how to get copper phone line with FIOS internet

[boyarsky]

Up until last week, I had DSL and a copper land line.  I upgraded my internet (data) from DSL to FIOS Internet.  I was told by several people at Verizon that I could keep my copper land line and just upgrade the data.  FIOS Internet and copper phone worked for a couple hours on Friday afternoon (which proves it is possible).  Then Verizon turned off the DSL and the copper phone.  They switched me to FIOS phone against my will.

After much discussion with manty Verizon reps over the past few days, I've learned that they fall into several categories:

1. claiming I already have copper working (I don't) because my phone plan is a copper plan (Regional Essentials)
2. claiming it is impossible to have copper phone and FIOS at the same time
3. forwarding me to someone else

It sounds to me like Verizon doesn't want you to have copper working at the same time as FIOS Internet because they want you to use FIOS for everything.  I'm really frustrated with the inconsistency of responses.  And them telling me it is impossible to have both given that they were both physically working on Friday.

Any ideas on what I can do to pursue this?  I feel like Verizon wants me to rollback to DSL and give them less money as the alternative to keep my copper phone line!

[gs0b]

While I can't offer you a specific suggestion on how to get Verizon to provide both copper and FiOS service, I can ask why do you want that?

Fiber is superior to copper in all respects except one, and that's power.  Copper requires constant maintenance in the field to protect against corrosion.  It and attached equipment can be damaged by lightning and other electrical problems.

Yes, copper provides power to premise equipment while fiber doesn't.  However, this isn't as big a deal as it seems.  Both copper and fiber require power at the central office to work.  If CO power fails, both fail.  Copper can have amplifiers or line concentrators between the CO and the premise, which require power and a backup power source.

Fiber does require a backup battery on the premise, but nowhere else in the system.  If the normal battery in a FiOS ONT isn't big enough for your needs, you can add more battery power in the form of an external battery or UPS.  With FiOS, the only power is at the CO and the premise.  You control how much backup is on your premise.  If you're on a copper line with powered equipment, the line is only as reliable as the smallest battery.  You have no control over that.  Of course, if CO power fails both copper and fiber will stop working.

Now, couple that with the cold hard fact that Verizon is trying to get rid of copper wherever they can and ask yourself if you really want to hang onto a technology that is under-supported and not as advanced.

Good Luck.

[boyarsky]

Yes, for extended service in a power outage.  The Central Office has a generator.  During power outages growing up, the phone always worked in a power outage, even the long ones.  During the two hurricanes we had in NYC over the past few years, copper worked.  And the power outages due to Sandy were WAY longer than the 8 hours Verizon tells you their battery backup gives you.

I realize copper won't be around forever.  But it worked a couple days ago so it's not like it doesn't exist right now.   I resent that Verizon told me I could have my desired configuration and is now making it as difficult as possible to make it happen. If it wasn't a choice, i should have been told that up front and been able to make an informed decision.

[boyarsky]

I've declared defeat.  Verizon mailed me one free backup battery in exchange for all my complaining.

[thetrain1]

I am having the same experience now and it is an absolute nightmare.  I've talked to over 20 people at V erizon so far without resolution.  I am in earthquake country and, like the users above, had an experience where copper worked when nothing else did.  It's a safety issue.  And when I got 15/5 Fios internet, multiple agents told me I could keep copper.  Of course they disconnected it.

Now, I want to rollback to what I had - I am in my cancellation period - but they wont give me the copper back.  Hours and hours of time on the phone, I am reaching my wits end - but I am going to keep fighting.  30 more minutes tto write a letter to the state boards, CEO of Verizon, Governor of CA and anyone else I can think of.  Again this is simply about Verizon delivering what they promised - not what is convenient or cost effective for THEM.

If I dont get the copper back, then there's no point in being with Verizon, I never want to speak to them again.  We'll cancel everything and stick with exisitng interent connection, and get IP phones.

[LawrenceC]

Hi thetrain,

Your issue has been escalated to a Verizon agent. Before the agent can begin assisting you, they will need to collect further information from you. Please go to your profile page for the forum and look at the top of the middle column where you will find an area titled "My Support Cases". You can reach your profile page by clicking on your name beside your post, or at the top left of this page underneath the title of the board.

Under "My Support Cases" you will find a link to the private board where you and the agent may exchange information. This should be checked on a frequent basis, as the agent may be waiting for information from you before they can proceed with any actions. To ensure you know when they have responded to you, at the top of your support case there is a drop down menu for support case options. Open that and choose "subscribe". Please keep all correspondence regarding your issue in the private support portal.

[Verizon_Support]

Hello thetrain,

Unfortunately due to non response we will close the private thread. If you still need help with getting in contact with the Specialist or ever need anything else, please let us know in a new public thread.

Thank you,
-Jeramy

[thetrain1]

People travel ... pretty quick closure on the post.  Plus I left several messages and gave Verizon employees every chance to respond.  And ... crickets.

No response from anyone at Verizon.  I have now been without a dial done for over 3 weeks.  Help me cancel the service, I'm going to get an IP phone.  And file a complaint with the PUC or whatever the the appropriate body is.

[thetrain1]

From 12/27:

I am having the same experience now and it is an absolute nightmare. I've talked to over 20 people at V erizon so far without resolution. I am in earthquake country and, like the users above, had an experience where copper worked when nothing else did. It's a safety issue. And when I got 15/5 Fios internet, multiple agents told me I could keep copper. Of course they disconnected it.

Now, I want to rollback to what I had - I am in my cancellation period - but they wont give me the copper back. Hours and hours of time on the phone, I am reaching my wits end - but I am going to keep fighting. 30 more minutes tto write a letter to the state boards, CEO of Verizon, Governor of CA and anyone else I can think of. Again this is simply about Verizon delivering what they promised - not what is convenient or cost effective for THEM.

If I dont get the copper back, then there's no point in being with Verizon, I never want to speak to them again. We'll cancel everything and stick with exisitng interent connection, and get IP phones.

[ramsey76]

Have you contacted the state PUC

If no, please contact them and file a complaint

Also let your local state reps know

Last I checked Verizon local service was regulated

[thetrain1]

I have filed a complaint.  Will further escalate to state reps later this week if nothing changes.  Thanks.

[Verizon_Support]

thetrain,

Glad we were able to get the correct party involved to look into your request. Due to you no longer responding, we have closed your private support thread. Feel free to make a new post anytime you need some help.

- Jose_VZ

[ramsey76]

My standard response is to file a complaint state public utilities commission .   Many state PUC's  have stand complaint forms  on their website

Second send a copy to your local state senator and your state representative

if you feeling like wasting your time you can write to Verizon senior management.   I would recommend writing to the State President

Do not give Verizon the option they to state they had no complaints on your topic

[DreadedCustomer]

In a nutshell, they lie...

Once FIOS is established in your neighborhood. They do everything in their power to remove all landlines including removing the bundling option when you go to renew your contract, letting the lines degrade to the point that you have no choice, etc.

I have a copper line, FIOS internet, and two cell phones on one bill. I was told by an agent last month that she could extend the contract and keep the bundle that included the copper landline and FIOS internet.

Within 15 minutes the copper line goes dead.  I discover that I was now scheduled to be changed from the landline to FIOS phone. The change was made, it took three days of calls a complaint to the FCC and a lawyer was brought in that I'm not sure if she had anything to do with Verizon agreeing to switch me back on the third day or not.

I receive a call a week or so later where the FCC had finally contacted them and I told them it had been resolved.

Then, today, I discover my phone bill has gone from $200 to $230 even after dropping FIOS Quantum...

I am, now, researching other options including other companies...

[thetrain1]

2.5 weeks without a dial tone and counting.  I am talking to an individual at Verizon who is sincerely trying to help and says the copper will be brought back.  But I am days away from going the FCC-State board route.  At least 25 different conversations and counting, probably close to six hours on the phone.  If I cant get back what I had, have no reason to stay with any verizon service, will be going with an IP phone and TWC internet.

---

@DreadedCustomer wrote:

In a nutshell, they lie...

Once FIOS is established in your neighborhood. They do everything in their power to remove all landlines including removing the bundling option when you go to renew your contract, letting the lines degrade to the point that you have no choice, etc.

I have a copper line, FIOS internet, and two cell phones on one bill. I was told by an agent last month that she could extend the contract and keep the bundle that included the copper landline and FIOS internet.

Within 15 minutes the copper line goes dead.  I discover that I was now scheduled to be changed from the landline to FIOS phone. The change was made, it took three days of calls a complaint to the FCC and a lawyer was brought in that I'm not sure if she had anything to do with Verizon agreeing to switch me back on the third day or not.

I receive a call a week or so later where the FCC had finally contacted them and I told them it had been resolved.

Then, today, I discover my phone bill has gone from $200 to $230 even after dropping FIOS Quantum...

I am, now, researching other options including other companies...

---

[thetrain1]

I am posting here to open another support case.  It will be one month without a dial tone the end of this week.  No one is returning any calls.  If I can't have the copper returned then I want to cancel all my service.  Please respond.

[LawrenceC]

Hi thetrain,

We have reopened your private support case.  Please follow the instructions posted earlier in this thread to access your case.  Please keep all correspondence concerning your issue in the private support area.  Thanks.

[VZpain]

Sorry that you had to deal with this issue also.   As I am a seasoned veteran of dealing with this problem with Verizon,  I will share  my experience with you.  Where virtually all the problem stems from is Verizon's "System".  When any change is attempted to an existing copper-based account and Fios has been installed,  the "System" auto-configures a change for all services to Fios.  Most customer service reps cannot over-ride anything that the "System" auto-configures.

I spent over 3 weeks and over 200 man-hours  dealing with 12 (yes 12) Verizon personnel to restore copper based phone service and Fios internet service.  It actually required me to form two separate accounts so that they would not interact within Verizon's "System".   It was a battle of historic levels to resolve.

As people have noted,  yes Verizon does want to phase out copper based service as does ATT and they do the best they can to make it difficult  to keep it.    Eventually it will go away but it will be in the distant future  as permission to do so across the board also requires FCC involvement.

I did want to comment that I did install a Fios digital voice line on the Fios account in addition to my copper-based line to evaluate it's performance.   It has actually performed quite well and better that the first generation Fios FTTP phone service.  The only drawbacks so far are the required 10 digit dialing and 8 hour battery backup for power failures.  Although I have a work-around for the power failure issue and have unlimited power for my Fios in the event of a commercial power failure.

Hope things get sorted out for you.

[thetrain1]

By the time it was over I dealt with about 30 Verizon personnel.

Various of them acknowledged, understood and validated what I wanted to happen.

As you mentioned it is indeed their terrible system.  If you change your service its a one way street, water down the drain.  On this one I did put the toothpaste back in the tube.  

The only reason anything happend is because I filed a complaint with the State of CA,  and that was immediately kicked to the president of Verizon CA.  That one pushed it down to a manger - but interestingly, classified as a "PR" task or something like that - they actually had a term for it.  In other words, right to the bitter end, it was still all about Verizon - this got (mostly) resolved because I was a PR problem for THEM.  Not because they mirepresented, and then couldn't restore service when I cancelled withing the allotted period. Not because they were merely honoring any of what they set forth.  It ony happend because there was something in it for them.

The irony is - aparently there is a crapload of copper in this area tha still makes much money for them because of all the T1 and T3 lines running through companies around here.  The government should really force them to live up to the terms of the license and presumably the required maintenance on existing copper.  We had a 3.2 here last night that startled me a lot more than some of the past shakers, I must have been sitting on top of it.

Learnings - if you want to keep copper, simply don't go down the FIOS road no matter what anyone tells you.  And, if you do anyway and want to go back - don't try to work through the company in good faith.  It ain't gonna happen.  You'll meet some employees that truly do want to help you but can't, and even they'll end up making sideways cracks about how screwed up Verizon is.  Just skip the 5+ weeks of that and the immense frustration and substantial inconvenience - file a complaint.

[mobery]

I can say that I successfully got analog copper service with a FIOS video/internet account, but it took about 70 calls to them.  Yes, I spoke to 70 different people, some of which actually tried to help, but most of which transferred me, read me a script which was untrue (I was told that Fios phone is neither analog nor digital, among other silliness), sympathized, or lied to me, saying they would transfer me to someone who could help, but all i got is people trying to sell new orders for FIOS phone.  All this occurred probably 3-4 years ago, and I did get the copper service back, by a near miracle.  It took months.

Last week, however, things changed.  I switched my video service to another provider which offered the SEC network.  I was told repeatedly I could keep my internet and my analog copper phone service. I was told it would not affect my service.  I was told that several times.

Within an hour, my copper analog phone service went down, and i still do not have it back 2 days later.  Verizon turned it off, and the technician who came to my house said he could not reinstall it.  Customer service said I had received mailings which said I would be "forced" to get off the copper product, also untrue.  I was told the FCC allowed this.  Untrue.  They said it would not be restored.

So I am escalating this issue.  It will be interesting to see what it takes to get this service restored, which worked flawlessly all the time i had it, until I changed video providers.

[ElizabethS]

Hello mobery

Your issue has been escalated to a Verizon agent. Before the agent can begin assisting you, they will need to collect further information from you.Please go to your profile page for the forum, and look in the middle, right at the top where you will find an area titled "My Support Cases". You can reach your profile page by clicking on your name beside your post, or at the top left of this page underneath the title of the board.
Under “My Support Cases” you will find a link to the private board where you and the agent may exchange information. This should be checked on a frequent basis as the agent may be waiting for information from you before they can proceed with any actions. To ensure you know when they have responded to you, at the top of your support case there is a drop down menu for support case options. Open that and choose "subscribe".
Please keep all correspondence regarding your issue in the private support portal.