General Frustration/ Venting Forum

matmatician · ‎10-26-2011

Well, I just wanted to express somewhere that VZ can see that I am extremely dissatisfied with their upgrade schedule. I've had my Droid Charge since about a week after it came out. I bought my fiancee the Moto Droid 2 Global, and her phone got GB before mine!! Is there any reason why one of Verizon's top phones (at least at the time of purchase) shouldn't be running an equally up to date version of Android?? My Droid 1 had Froyo for months before I even got my Charge.

Verizon, this is unacceptable. We pay top dollar for your service. I expect top quality. If I wanted out of date software, I would have gone to some pay as you go Wal-Mart plan.

Phatbowler · ‎10-26-2011

I switched from the Droid 2 Global because I won the Droid Charge from the contest on Droid Does, but even I am disappointed by the lack of general fixes of issues that many people are facing. Soon after the switch, I learned that the D2G was getting Gingerbread.

I am not sure if Verizon or Samsung is to blame. Samsung with their constant focus on newer phones. Verizon out for the almighty dollar.

The only logical solution is to wait for my plan to expire and get the iPhone, but by then Apple will probably be on iPhone 6 or 7.

demmo86rt · ‎10-26-2011

Ok, here we go again... NOBODY GUARANTEED YOU AN UPDATE. Your phone was sold to you "as is" with NO GUARANTEE OF AN UPDATE. The software is not "out of date" and will run probably any app in the market. Remember, Samsung is notoriously bad with updates, just ask anybody who owns a Fascinate and, the Charge is basically a Fascinate with LTE, they are both based off of the Galaxy S phones. Don't expect anybody from Verizon to hear your complaint in here, the only employees who come in here are moderators, and the answers they give really aren't any better than what you will get from calling customer service. Your best bet would be to email Verizon corporate, but I would expect you will just get a canned answer. Why? Cause, in case you missed it the first two times,,,, NOBODY GUARANTEED YOU AN UPDATE.

matmatician · ‎10-26-2011

True, but Samsung is the only one who seems to be having a major issue updating their handsets. You know its bad when Symbian phones have been updated more than an android handset. And as much as I'm complaining, I know that there is always the option to root my phone, which I am not opposed to doing. I just wish I could receice optimal service without having to break my contract with VZ. I realize I was never guarantted an update, but the same goes for Microsoft products as well. If they stopped producing updates, it would suck, but they would not be required to publish any more. I kind of view Android in the same way, where if they want to remain competetive, it is in their best interest it update and attempt to keep their customers happy.

Tidbits · ‎10-26-2011

matmatician wrote:
True, but Samsung is the only one who seems to be having a major issue updating their handsets. You know its bad when Symbian phones have been updated more than an android handset. And as much as I'm complaining, I know that there is always the option to root my phone, which I am not opposed to doing. I just wish I could receice optimal service without having to break my contract with VZ. I realize I was never guarantted an update, but the same goes for Microsoft products as well. If they stopped producing updates, it would suck, but they would not be required to publish any more. I kind of view Android in the same way, where if they want to remain competetive, it is in their best interest it update and attempt to keep their customers happy.

Here's the deal... No two devices are created equally with Android... There is 0 legacy support. Drivers, RIL, and kernels have to written everytime there is an update.

The huge difference for example... Microsoft, and Symbian you like to put it are based off the same architecture. You buy one phone it's the same as if you bought another. So the kernel, RIL, and drivers only need to be written once. This is why they have HARDWARE restrictions. Symbian gets updated more often due to their community developing the source and pushing out fixes more than Nokia does. Something that Google could take out of Nokia's playbook.

Apple on the other hand it's always the same. They do everything in house hardware and software. Since they dictate themselves what needs to be updated and how to be updated they are in complete control.

Android in the other hand... Google writes the source code for their DEVELOPER devices. When a manufacturer gets it they can chose what hardware they want to sell. For example ICS has been written for OMAP processors those should be the easiest to update. The drivers and such are already in place and more than likely a slight modification is needed to make sure it works. On the SGS2 which uses an Exynos processor it would require more work in order to bring ICS to those devices. More testing is also needed. Most rom cookers don't like to 1/2 "rearend" it and wait for source that has the drivers, kernel, and RIL already made for them instead of using the old one which often causes bugs and requires more troubleshooting. Cyanogen one of the most popular developing group has openly expressed they will do work on a devices that have the source already done.

At some point it doesn't matter the open source community is a win win for updates, and when the warranty expires the best chance for updates will be from them regardless if it is in endlife or not.

namstol · ‎10-26-2011

Most of this is good discussion that applies to my question as well. {please keep your posts courteous}

riffrafter · ‎10-26-2011

namstol wrote:
Most of this is good discussion that applies to my question as well. {please keep your posts courteous}

LMAO. I hate the VZW/Samsung apologists too. It's like - how dare you complain that you spent hundreds of dollars on a device/service that does NOT do what they said it would do, or does not keep up with the rest of the market. Suck it up!...you're a drone....you have no right to criticize...you just have to pay & shut up.

These boardsare for US...the paying customers. And we can say and post anything we **bleep** well please as long as it doesn't violate the T's & C's.

BTW - many of the Charge owners recently bought this device because it was touted by VZW as being one of their "flagship" state-of-art phones. And you don't think we have a right to **bleep** when we find out that we're 2 or more revisions behind in the OS, when we know for a fact that the update fixes many of the problems. The very LEAST VZW could do would be to give it's customers an ETA on when the update will be released.

For me - I have 6 days left in my 14 day return window for the Charge. If there's no update by Day 5, I'm returning it and getting a better supported phone. It;s MY money and I vote with my wallet.

rcschnoor · ‎10-26-2011

riffrafter wrote:
BTW - many of the Charge owners recently bought this device because it was touted by VZW as being one of their "flagship" state-of-art phones. And you don't think we have a right to **bleep** when we find out that we're 2 or more revisions behind in the OS, when we know for a fact that the update fixes many of the problems. The very LEAST VZW could do would be to give it's customers an ETA on when the update will be released.

For me - I have 6 days left in my 14 day return window for the Charge. If there's no update by Day 5, I'm returning it and getting a better supported phone. It;s MY money and I vote with my wallet.

So, in the product description, it says what OS the Charge comes with. You have had the phone for it seems 6 days now, and you are finding out NOW that this is not the most recent OS and you are complaining about it. How did you find out NOW that the Charge does not have the most recent OS? Any reason you couldn't have done this 7 days ago, BEFORE you purchased the phone?

You are correct, that it is your wallet and money, but you seem to have voted with your wallet and money 6 days ago that the older OS would be sufficient for you.

Yes you have every right to complain, but it seems your biggest complaint is that YOU did not do enough research prior to making your purchase 6 days ago. Then you would have known that the Charge did not have the most recent OS, which seems to be important to you.

Edit: sorry, I mean your purchase 8 days ago.

brutethunder · ‎10-26-2011

10-26-2011 08:03 AM

namstol wrote:
Most of this is good discussion that applies to my question as well. {please keep your posts courteous}

{please keep your posts courteous} I hate the VZW/Samsung apologists too. It's like - how dare you complain that you spent hundreds of dollars on a device/service that does NOT do what they said it would do, or does not keep up with the rest of the market. Suck it up!...you're a drone....you have no right to criticize...you just have to pay & shut up.

These boardsare for US...the paying customers. And we can say and post anything we **bleep** well please as long as it doesn't violate the T's & C's.

BTW - many of the Charge owners recently bought this device because it was touted by VZW as being one of their "flagship" state-of-art phones. And you don't think we have a right to **bleep** when we find out that we're 2 or more revisions behind in the OS, when we know for a fact that the update fixes many of the problems. The very LEAST VZW could do would be to give it's customers an ETA on when the update will be released.

For me - I have 6 days left in my 14 day return window for the Charge. If there's no update by Day 5, I'm returning it and getting a better supported phone. It;s MY money and I vote with my wallet.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Absolutely agree . Sad thing is namstol was 100% correct and he gets scoulded for not being courteous, when {please keep your posts courteous} or whoever is uncourteous, wrong, and so all mighty all the time. There are a couple people on these forums that should be kicked off. By the way {please keep your posts courteous} is very wrong. Verizon gives us all a one year warranty that covers software and hardware issues. That is our guarantee for updates and repairs. And the gingerbread update just happens to have the software fixes. And I see vzw tech support on these forums all the time, not just the monitors.

If I was {please keep your posts courteous} and read this I would realize how big of an **bleep** I was and straighten up or leave untill I learned how. As many posts this guy has, this will not change him or her.

Ps. Just have a little more patience this update will be worth the wait! We all know its close thats part of the tension evryone is experiencing. My half cent

PJNC284 · ‎10-26-2011

brutethunder wrote:
"By the way {please keep your posts courteous} is very wrong. Verizon gives us all a one year warranty that covers software and hardware issues. That is our guarantee for updates and repairs. And the gingerbread update just happens to have the software fixes. And I see vzw tech support on these forums all the time, not just the monitors."

Not quite. The warranty is to cover manufacturer defects like failed hardware of software crashing your phone. This however DOES NOT require Verizon to provide updates. Updates are a privilege, not a right. You have 14 days to use a device to determine if it has any deal breaking flaws. You keep it past then and you're accepting those flaws and the off-chance that and update may come to fix them. Not to mention the OP sounded more like he was jealous that his fiancee got an update and he didn't without commenting on any other issues he was having. As demmo86rt said, Samsung has the worst track record of updating their android devices in the US. After owning the Fascinate, I have no plans to buy another Samsung (unless it's a Nexus).

As for this thread, it's nothing new and you could probably find hundreds of them by using the search button. This is a PEER TO PEER forum, not somewhere to come and think that Verizon will answer you. Complaints are likely better directed at Twitter, Facebook or some other social media platform where it might actually reach someone important

brutethunder · ‎10-26-2011

How is that not quite. Hardware and software issues (crashes) same thing. How do we get this warranty. Through updates and repairs (replacements). It just so happens the major software issue fixes that are coming will have the gingerbread update with it.

You are right about the OP. I was assuming it was about having a better functioning phone. Most people wanting the gingerbread update are mainly looking for the important fixes that effect the function of the phone and the services we pay for. I could care less about gingerbread if we could just get the important fixes we have been waiting on. But its all coming as a package everyone calls Gingerbread update..

Tidbits · ‎10-26-2011

riffrafter wrote:
namstol wrote:
Most of this is good discussion that applies to my question as well. {please keep your posts courteous}
{please keep your posts courteous} I hate the VZW/Samsung apologists too. It's like - how dare you complain that you spent hundreds of dollars on a device/service that does NOT do what they said it would do, or does not keep up with the rest of the market. Suck it up!...you're a drone....you have no right to criticize...you just have to pay & shut up.
Actually you assume this. There's things you have to understand. Money makes the world go around. You cut their bottom line it affects that industry. Since people like you assume these kinds of things and complain while getting service you don't hurt their bottom line. Of course that might be too complicated for you. Blaming a SERVICE company for HARDWARE and SOFTWARE they DON'T make.
These boardsare for US...the paying customers. And we can say and post anything we **bleep** well please as long as it doesn't violate the T's & C's.
This makes me laugh... I could say a million things... This is a private forum. In any private forum there will always be rules.
BTW - many of the Charge owners recently bought this device because it was touted by VZW as being one of their "flagship" state-of-art phones. And you don't think we have a right to **bleep** when we find out that we're 2 or more revisions behind in the OS, when we know for a fact that the update fixes many of the problems. The very LEAST VZW could do would be to give it's customers an ETA on when the update will be released.
What 2 revisions? ICS doesn't count no one not even a developers device has it. and source isn't released. The numbers don't matter. just because there is an update for an OS doesn't mean the fixes applies to your device. Most of the bug fixes are intended for the Nexus S line which "could" work on other devices.
For me - I have 6 days left in my 14 day return window for the Charge. If there's no update by Day 5, I'm returning it and getting a better supported phone. It;s MY money and I vote with my wallet.
why wait? make sure it isn't android unless it's a nexus line.

joesheets · ‎11-15-2011

Just be thankful all you didn't get the iphone 4 I just got one and can't receive calls in my living room and it takes up to 5 fours for voicemail to come through!!! You guys are LUCKY!!!\

I may just sell my iphone on eBay and go back to my Samsung fascinate which does not have the battery capacity of the iphone (which is not noted for its battery life) and forget the iphone completely!!!!

DharmaQueen · ‎11-17-2011

I have a Charge and while I think it's not bad, it is slower than I think it should be. And I DO want an upgrade... but I think there are problems with Gingerbread OS that are specific to this device.

If there weren't we would have had an OTA upgrade by now. As it is, I still see the Root crowd comparing problems in each leaked ROM. Sure the problems seem minor...but imagine if one of those ROMs went OTA and those "minor" problems were set loose on the general Droid Charge customers! Lots of expensive support calls, people.

I've been lurking all over the place, looking for what might be my next best phone. I kind of like the specs for the Samsung Galaxy Nexus.

My question is: Galaxy Nexus is a Samsung device. I know it has ICS, which will be new for about 15 minutes (LOL). And I know it's produced for Google. BUT OS fixes, upgrades, etc. might be just as bogged-down as those for any other Samsung product, right? Why do you think that device going to be better?

Thanks.

Martha

Dalite · ‎11-18-2011

quote:

Actually you assume this. There's things you have to understand. Money makes the world go around. You cut their bottom line it affects that industry. Since people like you assume these kinds of things and complain while getting service you don't hurt their bottom line. Of course that might be too complicated for you. Blaming a SERVICE company for HARDWARE and SOFTWARE they DON'T make.

That is an argument that is often given, and shows a total disregard for reality.

The phone is made to perform a number of other duties, besides receiving calls. It is, by design, electronically, and assembly able to perform all it was made to do when it leaves the manufacturer.

Then the carrier gets it, and decides what the minimum daily requirement is, then has the software developer eliminate the other features so that they can be sold a-la-carte after point of purchase.to have them activated. Many features that were built into the phones are never even made available.

The problem is, when the carrier dictates restriction of the operating system to neuter a completely working platform by limiting the product's functionallity, "stuff" happens.

Many times, the updates are more like toilet paper to clean up the "Stuff" than they are enhancements, as the phone was designed to do what it does properly, and the updates are more to correct the carriers slip of the scapel when limiting control of the operating system for fun and profit.

The "service company" you refer to does more to limit the functionality of the device so they can charge extra for the features that they neuter from the functionality via software. The fact that they create "Stuff" from their desire for the "Bottom :ine" requires the toilet paper that the updates are made from.

Once again, in short statements... The phone is made to perform..... The carrier limits performance... When the carrier has the software modified to limit functionality, stuff happens..... The phone is hardware; the manufactirer created it to work..... The software functionality is dictated by the carrier's concern for bottom line; at the expense of customer satisfaction.

You can throw all the condescention that you have in your vocabulary at posters that bring up these basic facts, but that will never change the truth.

I have had phones by Batlabs, LG, and HTC while being with Verizon for the past decade and a half. Each had the funcrtionality restricted. Whether it was RSS, BitPim, or good old SSH, it takes only a moment to look under the hood and confirm this.

That is fine, and it is the truth.. It is what it is. Trying to paint that pig as a moral victory; not so much......

And most unfortunately, many folks never were taught about morals, integrity and pride, so the shortcomings are accepted as the norm, and anyone that wants to get what the unit was designed for is "unreasonable".

Nice Try........

rcschnoor · ‎11-18-2011

Dalite wrote:
Then the carrier gets it, and decides what the minimum daily requirement is, then has the software developer eliminate the other features so that they can be sold a-la-carte after point of purchase.to have them activated. Many features that were built into the phones are never even made available.

The problem is, when the carrier dictates restriction of the operating system to neuter a completely working platform by limiting the product's functionallity, "stuff" happens.

Many times, the updates are more like toilet paper to clean up the "Stuff" than they are enhancements, as the phone was designed to do what it does properly, and the updates are more to correct the carriers slip of the scapel when limiting control of the operating system for fun and profit.

The "service company" you refer to does more to limit the functionality of the device so they can charge extra for the features that they neuter from the functionality via software. The fact that they create "Stuff" from their desire for the "Bottom :ine" requires the toilet paper that the updates are made from.

Once again, in short statements... The phone is made to perform..... The carrier limits performance... When the carrier has the software modified to limit functionality, stuff happens..... The phone is hardware; the manufactirer created it to work..... The software functionality is dictated by the carrier's concern for bottom line; at the expense of customer satisfaction.

There are some valid points to what you have here. But there are also some things that are left out.

Yes, the manufacturers put a lot of things on a phone to which the service provider may limit the use. The manufacturers put these features in the phone at a small cost, but utilizing these features does not necessarily have a small cost.

The COST of providing the service for these features does not fall on the manufacturer. The COST of providing the infrastructure so that this service can be provided does not fall on the manufacturer. The COST of expanding the available bandwidth that comes with more and more devices being able to utilize the service does not fall on the manufacturer. All of these COSTS fall on the service provider. Regardless what it may cost the service provider to actually provide these services, the manufacturer can ALWAYS say, "we gave you the funtionality, it is not our fault that the service provider does not allow you to use the function."

There are many reasons why the service provider MAY limit the functionality of the phone, one of them obviously being the company's bottom line. Another very valid reason why service providers MAY limit the functionality of a phone is by enabling ALL of the functionality of a phone, they may very well have to price their service where the vast majority of consumers would not be able to afford the service.

Think of car manufacturers. They give you cars that have the ability to achieve speeds MUCH greater than what is allowed on public roads. The government restricts the speed that you can drive these cars on public roads. Why? Because the roads are not able(or designed) to handle these speeds at the level on congestion that would transpire if there were no restrictions.

Roads CAN be constructed to alleviate the congestion(make wider roads) and higher speeds(make banked curves) but the cost would be prohibitive. Therefore, the government chooses to restrict speeds and/or congestion on these roads.

You may say "but this is the government and they still provide better roads than Verizon provides a network.

Funny thing about the government, though, is that they can tax people who do not use the roads in order to help pay for the roads. The same cannot be said for Verizon. Verizon cannot charge you if you are not a Verizon customer.

Dalite · ‎11-18-2011

...

Duplicate post... dupe content deleted........

ocean_pilot · ‎11-18-2011

Dalite wrote:
quote:
Actually you assume this. There's things you have to understand. Money makes the world go around. You cut their bottom line it affects that industry. Since people like you assume these kinds of things and complain while getting service you don't hurt their bottom line. Of course that might be too complicated for you. Blaming a SERVICE company for HARDWARE and SOFTWARE they DON'T make.

That is an argument that is often given, and shows a total disregard for reality.

The phone is made to perform a number of other duties, besides receiving calls. It is, by design, electronically, and assembly able to perform all it was made to do when it leaves the manufacturer.

Then the carrier gets it, and decides what the minimum daily requirement is, then has the software developer eliminate the other features so that they can be sold a-la-carte after point of purchase.to have them activated. Many features that were built into the phones are never even made available.

The problem is, when the carrier dictates restriction of the operating system to neuter a completely working platform by limiting the product's functionallity, "stuff" happens.

Many times, the updates are more like toilet paper to clean up the "Stuff" than they are enhancements, as the phone was designed to do what it does properly, and the updates are more to correct the carriers slip of the scapel when limiting control of the operating system for fun and profit.

The "service company" you refer to does more to limit the functionality of the device so they can charge extra for the features that they neuter from the functionality via software. The fact that they create "Stuff" from their desire for the "Bottom :ine" requires the toilet paper that the updates are made from.

Once again, in short statements... The phone is made to perform..... The carrier limits performance... When the carrier has the software modified to limit functionality, stuff happens..... The phone is hardware; the manufactirer created it to work..... The software functionality is dictated by the carrier's concern for bottom line; at the expense of customer satisfaction.

You can throw all the condescention that you have in your vocabulary at posters that bring up these basic facts, but that will never change the truth.

I have had phones by Batlabs, LG, and HTC while being with Verizon for the past decade and a half. Each had the funcrtionality restricted. Whether it was RSS, BitPim, or good old SSH, it takes only a moment to look under the hood and confirm this.

That is fine, and it is the truth.. It is what it is. Trying to paint that pig as a moral victory; not so much......

And most unfortunately, many folks never were taught about morals, integrity and pride, so the shortcomings are accepted as the norm, and anyone that wants to get what the unit was designed for is "unreasonable".

Nice Try........

I just happened to see your comment as I was checking on something else problematic. I usually don't jump into the middle of this kind of thread but I must salute you for throwing it on the wall. I needs to be said many times over. Telecomm ranks right up their with Congress on principles and ethics.

They would be far better selecting good products to offer and taking ownership of what the sell rather than offering a bunch of junk and having the customer need to fend for himself afterwards.

Actually, Ivan what's his name should spend more time on this forum himself instead of paying stockholder money to hear platitudes about how great the company is.

Kudos

ham73 · ‎11-21-2011

Purchased a Samsung Charge from local Verizon store 6 months ago.

Last month purchased a 2012 Toyota Camry. The Charge will not work with Toyota Entune.

Many conversations with Verizon, Samsung and Toyota. No satisfaction from any of them .

Some Charge forums have said Charge has Bluetooth connectivity problems with many devices including car phones.

Entune suggested trying another phone. Used a Motorola Electrify on U.S. Cellular and it works fine.

Talked to Verizon about another phone and their only suggestion was for me to purchased an obsolete refurbished phone from them. Rep said if I did not like that I was welcome to change carriers. Guess I will do just that and bite the bullet on the cancellation charge

JerryF · ‎10-26-2011

Hey folks,

How about this idea???

I wonder if this is even possible. Go to your VZ store and have then completely re-install the current version of the FROYO 2.2.1 software plus the latest Baseband Version i510.06 V.ee4 and Kernel version 22.6.32.9. (build number SCH-I510.EE4).

Have them do a MANUAL install and NOT an Over The Air (OTA) install. Manual installs work MUCH better than OTA installs.

Maybe the original install of the software into your phone was faulty. Believe me it does happen.

It's worth a try and it's better than being upset!!! And furthermore it will not hurt your warranty.

Go for it and please let us know the results.

JerryF

PS- I have always thought that possibly some original software installs to Charge phones were faulty from the Get-Go.

riffrafter · ‎10-26-2011

JerryF wrote:
Hey folks,

How about this idea???

I wonder if this is even possible. Go to your VZ store and have then completely re-install the current version of the FROYO 2.2.1 software plus the latest Baseband Version i510.06 V.ee4 and Kernel version 22.6.32.9. (build number SCH-I510.EE4).

Have them do a MANUAL install and NOT an Over The Air (OTA) install. Manual installs work MUCH better than OTA installs.

Maybe the original install of the software into your phone was faulty. Believe me it does happen.

It's worth a try and it's better than being upset!!! And furthermore it will not hurt your warranty.

Go for it and please let us know the results.

JerryF

PS- I have always thought that possibly some original software installs to Charge phones were faulty from the Get-Go.

Might be worth a try.

WIll I lose all of my data and apps in the process? I have no idea exactly what this phone actually backs up when it does it's backup sync at night...

Discussions

Mobile

5G / LTE Home Internet

Fios

Military

Accessories

Entertainment

Level Up

Help

Tutorials

Archives

General Frustration/ Venting Forum

Browse discussions within categories

Add thoughts to the community