a law suit but complaint.

Which never made it to anywhere.

Commission Decision Volumes | Federal Trade Commission

It would seem Verizon and the other carriers got it quashed. It is not mentioned in any FTC site search.

Like I been telling you, the carriers will do what they want.

Nice article. Proof? No. No regulatory agency or court has stated the carriers have to update. And shockingly this was for security measures. In the document it did say for any device using a no longer used lower version. Evidently now it does not include 4.x.x

unknown

Unfair trade practices? Yep that may be.

On the other hand big carriers and manufacturers go to court under Constraint Of Trade and tie up the ACLU and courts with their numerous lawyers who know their own business. Fun to watch but totally worthless from a consumer stand point.

Government spends tax dollars to fight, carriers can fight it out for years and do nothing but take in more money. Then if they lose or settle it will be for fines in millions. Not the billions they made through litigation.

Then say the government loses their case. Just imagine what happens then.

rednibkram

Mind you this is an April 2013 article and I am in the process of trying to find out the results, if any, in regards to this complaint.

My intent by showing this was to prove that this is a legitimate complaint and not a bunch "whiners" crying about not getting their update. Also, to prove that I am correct in my previous posts as to the update process.

There are potentially serious consequences with delays to updates regardless of whose to blame. This is why I have been stating all along that Verizon, and in fact all of the carriers, need to voluntarily amend their update process to get these updates out faster. If not, the ACLU has my full support in the continuation of this FCC complaint. This can potentially be a national security issue.

As for the "refunds," I believe the ACLU was only referring to the phones that were actually purchases from the carrier. Not the "unlocked" phones purchased elsewhere. In other words, the phone that are being subsedized by the carriers.

What constitutes a security threat on the device? That can be a bit hazy, but primarily it would be any "known or discoverd vulneability that allows for the unwanted or unknown manipulation of data that could expose an individual or group of individuals to a personal security breach of any information currently protected under the Privacy Act."

unknown

Search | Federal Trade Commission

In any search in any year including 2013 no action was taken on the ACLU complaint. Nothing zilch Nada!

That is why I have been knocking myself out trying to show you these constant complaints are useless.

And although many here find it frustrating only moving yourself to another device or to another service may be the answer.

Speak with your money. That will speak the best.

Have a nice weekend

rednibkram

Check out Volume 155 of that FTC Decision, see page 1633 paragraph F. Part of the FTC's decision on HTC case states that HTC must ensure the development and use of reasonable steps to select and retain service providers capable of maintaining security practices consistent with this order, and requiring service providers by contract to implement and maintain appropriate safeguards.

Since this is an FTC decision, I would think that this would apply to ALL manufacturers. To ensure that Section 5(a) of the FTC act is withheld, I would assume all manufactures must enter in a contract with the service provider to ensure certain security updates are implemented and maintained. Without this "contract" between manufacturer and service provider, there can be no certainty that Section 5(a) of the FTC Act is being maintained. Hence, there must be some contract in existence that would mandate that any necessary security updates be distributed by the service provider for the manufacture in order to be in accordance with Section 5(a) of the FTC Act.

muneo

If there was no Developer Preview, Verizon's claim that they are still testing the software may hold some water but the lack of "DP bricked my 928" threads on WPCentral show that 8.1 is good to go. My 928 is running great. In fact a secondary release was put out for random stability issues and feature updates. They are just sitting on it so they can convince you to buy the Iphone 6 right now. The last two updates (GDR1 and GDR2) were pushed out fairly quickly because there wasn't any major phone releases at the time and it didn't interfere with any of their marketing. Since the Lumia 928 is getting close to the 2 year upgrade period, there is no need to give it an awesome update to make you hold on to it longer than they want. Rumors of the HTC getting the update in October probably means we will see the Lumia updates around that time too. Im hoping it will be sooner but I wont be surprised if they are just playing for sales.

sheen

It gives me pause. If Verizon isn't going to provide Windows Phone SW updates as promptly as its competitors, that's 1 more reason for taking your business elsewhere. If they cared about its Windows Phone customers, we would be running 8.1 now on our Icons.

unknown

Let's assume (I don't like doing this) you have a valid point.

Seems reasonable that since there is a new Windows phone out with the OS update already on it.

And let's say the second flagship device is now on pre-sales or pre-order (Apple iPhone) so these sales are a driving force not to hurry any update to existing Windows devices. And let's be honest here there is no reason not to make more revenue.

Also remember the Android devices are also lacking timely updates so that is yet another hold up. With android holding the market share it just maybe other devices take a back seat.

Again it may just be that Verizon did not give priority to a low performing system phone in rankings or in sales.

It still means there is still going to be a wait.

But you made a good point. However all the guessing in the world is not going to get a firm date out of Verizon.

Tidbits

muneo wrote:

If there was no Developer Preview, Verizon's claim that they are still testing the software may hold some water but the lack of "DP bricked my 928" threads on WPCentral show that 8.1 is good to go. My 928 is running great. In fact a secondary release was put out for random stability issues and feature updates. They are just sitting on it so they can convince you to buy the Iphone 6 right now. The last two updates (GDR1 and GDR2) were pushed out fairly quickly because there wasn't any major phone releases at the time and it didn't interfere with any of their marketing. Since the Lumia 928 is getting close to the 2 year upgrade period, there is no need to give it an awesome update to make you hold on to it longer than they want. Rumors of the HTC getting the update in October probably means we will see the Lumia updates around that time too. Im hoping it will be sooner but I wont be surprised if they are just playing for sales.

You don't have to brick your phone to give pause for an update. the DP for all devices do not use current drivers and radios. If any of those have problems then of course you won't see those complaints because it wasn't there in the first place to allow it to hit public. When I tested the M8(Windows Phone) for HTC I had problems while some others who also tested it did not.

If you search enough with leaked software people claim what you claim that there is nothing wrong, and shortly the same build number software is released and you see a galore of complaints that XYZ update broke my phone whether it bricked, cause reception issues, or something along those regards.

Tidbits

sheen wrote:

It gives me pause. If Verizon isn't going to provide Windows Phone SW updates as promptly as its competitors, that's 1 more reason for taking your business elsewhere. If they cared about its Windows Phone customers, we would be running 8.1 now on our Icons.

You switch carriers and buy another Nokia... Nokia wins. You bought 2 devices from them... If you didn't buy the new device Nokia would have only made that initial sale and no other point in getting devices. Manufacturers want you to keep buying. That's how they make money.

Doesn't matter what OS or devices you are on you'll pay Verizon the same per month... There's honestly no real incentive for them to update or even have you buy multiple devices unless you have additional lines.

I have a couple of beta phones(not released yet and I can't say what they are) for T-Mobile, and Verizon. I pay the same before I even got these devices. My Nexus 5 I paid the same regardless what OS version that is on... I haven't been on contract and Verizon has been milking the subsidy fee bundled into their plans since they admitted they bundled it in a lawsuit(Reason why our ETF's have diminishing returns). There's actually more incentive to keep you, but not have you upgrade.

sheen

Tidbits, you missed the point(s). If you take your business to a Verizon competitor, than you no longer have to pay Verizon every month. Also the Verizon Icon is unlocked, so you don't need to by a new Nokia either.

Tidbits

Doesn't matter you bought 2 lumias Nokia wins. Then what happens when the next carrier doesn't update your phone you just bought? Buy another lumina for another competitor? Nokia is making money... AT&T for example is often bottom rung with Verizon when it comes to updates. Once in a while they'll be first and same with Verizon.

The point I was making manufacturers have far greater incentive to keep you buying. Why do you think they come up out with new devices every year?

t-val79

Ok.. here is a general question. Do you think as our smartphones are essentially computers that can also perform phone calls, that eventually the carrier may be completely taken out of the picture with regards to the software on the phone? For instance, I am typing this on a Lenovo laptop (not microsoft manufactured hardware) running Windows 8.1. Microsoft releases patches that I install once a month at a minimum. I guess as long as we have to continue to go to the phone company to buy our phones, this relationship will never exist? Are phones just sooo much more complex than PCs that we need carriers and hardware manufacturers to embed themselves between us and the OS maker?

unknown

This reply us only on the computer statement.

Think about how many update Tuesdays Microsoft has sent out? Hundreds? Thousands?

I find it an a front to have to be under the thumbs of Microsoft and their constant screw up patches over and over.

This kind of OS and other ennhansments is a farse. And think about it, do you really want to keep getting "Update Tuesdays" on your Windows Phones? I know I would not like it one bit.

I don't like these constant updates on Tuesdays I have multiple computers running Windows and these so called updates are updates to fix the last updates. We are as consumers just being led through the nose.

Its a crazy cycle!

B33

I thought some of the crazyness would go away moving away from Win. XP to 8.1 Big E but I'm seeing about the same pattern maybe worse, always something to keep you mental state on the rise and good morning too ya.. b

unknown

I was reading yesterday evening I think at PC World that there is now an outside vendor doing Windows XP updates. I believe the vendor was saying Microsoft may consider doing these security updates to the Windows XP devices.

From DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 (and less than 30 days later a Windows 8.1) and now a Windows 9.

The funny thing is many of these products were removing certain functions in one to then turn around and place them back in and assign them another name. Would or should you trust a company that keeps customers on a never ending update cycle? Yeah I am all for making money but when will this constant cycle end?

Good morning to you my friend!

yleetsbob

We are not at all promised or is any obligation guaranteed or implied in regard to updates from verizon. Most manufacturers provide promises but these are usually extended as a courtesy and a way to keep fanboys of their products. I have not had my flagship device very long and it was sold as a premium device that in every way competed with the latest galaxy or iphone offering. i switched from a htc droid dna. and after only a few months,I feel like I have made a huge 2 year MISTAKE. again I am and CANNOT be mad at Nokia, M$, nor Big Red, I am really mad at myself for my decision. even with busted microphones, the DNA was a much better device.

JimFortune

My wife has an at&t Nokia and they loaded 8.1 windows 2 weeks ago