Horrible mess of a phone

[benzojones]

Bluetooth issues.

Connectivity issues.

Battery drains like a race horse.

Had one that overheated (WOULDA BEEN A GOOD HANDWARMER IN THE WINTER)

Hoping that the upgrade (if it ever comes) helps it, but I believe I may be stuck with a piece of junk for 2 years.

15 years with Verizon and this is how i'm repaid... ugh.

(and I paid full boat for the phone to top it off)

[Wildman]

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benzojones wrote:

Bluetooth issues.

Hoping that the upgrade (if it ever comes) helps it, but I believe I may be stuck with a piece of junk for 2 years.

15 years with Verizon and this is how i'm repaid... ugh.

(and I paid full boat for the phone to top it off)

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I feel your pain but you do realize that Verizon did not make the device or picked the device that you decided to buy...  I understand that a defective device can be a pain but you have to take every thing in perspective....  Nothing is perfect.

[Davidoo]

Wildman, I have to respectfully disagree with your argument of Verizon selling a phone then when it has problems or is not perfect as you mention then their hands are clean because they didn't make the device.  We have to pay our bill perfectly each month even though for most of us this phone doesn't work as promised.  Do you really think anyone will get far writing to Samsung?  I had an issue with a widget when I got the phone (a problem I later solved myself) and wrote to Samsung on their web contact form.  Guess what they said?  "We only supply the phones to Verizon Wireless....for any service or issues you must go to them for support."

If I go to Best Buy and bring home a brand new Sony LCD TV and it is broken, or as a better analogy such as what is happening to our phones, the TV will only get half the channels it is supposed to get, I would, of course, take the TV back to Best Buy and I could get a full refund.  I'm certainly not going to try to find out where the Sony factory is and have them try to solve it.  And if I wanted to, Best Buy would give me a refund, or I could exchange it for another brand. 

Not so with Verizon.  I know you don't have to sign a contract, but the fact is most of us do.  Their response is "you signed a contract and it's yours for the 2 years.  We know there are issues and are working on it and we might get a software update or Gingerbread out that could fix it someday, but we don't have to tell you when it will come out, and maybe it never will." 

So, we have a phone that we paid the highest price Verizon has ever charged for a phone that......

--Doesn't get 4G service in a solidly red 4G area on their map.

--Drops to 3G, then 1X, then no data often, and whenever it wants.

--Doesn't support text messages on Sync (even though phones several years older like my old Env2 did)

--Has a front facing camera that can't be used by the most popular video software (Skype).

--Many times can't answer an incoming call because the green puzzle piece won't move properly to unlock the screen (this issue has a workaround of pressing the power on/off button twice to make the screen reappear then the puzzle can be moved to answer the call). 

--Many times phone freezes after using the camera with a flash. 

I'd say it is quite a bit less than perfect for as of this moment, still Verizon's highest priced phone. 

[WCMack]

This thread is bringing up several very good "meta-issues" raised by the Charge that really are applicable to any advanced smartphone Verizon markets, including:

• What is the purpose of this forum?
• Are we entitled to be dissatisfied with a very complex smartphone that does not perform certain functions well?
• What are our rights vis-a-vis Verizon and Samsung if we are not satisfied?
• How should Verizon and Samsung deal with our dissatisfactions as a matter of good business and customer service?

Each of these issues could spawn threads of their own, and I certainly am not going to try to give a definitive answer to any of them (I don't think there IS a definitive answer, since this is a community of people with differing views).  But here are my personal takes on each.

Purpose of this forum:  Complaining for the sake of complaining is OK, but the best use of this forum to me is to help others solve problems they are having with the Charge.  Volumes could be written (not by me, for sure) on why people sign up for these forums and how they use them, but that's my take.  It doesn't mean that Davidoo is wrong, or Wildman right.  It's just why I come here.

Do we deserve to be dissatisfied with the Charge: I am not overall dissatisfied with my Charge.  But I can understand those who complain loudly here about the problems they have.  It is an expensive phone, one that for a time was heavily marketed by Verizon, and should not have the problems that many people describe here (most of which fortunately I have not experienced).  But dissatisfaction is not an objective thing; it is a mixture of fact and emotion and expectations.  If I bought the Verizon hype about this phone, I would certainly expect it to do everything well, and to do more than any other smartphone in history.  When it doesn't, I am disappointed, angry, feel duped and betrayed.  On the other hand, if I expected it to be a complex tech product that might have bugs and weak points, and it generally worked OK, I wouldn't feel this way, even though I paid a lot for it.

What are our rights: I guess it's because I am a lawyer, but I have to say our rights as to Verizon and Samsung are pretty limited.  Because people are emotional about the problems they have with the phone, they don't want to accept this, or they ignore it in favor of the "do the right thing" approach.  Sometimes that may sound like whining, but I don't think it is.  Anyway, like it or not, you have the rights in the Verizon Customer Agreement and the Samsung warranty, and that's it.  Complaining on this forum (even in ALL CAPS) will not change that.  And good luck with a class action suit, as many have threatened or suggested.

Verizon/Samsung business practices: To me this is the toughest issue.  We paid lots of money for the Charge,  and most of us signed a 2-year contract with hefty exit fees.  We've been good customers.  So why are we being treated so poorly? (So goes the argument.)  I don't have an answer to this one myself.  Would I like Verizon to update the OS today...you bet!  If they don't should I HATE them?  Well, again, it's a matter of expectations and how I think of the phone and what I deserve as a user of the device.  Is it the perfect appliance that should do everything perfectly?  Or is it, like the early PCs, a complex product with a lot of promise but also a lot of bugs, that can be improved over time with software/firmware updates?  If the former, I would expect Verizon to leap to the rescue and fix anything and everything that I think is wrong.  If the latter, I see my relationship to Verizon as an ongoing technological process of improvement, with perfection possible but unlikely.

By either measure, I think Verizon has not risen to the challenge of dealing with this phone as a matter of good business practice.  Once it crossed the line of adding its own software to its phone, and marketing these devices as technological wonders that promised to do everything, Verizon went from being merely a distributor to being a technology company, more akin to Microsoft.  As such they have in my mind an obligation to constantly improve the products they market, even if on its release they have problems.  They should strive to better the customer experience and be more open about the problems and the next iteration of fixes.  I don't think they are doing that.  Verizon wants to be seen as a high-tech company, but it is acting more like a marketing company, focusing on new sales and pushing the next big thing (the Bionic is the latest, I guess) out to the market and not dedicating resources sufficient to deal with the problems that its current customers have.

[benzojones]

While I appreciate your "no one made you buy it" response -- I think that verizon should be held to the "no one made you sell it" standard as well.

My goal in complaining is to help anyone that might be considering this phone to know that there are issues.  I also wanted to add another voice to the growing number of voices experiencing issues.

I do also believe that the Bluetooth issues may present a serious safety hazard, and they probably should be addressed before anything else.  Complaining about a phone is one thing - someone dying because they were futzing around with bluetooth while driving is another.

Just give me what I paid for - that's all I ask - or give me a phone that works (according to the noted specs).

[WCMack]

Dear benzojones,

If Verizon followed that standard - which I assume means that they would not sell any phone that was not completely free of glitches and problems - there would be very few phones to sell. Before the Charge I had a brand-new Droid X2, which was a very nice phone except for one feature, the music player. You may not think that's important, but I did, and it certainly made the phone less than "perfect" for me, even though it seemed very competent doing the core things a smart phone should do.

If you scan the forums for other smartphones on this site, you will see problems there too. I don't think any smartphone out today is completely free of problems, or works exactly like everyone would like it to.

I don't mean to ignore your concerns or treat them as trivial. They are not. I am sorry you feel the Charge is a "horrible mess". I have experienced some of the problems you mention, but I guess I take a different view as to how I should deal with them - not better, just different.

To me the real proof that Verizon is committed to keeping ALL its customers happy - not just the next customer to buy the latest phone - is for them to deal with these problems in a faster and more transparent way. Haven't seen that yet, but I hope to. Where I live, Verizon's is the only network that works well.

Lastly, while BT technology on the Charge may be buggy, that is no excuse for a user putting him/herself or others in danger trying to fix it or use it while driving. Get a wired headset; they're cheap and reliable. Or better yet, pull over to talk. Otherwise it seems you are forsaking safety for fashion or the latest techno fad.

[benzojones]

@wcmack - Reality is a funny thing - in a real world Verizon would thoroughly test these products.  While BT may be buggy, I never had any of these same problems with my Motorola Droid.  If you read these forums, I'm not the lone nutjob in the woods either.  TONS of folks are having issues with BT and there is no consistency to devices.  It's not the BT being buggy, it's Samsung/Verizon.

Do you really believe that people would buy a $400+ phone just to use a wired connection (which by the way doesn't work half the time for me) --and be happy about it?

I'd really like to see someone/anyone from Verizon/Samsung step up and announce how they are going to fix the issues.

[WCMack]

Dear benzojones,

I must not have explained myself clearly. Let me try one more time.

I agree with you that Bluetooth does not work well on the Charge. And I would like to see a fix come soon. I have a BT headset that I can't use because it won't stay paired with the Charge, and I have not had this problem with prior smartphones (Motorola, Blackberry). And I don't believe your are a nutjob, lone or otherwise.

But as the map says, "You are here". You have a phone that doesn't work and you paid a lot of money for it. You may not like it, but there your are. Now what? As I see it here are your choices:

-You can complain on this forum. You can YELL and SCREAM at Verizon/Samsung/me or whatever. In my view, this is a waste of time.

-You can exercise your rights under the Customer Agreement with Verizon and the warranty with Samsung. As I said above, these rights are somewhat limited, but you can work the system as hard as you want. This may get you somewhere, but it takes work and time and there is no assurance of success.

-You can tap the resources of this forum and other sites to make the phone work as best it can. This seems to me (but you may disagree) to be the best use of your time and energy.

-You can suck up the cost, ditch the Charge and get another smartphone, and perhaps change carriers. I think the Bionic is out today, maybe that one would be better. However, jumping into something new, especially the latest hot thing, you run the risk of moving from one part of the bleeding edge of technology to another.

Whatever you choose, I hope it works out.

[joshjtd]

You very much have a point.  Even though Verizon did not produce the phone, they sure do sell them.  Look at their site or listen to their hold ads while waiting to speak with someone.  If Verizon knows that the device they are pushing has as many bugs as this phone does, maybe they should steer customers away from it.  Better yet, pin the fault back on the manufacture and make them fix it so that your company doesn't take the black eye from selling a lack luster device.

[benzojones]

@wcmack - yes you are right.  I am hoping that the tapping of this forum will produce a result and action on verizon/Samsungs part to fix the issue.

I can tell you this much, I am not eating the cost quietly.  Frankly, would YOU trust the Bionic to be better knowing what you know now about the Charge?

I wouldn't.

[WCMack]

Dear benzojones,

I am sorry to say that I don't think this forum will result in Verizon/Samsung doing much of anything.  What I meant by "tapping this forum" was for you to perhaps get other Charge users to help you solve some of the problems you are having.  There are several threads on here about BT, connectivity, etc., and perhaps something there will help you solve the problems yourself.  Verizon employees to monitor this forum and try to help the best they can, but I think most of the issues forum members have get solved by the power of the experience of the other members, not Verizon and certainly not Samsung.

As to the Bionic, I don't really have an opinion.  I like Motorola as a phone-maker.  I feel their implementation of the Android OS is usually stable and functional.  The speed of the dual-core chip and the qHD screen are real plus marks for the Bionic.  But as I said above, just before I got the Charge, I bought a Motorola Droid X2.  It also had a speedy dual-core chip and qHD screen, and I really liked it.  But the music player was very buggy and annoying.  I tried another new X2 that the Verizon store allowed me to use, just to see if it was a faulty handset, but the music player on that one was worse!  So I traded in within the 14-day period and paid the restocking fee and got the Charge.

Bottom line, the life cycle for these phones is becoming shorter, as the phone-makers and carries compete more sharply to have the latest new thing.  The OS and the hardware are becoming more complicated and more and more functions are added to the phones, and the profusion of third-party apps just makes it more likely that conflicts and problems will arise.  That's why I don't think any smartphone you consider is perfect. 

Right now I will stick with the Charge.  I have too much time and $$ invested, and it is working well enough, that I can't see myself shelling out $600+ right now for a Bionic (or any other top-shelf smartphone).

[B33]

@benzoejones

Hey Ben i got one for ya i understand your situation beeing stuck with a problematic phone but what if you had a situation like my freind is in.

He bought a new Chevy Pickup Ext. Cab really pretty till he told me the lowdown First. He Finaced it for $38,000  His Payments is $ 650.00 a Month an get this it only gets if he's lucky 12 miles to the Gallon City an maybee 15 to 16 Highway He's not happy to with it but he's so upside down in his lown that he'll have for a few years probably till the Wheels fall off. So when your having a bad day with your charge think about what i wrote here. An yes this is a true story not made up. B33  

[#13]

Benzojones, thanks for your inquiry, and I understand your frustration over the issues you are having with your device. We have seen several of these issues reported and it appears the next software issue will address the bluetooth connection issues, losing 3G/4G, and poor battery life. For overheating, I have seen this mostly when using GPS, especially when using a car dock with the phone directly in the sun. That doesn't seem to be affecting every single device, so hopefully that is no longer occurring on your current device. Our product team is still working on the software release and we are hoping it will come soon. No final date on the update, but it will be pushed to your device once available. 

[benzojones]

Thank you for the response MarquiaF.  I appreciate that Verizon has acknowledged that there is an issue.

Hopefully that update will come sooner rather than later.

To update - my replacement device is not heating like the old one did, but to clarify - I don't use a car dock so the drain I think is related to the device in general.  It's kinda crazy, but I lug around 2 backup batteries.  While not the best solution, at least it helps me to get by.

I look forward to the update...  whenever it may come.

[benzojones]

Any update - I had 2 horrible lost calls over the weekenddue to the bluetooth cutting out mid conversation.

[DC5_K20Z1]

MarquiaF,

Does this mean that Samsung is finished with the build and the Verizon product team is just putting finishing touches on it now, then pushing it out OTA once complete?

[Trip360]

VERY GOOD QUESTION DC5! THATS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW AS WELL VZW.

[bluevolume]

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DC5_K20Z1 wrote:

MarquiaF,

Does this mean that Samsung is finished with the build and the Verizon product team is just putting finishing touches on it now, then pushing it out OTA once complete?

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Verizon doesn't modify the builds.  All they do is test it and give it thumbs up or thumbs down.  If its thumbs down, its back to Samsung to fix, then another full round of regression testing.

[DC5_K20Z1]

Yea if they can't give us an exact date when it will be pushed ota...it still would be nice to have some idea of where the build of gingerbread is for this phone officially. Nothing super detailed, but just a little hint of where it is currently.

[DC5_K20Z1]

I've only heard from some developers on droid forums that supposedly samsung is done with the gingerbread build and there is one build post ep1w from what I've heard. So I would hope verizon has it and is close to releasing it.

[benzojones]

Still no fix and radio silence from Verizon.

At least Netflix said they were sorry!