Bionic / Razr Scam

[vzny1]

Shame on Verizon and Motorola for launching the Bionic after months of delay without disclosing the planned launch of what is essentially its replacement, the Razr, ~2 months later. 

The Bionic should have been cancelled as rumored instead of duping customers who would have gladly waited for the Razr instead. 

It would be one thing if another company quickly came out with a competitor to the Bionic, but for Motorola itself to do it to its own customers is inexcusable. 

Verizon shouldn't have facilitated this scam. 

Bionic owners should be allowed to upgrade to the Razr now.

[Wildman]

That what happens when you jump the gun on choosing a device, Its call marketing, you bought what you felt you wanted when it was released and no one made you pick what you bought. So I would say that you have no chance of getting them to change the device out for a new device.

This is why Verizon veiws the complaint of a device as a ploy to get a free upgrade to a newer device, because so many have this opinion and complain to get the upgrade device.

Good luck with that one.

[vzny1]

jumped the gun?  we all waited months and months after the original release date - how was that a hasty decision?

and no one would have made that decision had they known the Razr was already close to release

they just kept the Razr secret so they could dump the Bionics they already had on their hands cuz they knew no one would buy it otherwise

marketing? of course.  legal? yes.  ethical? hardly.

but i do agree with you on one point - verizon won't do anything to right this wrong

[gerio]

Wildman, of cours you are correct in the basic context of your point.

However, I have to say that with regard to the OP's point, I gotta agree a bit. The phone had been talked about for 8 months, the geek boy sites posted rumors and spyshots galore about it, all of the hands-on previews and reviews gushed on and on about how smooth and slick it was, how fast it was, and on and on ad nauseum. Then we finally get our hands on the Bionic and a substantial number of users are having these major issues (and I don't hold Verizon wholly responsible, except for the network gobbledygook going on). And I think I'm a fairly savvy guy, able to suss out a new product fairly thoroughly since we see, use, sell, install, maintain, and service new gear on a near-weekly basis. But boy, I missed it with the Bionic big time.

Now...that doesn't explain the large number of folks who are having good experiences with their Bionics. Who can? One of our clients, a church choir director, traded his iPhone 3S for one and swears he has had none of the issues I did. Same with one of my geek buddies at the Verizon store. Loves his Bionic, he got his the same day I got mine, we shared a Tbolt to activate them the next morning. But again, he sez he hasn't had the trouble I've had with mine. The day I finally gave up and went in to get the, uhh, THAT other phone, this same guy offered to trade his Bionic for mine to see what would happen. But I was so frazzled, I said no thanks and went on with my original plan...

I really don't know what to think of the whole Bionic situation. I really hope the rumored (and now that rumor has escalated to a longer time frame) update solves the issues for those that are having them.

I made my move (paid D E A R L Y for it, too) and not looking back, for the foreseeable future

Geri O

[Wildman]

I meant no disrespect but I simply don't see where the scam part comes in....   New devices are released regularly and many without any previous announcements so it falls under the concept "Buyer Beware" because you are free to pick what you preferred.

I decided to go with the Thunderbolt over the Bionic because I did not see the device meeting the hype, especially when they pulled the device for a totally revision, but that was just me and I am not upset with my decision because I thought it through before buying.

But when all is said and done I do not see how this is Verizons fault when dealing with OP because no one tied them to a wall and took the money from them for the device, they paid it freely and just because they dont like the device why would it be expected that the user gets updated to a newer device?

Each to their own opinion but I see nothing out of the normal with this situation to merit a scam..

[gerio]

I never sense any disrespect from your posts, Wildman, if anything, it wouldn't hurt my feelings for you to be more assertive at times, LOL.

I do agree about the scam part. At times, I'm a big conspiracy-theory guy, but I do NOT believe that this was a scam by VZW, Moto, or both to foist a bad phone on the unsuspecting public. Especially in Verizon's case, since they are the frontline for dealing with phone problems (and sometime I think it would do the phone makers some good to have to deal with customers and phone problems the way Verizon has to).

Geri O

[vidguy7]

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vzny1 wrote:

Shame on Verizon and Motorola for launching the Bionic after months of delay without disclosing the planned launch of what is essentially its replacement, the Razr, ~2 months later. 

The Bionic should have been cancelled as rumored instead of duping customers who would have gladly waited for the Razr instead. 

It would be one thing if another company quickly came out with a competitor to the Bionic, but for Motorola itself to do it to its own customers is inexcusable. 

Verizon shouldn't have facilitated this scam. 

Bionic owners should be allowed to upgrade to the Razr now.

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Keep in mind the one thing that will ALWAYS differentiate the Bionic from the Razr is the fact that a) the battery on the Bionic is replaceable and b) the battery on the Bionic can be changed to a heavy duty battery.

The Razr is sealed and will prove to have a worse battery life with no options for swapping. That is no small thing.

[vzny1]

first let me clarify that i love my Bionic, especially coming from the Eris

and maybe "scam" was too strong a word

and maybe the Razr will turn out to be a bust

but imagine this:

you go to your fave bagel store, and they sell u a bagel from the bin - you pay for it and bite in - it's ok, but tastes like yesterday's leftovers

right after you pay, they pull a fresh batch outta the oven and the customer behind you gets a hot fresh bagel for the same price you paid for your day-old one

wouldn't it bother you that they knew there was a hot fresh batch in the oven even as they took your money for the stale one?

next time you wanted a bagel, would you go back to the same place, or would you maybe go to the bagel store next door instead?

so next time i have a choice between a motorola and another brand, which will i choose?

as they say, a happy customer tells 1 person, but an unhappy customer tells 10 people

so here i am telling as many people as i can

[Tidbits]

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vzny1 wrote:

first let me clarify that i love my Bionic, especially coming from the Eris

and maybe "scam" was too strong a word

and maybe the Razr will turn out to be a bust

but imagine this:

you go to your fave bagel store, and they sell u a bagel from the bin - you pay for it and bite in - it's ok, but tastes like yesterday's leftovers

right after you pay, they pull a fresh batch outta the oven and the customer behind you gets a hot fresh bagel for the same price you paid for your day-old one

wouldn't it bother you that they knew there was a hot fresh batch in the oven even as they took your money for the stale one?

next time you wanted a bagel, would you go back to the same place, or would you maybe go to the bagel store next door instead?

so next time i have a choice between a motorola and another brand, which will i choose?

as they say, a happy customer tells 1 person, but an unhappy customer tells 10 people

so here i am telling as many people as i can

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One could say...  Why didn't you wait the extra 2 minutes for the fresh out of the oven bagel?  You know they'll be baking more right?  That's how it is with technology there will always be something better coming around the corner regardless if you knew or not something is coming out.

I still have my upgrade available, and I tend to buy devices outright.  I am currently waiting for the Galaxy Nexus, but chances are in January something better will be out.  Does it bother me? No because I made the choice for the Nexus and I bought it outright.  There still hasn't been a device I had to have that made me want to sign a 2 year agreement to get.

[#10]

Buy the best phone available when you NEED a phone, not before. Then, don't look back. Why does it matter that there is a new phone released soon after you bought your phone?

[B33]

Well what hurts in the Long run is the back Pocket Guys as some has the Money to swing on these big ticket items all the Time an others have to save like crazy just to get one. To be let down an then don't have the money to get another Phone Once there Past the 14 Day return policy an some will argu this is right an you get what you get.

But to me i think when you pay more there should be a longer Return policy Like up to 60 days its like this things just don't go wrong in 14 days. And Consumers that are new to Android or change into a different phone it takes more than 14 days for them to get use to it And not every one out there is a teckno Geek an can learn the ins an outs of a smart phone in 24 Hours. Heck it took me about 6 months to learn mine an when the New OS's came out it started all over again. 

So i can understand when a Customer gets upset when they shell out there hard earn Money to get something thats a piece of Junk an they have to use it till there Contract is up Or pay the Penalty of $300.00 to get out of it. I think the Penalty after 6 weeks of ownership should start to decrease down. But No it stays the same weather you want out of it a day after the 14th day or want out of it a day before your contract is up an to me thats plumb stupid!  But thats how these Companies get the Consumer by using such steep penalties.!   There's no way they can Weizell out of it. That is unless you have alott Money an penalty contracts are like Toilet paper.

And i mean no Disrespect to the Teckno Geeks: As some of us need you to help thats not that Technical. With our Cellphones. 

[Tidbits]

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B33 wrote:

Well what hurts in the Long run is the back Pocket Guys as some has the Money to swing on these big ticket items all the Time an others have to save like crazy just to get one. To be let down an then don't have the money to get another Phone Once there Past the 14 Day return policy an some will argu this is right an you get what you get.

But to me i think when you pay more there should be a longer Return policy Like up to 60 days its like this things don't just don't go wrong in 14 days. And Consumers that are new to Android or change into a different phone it takes more than 14 days for them to get use to it And not every one out there is a teckno Geek an can learn the ins an outs of a smart phone in 24 Hours. Heck it took me about 6 months to learn mine an when the New OS's came out it started all over again. 

So i can understand when a Customer gets upset when they shell out there hard earn Money to get something thats a piece of Junk an they have to use it till there Contract is up Or pay the Penalty of $300.00 to get out of it. I think the Penalty after 6 weeks of ownership should start to decrease down. But No it stays the same weather you want out of it a day after the 14th day or want out of it a day before your contract is up an to me thats plumb stupid!  But thats how these Companies get the Consumer by using such steep penalties.!   There's no way they can Weizell out of it. That is unless you have alott Money an penalty contracts are like Toilet paper.

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While I do agree with this somewhat...  There will always be those people that will always take advantage of this, and find some loophole to exploit.  Those are the people that tend to ruin the spirit of things.  T-Mobile for example over the years has always bent over backwards and yet they are losing customers faster than most carriers.  They got them shiny awards, and I see countless times someone makes something up just to get a new phone 4 months down the road when their devices are find and dandy. 

[B33]

Well Tidbits i geuss what i was trying to say for some it's so hard to get just one phone to have there hearts broken because of issues an struggles with there device. And then cant get out the contract because of the steep penalty. But what you said is also right. And i've read post in the past that stated that Verizon had a Great return Policy back some years ago an ones Abused it an thats why Verizon tightened there Belts. An many others Followed Suite and stiffened there policies as well.

An Guess what there another Wireless Company thats going to be coming on strong in Certain Areas It's Cox wireless an from what i've Took in from Talking to Reps out the Omaha Ne office there plans are going to be something els. A mixture of what Alltel had an Cingualar had. I think around here they'll be alott a people checking into it because the way Cox can bundle there stuff an adding Wireless to it an paying it all at once on one bill makes it that much easier. B33 

[droidsw]

Tidbits was COMPLETELY on the mark with the "latest and greatest" analogy. In the Android world, that only lasts a matter of weeks.

I know a slicker, faster Camaro SS is coming next year, but that played little in my decision to get one this year. And we aren't talking $300 here.

Apples and oranges, yes. But, as someone else said, buy the phone you need and KNOW it won't be latest and greatest for long. That's not a scam, but the way it is.

And speaking of Apples, I spoke to yet a few more co-workers that have switched to that phone. 6 months ago, these guys were crazy about their Androids (EVO, TB) and they flat got tired of the glitches, reboots, battery pulls, SD card issues........

Gerio's point is the mystery of Android. Why do some people have bad experiences?

I've wanted to throw my DX in the trash at times, but it's been a solid phone. Glitchy, but solid and I have no plans to make a change until I have to.

Then, the choice is getting an Android that will be "one-upped" almost before I get it activated, or an iphone that will go about a year before a newer "model".

[jsprake1]

With something that was supposed to rule all machines I do feel shafted, sorry. Im now sitting with my 3rd device the screen staying on and no Data for 10 minutes know.....THIRD DEVICE.

[silver6055]

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jsprake1 wrote:

With something that was supposed to rule all machines I do feel shafted, sorry. Im now sitting with my 3rd device the screen staying on and no Data for 10 minutes know.....THIRD DEVICE.

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This type of thread is going on in lots of different forums, and I really still don't get it!

First: "rule all machines" is Marketing.   It is cleary and literally untrue (doesn't rule your car, the nuclear reactor four states away, your oven etc) so why does anyone think it means anything than "This is our coolest phone, for now."  Anyone quoting this as a reason for feeling scammed seems, um, foolish.  And you should listen to my view because  I "rule the air" because I have a verizon phone.

Second: the REAL issue is that for many, the Bionic has a lot of issues, hopefully mainly being fixed in the update.   This is where whatever energy you wish to expend should be spent, pushing Verizon/Motorola to fix it (if that does anything).  It is totally irrelevent that Moto released another maybe better phone shortly after.  At the time, you wanted the Bionic and that is what you got.  Now it has to be made to work.

So, my feeling is that those who complain for "flagship" reasons really are those who wanted to have, and been known to have, the latest bestest coolest phone, and now feel cheated.   Tough.

[junuh]

Scam i dont think so. To strong of a word, I see good points on both sides and ill tell you why. My bionic that i went thru hell to get only has two isues horrible camera and no data only on wifi i have to do a battery pull to fix this. Why i say both sides have good points, 1(VZNY1...I see your point, i can see how you could be upset if you have your hopes up about a phone and have a hard time saving those $300 dollars for the upgrade and get a phone that doesnt do what you wanted to do.Some people dont have the money to spare, they expect to get what they paid for. This update thats coming out for the bionic better be a huge fix for this phone or it will cause more people to be upset. Maybe the bionic should not have come out.

2( The other side of the coin. I see why Verizon will never give people who complaint about the phone they just bought, a chance to upgrade to a newer phone thats coming out 2 months after. Its called business. Verizon is in it for profit. Dont ever think that a BILLION dollar company will ever do anything for you. Thats why they are number one. One guy in here said it right. Tmoblie will give you the chance to get the newer phone with out an upgrade so you can stay with them, and guess what they will be out of business in 2 years. Verizon used to have the best return pollicy. No disrespect but people like you made Verizon get smarter and take out all of the perks we had.

Remember i told you i went thru hell to get mine? Heres why. I opened 3 lines more on my account, 3 months ago. The day we were there we had chosen 2 of the 3 phones for sure 2 droid x2. The third phone was between the iphone 4 or the incredible 2. While we were making up our mind the Store rep. decided for us and put the droid inc2 on one of the lines, when we told him we wanted the iphone he couldnt take out the incredilble from the line and we had to come back the next day. After 4 hours in the store the exchange was done. A week thru the iphone i saw it was not the phone for me. Well on my 13 day the bionic was coming out, so i went back to the store to exchange it. The same rep who helped us the first time told me i couldnt exchange it any more cuz i had made the one time exchange from the incredible to the iphone, even though i never asked for the incredible. After another 3 hours in the store fighting with the manager, I left called customer service and after 2 days of one rep helping make the store realize that it was not my fault, they finally send me my droid bionic. You see how this was not my fault right?

 Heres why i told you my story. My neighbor had just passed his 14 day and the bionic came out. He went thru 3 droid x2 on purpose he would say they didnt work, he would make a scene in the stores and call customer service everyday all day long. He would tell us he was gonna have the bionic one way or another. Well one afternoon the Fedex truck showed up at his house with a BRAND NEW DROID BIONIC. No charge even exchange. He and other people like him are the reason why Verizon will never look out for us anymore. 

[#18]

1. Don't buy a smartphone if you have to scrimp and scrape to get it. You can 't afford it. Maybe you can't afford a cellphone at all. 2. Don't buy a new phone until it's been out at least 90 days and had at least one major software update. There are too many issues with new phones. 3. Don't buy a phone before you NEED a phone. 4. Don't buy a phone to boost your self-esteem. That's dumb. Nobody cares what phone you have. 5. Think about what you are doing before you sign a two-year contract for anything. Two years is a long time.

[droidsw]

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junuh wrote:

Remember i told you i went thru hell to get mine? Heres why. I opened 3 lines more on my account, 3 months ago. The day we were there we had chosen 2 of the 3 phones for sure 2 droid x2. The third phone was between the iphone 4 or the incredible 2. While we were making up our mind the Store rep. decided for us and put the droid inc2 on one of the lines, when we told him we wanted the iphone he couldnt take out the incredilble from the line and we had to come back the next day. After 4 hours in the store the exchange was done. A week thru the iphone i saw it was not the phone for me. Well on my 13 day the bionic was coming out, so i went back to the store to exchange it. The same rep who helped us the first time told me i couldnt exchange it any more cuz i had made the one time exchange from the incredible to the iphone, even though i never asked for the incredible. After another 3 hours in the store fighting with the manager, I left called customer service and after 2 days of one rep helping make the store realize that it was not my fault, they finally send me my droid bionic. You see how this was not my fault right?

 Heres why i told you my story. My neighbor had just passed his 14 day and the bionic came out. He went thru 3 droid x2 on purpose he would say they didnt work, he would make a scene in the stores and call customer service everyday all day long. He would tell us he was gonna have the bionic one way or another. Well one afternoon the Fedex truck showed up at his house with a BRAND NEW DROID BIONIC. No charge even exchange. He and other people like him are the reason why Verizon will never look out for us anymore.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

I also know someone that has attempted to "manipulate" the system to get a new phone. This person never even tried any troubleshooting. Not one reset. Nothing. He told CS he had. Long story short, VZW didn't cave and they shouldn't have. He paid to get what he wanted. Another example of why companies do what they do. There is a fine line between doing what is right for the company and what the customer wants.

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