Android Updates

[dpeco]

I like the premise of the Android OS, however cannot understand why the updates that Android does, is not immediately accessible to the phone companies that use them, and why it should be questioned by the companies that use them, if they should submit them to their users older phone models. In my opinion, |Verizon should be keeping us more informed of the updates, instead of us customers having to look on the net for answers, and we should be getting the updates as soon as possible. I see them using this as a way to make people buy new phones, (by not updating older versions) but people buy new phones more on the hardware issues, not the OS, i.e. better screens, keyboards, speed, i.e bells and whistles. We all, if the phone you have is capable, should get the latest updates. Even the dreaded Iphone....every one loves to bash, gets updates to their new OS if they have a new Iphone or the 1st Iphone. This is all of course my opinion, but I see Sprint is already getting ready to release the 2.1 update, where has verizon's stance been? Why not let us know their status, from Verizon itself?|

[Dangerous_Dave]

This forum is half full of people[edit] about little bugs and glitches, while the other half want to know why we're not getting our updates RIGHT NOW! And somewhere in the middle are a handful of people who realize that this is slightly more complicated than assembling a jigsaw puzzle. You can want it right, or you can want it now. But if you want it RIGHT NOW, you're probably going to end up disappointed. Personally, I try to keep my expectations realistic. I find I get disappointed alot less that way. Google, Motorola, HTC, and Verizon, all need to make sure all their toys play well together before unleashing them on the world. Making people wait for a good product always beats trying to fix and apologize for a troublesome one. D Dave

{please keep your posts courteous}

{word filter avoidance}

[Peaved]

Even companies like IBM announce availability dates ahead of time so that customers can plan. So, yes I want the update now and yes I want it right. And, yes I'd rather have it right rather than now. But, I'd like a future date for availability announced so I can plan device purchases based on the total bundle of goods and services. That means hardware, software, calling plans.  For example, if Droid and iPhone were available withinclose proximity to each other, then I might wait a few weeks to get an iPhone, or vice versa.

[dpeco]

Agree with Peaved.

Not saying I need it today, but someone from Verizon and Motorola should expalin what is going on. My Wife has the Eris and it still is stuck in 1.5 or 6 land. That is not right, especially since the Nexus (which is also a HTC phone) already has 2.1, so why would they not play together nice. 

I am not bashing any carrier, just seems that if you are going to claim the OS is open, then all carriers should strive to make it avail, that is all, and if not when it comes out, give some sort of date of when it may be. 

I am not by any means as tech savvy as you or most of you are. I just know that if I bought what is supposed to be the best smartphone out there, it should continue to get all the updates that come out, or why buy any of them?  Makes no sense to me.

[#5]

Companies don't usually announce "new and improved" things in advance because they don't want customers postponing their purchase.  That's just the way it works.

[dpeco]

Understand that, which was the reason for my original post.. Kind of bites, no?

[blackdognorth]

Aggree with peaved and depeco

It's not a matter if insisting that it happen fast (although from what I gather, the speculation has now been going on for months).  Rather, it's a matter of business. Of course it's complex reskinning Sense over a new Android version and the requirements of the carrier. 

However, you can be certain that at HTC, Google, and Verizon and a dozen other players, there are Project Managers who have to coordinate all of this and there are legal contracts.  With all of that, and the money on the line, schedules are on the wall and on a lot of computers and smartphones.  Those schedules stipulate deadlines. 

Things can slip a bit in real life, but there is no such thing as "whenever" in business.  The dates must be known in order to calculate workloads and meet contract-related delivery dates. (and thereby, profit goals)   It's also not economically feasible to just let a team go for weeks and months until they finally "get it right".  So knowing all that from the business end, it remains pretty clear that the single most important part of their business, the device and service customers, are deliberately being kept out of the loop and promised nothing.  I know it's better not to promise rather than do so and then fail to deliver, but to fail to provide any information to consumers at all is, at a minimum,  puzzling and makes the purchasing decisions a lot more difficult.

But, despite the increasing speed, depth and complexity of technology, nothing is truly simplified and really it all just gets more uncertain.  And it's probably not in our own metal self-interest nowadays to expect greater and greater satisfaction.

Still...

[Dangerous_Dave]

If your boss came to you with a difficult task that you weren't certain how long it would take, and demanded that you give him a firm time of completion, what would you do?? Pad your estimate heavily to cover yourself, or take a chance and then try to explain your way out of it when you couldn't meet that deadline? I believe Verizon and HTC have already chosen the former by promising the upgrade would be released first quarter of this year. That still leaves them two months by my calendar. I'll be as happy as everybody else when it lands (I hope), but browbeating them isn't going to make it happen any faster, so I don't.

D Dave

[fezzik]

Here is the thing.  The thing is here.  This is a rather complicated process complicated even more by recent ridiculousness.  Google began their demise with the Droid.  Sure great phone, sure major step in OS development but by making the release an exclusive release developed in coordination with Motorola, etc. instead of developing it and releasing it into the SDK and then Motorola putting in the phone or at least making the OS available to phone manufacturers and Motorola included it.  Then a lot of this would have been avoided.  Part of the problem is Google keeps participating in these exclusive release deals which delays everything for everyone.  There can't be a good working system where every big phone released comes with its own new version of the operating system.  Which they will be the only device running it for months at a time.  That is a terrible system that just introduces unnecessary problems into the mix. 

The second part of the problem is the operating system has to have specific patches applied to it in order to install the drivers for the phone.  Android in order to remain small enough to run on a very small footprint in your memory cannot be like windows or Mac or Linux operating systems available to consumers.  So it is up to the manufacturers to decide whether it is financially viable to put the work into adapting the Operating system to their phone.  Some things like simple drivers should just be a matter of applying the patch back on to the kernel but some other adaptations are a little more tricky so like in the Droid in order to keep the capability of using your docks the right way they have to apply that program to the new iteration.  That takes time and in some cases some development.  Also with phones the hardware is a little different and some of the processes and drivers are a little different than installing say your video card on your computer.

So here is how it is going/went down for the Droid update.  Google made a deal with HTC to release 2.1 on their Nexus 1 phone in order for it to be a super special release.  Motorola may or may not have known about the deal but found out about it and decided it would be worth the time, effort, and money to upgrade because of new features.  Google released 2.1 into the Software Development Kit so the source code is made available.  Motorola gets the source code and begins work on it.  Since we are talking about the Droid they didn't have to do a whole lot of adapting their user interface since they don't implement a custom user interface.  But they did have to redo the phone works and some of the drivers and special features so that they work the same.  Then they had to test it, and rework it, and test it again.  They did all this on a closed system and possible again in real world situations.  Then the adjustments had to be sent to Verizon who then ran their own tests and made sure the Verizon specific settings, programs, and apps were on there properly and it worked on their system to their satisfaction.  Then this issue of 3G problems with the Nexus 1 came out and there were questions as to whether it was hardware or software but it had to be straightened out.  In return a new patch came out to fix some of those issues and add a few new things for fun.  So that postponed things a little longer and some things had to be retooled. 

All this while the phone companies and the engineers that work on the phones and the software development are having to also work on new devices that will be coming out soon.  Those have deadlines that they are pushed to meet for various reasons both market and strategic.  So you have the busy bees working hard to develop new devices and update the old devices.  iPhone and Windows Mobile and Blackberry don't have these issues 2 of them because the devices are made by the same company that makes the software and one because updates come out so rarely that it really doesn't become much of an issue, besides Windows mobile has such a small market share at this point if it was a problem who would know.  Android is unique in that it is a: Open source which means it develops quickly both for survival and because there are so many people looking at the source coming up with ideas and thoughts that it can be pushed further and in more directions.  b: it is developed by a company that doesn't make hardware.  They provide software and it is up to manufacturers to update and support their products. Open source software develops quickly because it is open and because it has to in order to remain relevant.  The fact that anyone could take your source code adapt it and make it their own means that in order to stay ahead and maintain your status as the source for this product you have to come up with things before others do it and go in a direction that is more to the liking of the people you are targeting.

Google is doing their part rather well as far as updating the software.  The way Google is shooting themselves in the foot is getting into exclusive releases and all this political manuvering.  That is going to come back and bite them someday.  They should just stick with developing and pushing the software release it as usual and leave it up to the manufacturers to do with as they may.  Or they should make it available through a separate manufacturer distrobution so they can be working on it before the source is released to the public. 

By the way it is pheasible for a phone manufacturer to take the Android software any release they want and go a completely different direction with it and do their own thing with the Operating system and call it whatever they want as long as they give credit to Google for the original source code.  Essentially on computers Ubuntu is a good example of this.  Ubuntu is a derivative of Debian but they look nothing a like they opperate somewhat differently.  However, you can still install and Debian based app on an Ubuntu computer.  Also compare Ubuntu to Mepis or Knoppix which are also Debian based and you will see how different OSes that come from the same core can be.  If you think the difference between HTC phones with Sense and the Vanilla UI of Droid or the Blur UI of Motorola or Samsungs whatever weirdo UI they have makes a big deal imagine if they put a team together to develop an OS of their own using the source code from Android.  They could call it just about anything so long as somewhere they gave a nod to Google. 

Talk about getting complicated.

[Aximtreo]

If I substitute the words Windows Mobile 5, 6, 6.1, 6.5 and so on, this thread would look like what we went through over the past few years with PDA's and Smartphones in the WM arena. What most of us did then was to wait until someone cracked the OS and put out ROM's using the new OS plus extra capabilities. I would venture to guess that if Google keeps up this **bleep** with phones running multiple versions of Android, we will see many more ROM,s available. How do the Eris people feel about having a new phone that was introuduced about the same time as the Droid but running an OS that is two releases old?