Need to consolidate phone lines - help with box
olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

I recently got a second line added to my service. In my outside phone box, there are two lines. The first has the original phone number and is connected to one half of the house. The second was switched to the new number and is connected to the other half of the house. I had to pay Verizon to switch the second line to the new number.

I no longer need the new number, but I need the second line to be connected to the original number. 

I have gone out to the phone box and connected the wires for the second line to the screws that have the original line/phone number (the same screws that have the original line - 2 wires/screw). I made sure that the same wire was connected to the same screw that it was connected to on the second line.

I could not get a dial tone out of the jack that has the second line.

Maybe this diagram will help:

x=screw: 1x=first line screw, 2x =secondary line screw

L=line: 1L = original number line, 2L = new number line.

2x          2x

   2x2L      2x2L

1x         1x

    1x1L     1x1L

That's how it is now.  I tried to do this:

2x         2x

    2x         2x

1x          1x

     1x1L2L       1x1L2L

But I didn't get a dial tone out of the second line.

I put it all back the way it was and it works fine.

Am I doing something wrong?  I hope my explanation made sense.

Thanks.

   

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1 Solution
prisaz
Legend

Why the installer put the termination blocks on line 3 & 4 is beyond me. It may have been that the telco wires were to short after the NID was mounted. But would make things unclear for some customers with only two lines, and phone number 1 being on line termination 4.

Try to remove wt/bl and bl from line 3 terminals, wt/bl is on dark green and blue on dark red.

Connect that wt/bl to line 4 light green, and blue to light red.

(Normally it is just green and red, the color variations are probably due to manufacturing)

This should put line 3 outgoing pair that runs into your house, on the line 4 phone number. Note that once this is done, the number on that was terminated on line three, will no longer be active inside your house, but those phones should be active on the number assigned to the line 4 terminations outside. If you want to test the number connected to line 4, plug a standard phone in the line 3 test jack outside, with only the line 3 door open, and the line 4 door closed. Dial line 4 number and see if you get a ring inside. Or use a cell phone to dial into the desired numbers..

Green & red - tip & ring.

Also close the doors to the terminations to test inside wiring and phones. Those covers that expose the test jacks also disconnect the outgoing screw terminals from the telco service. The telco service connections being behind the blocks feeding from the other side of the NID. safety and test disconnect.

Note the picture of this NID's cover document.

image

See the cover's copper terminals on the left side of the door shown on the NID picture below, they act as a disconnect when the door is open. Your NID may have a switch inside the termination block that is not visible when the door is open, or terminations in the door that are not visable in your picture. Yours looks like a plastic tab that may push the contacts closed when the termination door is closed, or connections in the door I cannot see in your photo. This safety allows testing with the house wiring disconnected when the door is open, thus allowing the customer to plug a phone into the jack, and test the connection without the house wiring causing issues. It also provides a safety for making connections when the door is open.

If a standard phone works plugged directly into the test jacks with this door open, and house phones do not when the door is closed, it is an internal in home wiring issue.

If a standard phone does not work when plugged into to the test jacks, it is a telco issue.

This NID looks to be the opposite of yours, but works on the same principle. Note the copper tabs on the door to the left. They make the connection between the telco and customer wiring. Like stated above, yours may have an internal switch that is pushed closed when the door is not open.

image

I hope this information helps. Sorry it took so long for me to post back after asking for a picture.

As an after thought if you have DSL Internet Service.

Also note that if you should have DSL Internet service on one of the lines, you will need additional filters on the phone jacks in use. Also the increase in the amount of house wiring on the single DSL line, could affect performance. If your DSL is on line 3, you will lose Internet service. You would need DSL on the phone number/line that you plan to keep, or have a seperate connection for your modem to line three if you plan on keeping your DSL on that line. Or have it switched to the number you plan to keep. This could be an issue or cause you complexities in the change to a single line.

Best Regards

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armond_in_nj1
Master - Level 1

@olorin12 wrote:

I recently got a second line added to my service ... there are two lines The first is connected to one half of the house ... The second was switched to the new number  is connected to the other half of the house...

 

... I need the second line to be connected to the original number ... 

... Maybe this diagram will help ... I didn't get a dial tone out of the second line ...

... I put it all back the way it was and it works fine ...

... Am I doing something wrong?  I hope my explanation made sense ... 

   


More information is required.  The diagrams don't provide sufficient detail.  For example, they show either the incoming (or the outgoing) wires for each line, but no indication which is which.  Additionally there must an incoming pair matched to an outgoing pair, and that's not clear in the diagram.

First, what type of service are you getting?  I.e., are these the old style POTS (or copper) lines?

Second, do you have Freedom Essentials, etc.?  Please specify and give as much detail as possible.

Third, do you still subscribe to both phone lines (i.e., are both lines still giving a dial tone in separate parts of the dwelling)?  Please provide details.

I will speculate on the problem.  It sounds like you are connecting two "live" phone lines together, and that simply will not work.  However based on your descriptions and diagrams, it's not possible to make useful suggestions.  Please comment on the issues I've listed, plus any other data that seems relevant.  As requested, photos will help very much.

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olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

image

Here's a picture of my box. Line 3 is the secondary line/second phone number. Line 4 is the primary line/phone number.

Edited to rotate image.

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olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

Sorry I forgot to add - afaik I do not have Freedom Essentials - just two ordinary lines.  

Both lines are live. Line 3 is the secondary phone #, that I don't need anymore, and Line 4 is the primary phone #.

It's all copper lines.

Line 3 is connected to jacks on one side of the house, line 4 on the other. All lines work.

I don't know what all that mess is under the lines.

Thank you!

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armond_in_nj1
Master - Level 1

 armond_in_nj wrote earlier:


... I will speculate on the problem.  It sounds like you are connecting two "live" phone lines together, and that simply will not work ... photos will help very much ... 


 olorin12 wrote:

... Both lines are live ... Line 3 is the secondary phone # ... Line 4 is the primary phone # ... Line 3 is connected to jacks on one side of the house, line 4 on the other. All lines work ...


Although I cannot view your photo directly in the Forums, I checked it on your profile page.  Based solely on the photo and the fact that both lines are "live," I continue to speculate that earlier wiring attempts resulted in your connecting two "live" phone  lines.  Although not particularly dangerous, this error could damage certain equipment on the network such as VoIP gear, DSL filters, alarm system components, etc., if they're in use.  Be advised.

Here's a recommended set of procedures that might get you going.  Remember that without physically examining the box, I cannot be 100% certain about your layout.  Nonetheless this is what I would try if this problem existed at my home.

Step 1.  Before doing anything else or disconnecting any wires, plug a regular telephone into each RJ11 jack (i.e., the regular phone jacks) visible in the Verizon Network Interface Device (NID).  Then call each number with your mobile to check operability.  Both numbers should work as designed based on the information you have so far provided.  If they do not, then one or the other is either wired incorrectly, or not in service.

Step 2.  Assuming both lines operated correctly in Step One, disconnect the blue wire and the blue/white wire from the green and red screw terminals in the Line Three terminal device.  Remember that these are "live" and there is a slight voltage across the wires, so be sure to avoid having the wires come in contact with each other or some other connections.  It's probably best to isolate or insulate these wires to prevent contact.

Step 3.  Using 22 gauge insulated wire (this is the size and quality that is used for all the wires coming into the NID that you can see)., connect the green terminal to the existing blue/white wire terminal in the Line Four terminal device.  Do the same with the red terminal, connecting it to the solid blue wire terminal in the Line four terminal device.  You can use a short piece of wire from inside the NID that is not in use, or any similar 22 gauge insulated wire available.  Old network cable wire is also suitable.

Step 4.  Now repeat the tests you did in Step 1, only this time dial the "primary" number each time you plug a phone into the RJ11 socket.  If my guess is correct, you will find that the phone rings properly, and that now all of your phone jacks on both sides of the house are connected to your "primary" phone.

BTW, if this doesn't work, you still have options.  However I'm not going to tell you what they are until you've (1) completed your homework, (2) handed inn the examination paper, and of course (3) paid my invoice (smile).

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olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

Armond,

I will try this at my earliest opportunity and let you know the results.

Thank you very much for your help.

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olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

Armond, I tried what you said, and undid and redid it several times.

It did not work Smiley Sad

I also tried to look through the forums and could not find an answer.

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prisaz
Legend

Why the installer put the termination blocks on line 3 & 4 is beyond me. It may have been that the telco wires were to short after the NID was mounted. But would make things unclear for some customers with only two lines, and phone number 1 being on line termination 4.

Try to remove wt/bl and bl from line 3 terminals, wt/bl is on dark green and blue on dark red.

Connect that wt/bl to line 4 light green, and blue to light red.

(Normally it is just green and red, the color variations are probably due to manufacturing)

This should put line 3 outgoing pair that runs into your house, on the line 4 phone number. Note that once this is done, the number on that was terminated on line three, will no longer be active inside your house, but those phones should be active on the number assigned to the line 4 terminations outside. If you want to test the number connected to line 4, plug a standard phone in the line 3 test jack outside, with only the line 3 door open, and the line 4 door closed. Dial line 4 number and see if you get a ring inside. Or use a cell phone to dial into the desired numbers..

Green & red - tip & ring.

Also close the doors to the terminations to test inside wiring and phones. Those covers that expose the test jacks also disconnect the outgoing screw terminals from the telco service. The telco service connections being behind the blocks feeding from the other side of the NID. safety and test disconnect.

Note the picture of this NID's cover document.

image

See the cover's copper terminals on the left side of the door shown on the NID picture below, they act as a disconnect when the door is open. Your NID may have a switch inside the termination block that is not visible when the door is open, or terminations in the door that are not visable in your picture. Yours looks like a plastic tab that may push the contacts closed when the termination door is closed, or connections in the door I cannot see in your photo. This safety allows testing with the house wiring disconnected when the door is open, thus allowing the customer to plug a phone into the jack, and test the connection without the house wiring causing issues. It also provides a safety for making connections when the door is open.

If a standard phone works plugged directly into the test jacks with this door open, and house phones do not when the door is closed, it is an internal in home wiring issue.

If a standard phone does not work when plugged into to the test jacks, it is a telco issue.

This NID looks to be the opposite of yours, but works on the same principle. Note the copper tabs on the door to the left. They make the connection between the telco and customer wiring. Like stated above, yours may have an internal switch that is pushed closed when the door is not open.

image

I hope this information helps. Sorry it took so long for me to post back after asking for a picture.

As an after thought if you have DSL Internet Service.

Also note that if you should have DSL Internet service on one of the lines, you will need additional filters on the phone jacks in use. Also the increase in the amount of house wiring on the single DSL line, could affect performance. If your DSL is on line 3, you will lose Internet service. You would need DSL on the phone number/line that you plan to keep, or have a seperate connection for your modem to line three if you plan on keeping your DSL on that line. Or have it switched to the number you plan to keep. This could be an issue or cause you complexities in the change to a single line.

Best Regards

olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

Thanks both of you for your help.

I have not had the opportunity to go back out to the box and try these solutions yet, but when I do I'll post back here and tell you how it went.

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olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

Prisaz' solution worked. I hooked the blue/white and blue wires from terminal 3 (second line) to the same screws on terminal 4 (first line), with two blue/white and two blue wires per screw.

I called a cell phone from the jack in my room that was previously on terminal 3 (second line) and it showed up as coming from the phone number on terminal 4 (first line).

The reason that did not work for me before was because the covers for the terminals were not closed when I tested them before - that was the missing piece of the puzzle. Thank you Armond and Prisaz for your help!!

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armond_in_nj1
Master - Level 1

Take another look at Post Number Five in this thread, where I indicate that each line must have an "incoming pair" (from the Telco) and an "outgoing pair" (to your home phone network).  I don't have a box like yours, so I am forced to continue to speculate.  However in all cases each line must have the pairs described, and they are not visible in your photo.  However they simply must be there somewhere.

What we are presumably looking at in your photo are the "outgoing pairs" that run to the rest of the house.  Elsewhere in the box, presumably under the flip-up terminals called "Line 3" and "Line 4," are the incoming pairs.  Figure out how to flip up the Line 3 device and disconnect the incoming wires, being careful as I described elsewhere.  This gets rid of the line you no longer want.  Incidentally, why have you not yet cancelled that line?

Once you have done the above, simply join the "outgoing pairs" in an appropriate manner so that your remaining incoming Telco line pair is wired in parallel to both sections of the home telephone wiring.

Other than my coming over for dinner and wiring it myself, I'm afraid that's about all I have to offer.  Also, you did not report the specific results of the phone testing I requested in the detailed Post Number Eight I wrote earlier.

olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

I forgot, I also tried this:

2x            2x

    2x             2x

1x2L         1x2L

     1x1L         1x1L

But it didn't work.

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prisaz
Legend

Can you post a picture?

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olorin12
Enthusiast - Level 2

sure I'll do that tomorrow.

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