Disconnect every 60 mins

[teele]

I have had FIOS for more than a year with solid service. However the past 4-5 weeks I get periodic disconnects that happen every 60 minutes. For example my router log shows:

[Internet connected] IP address: {edited for privacy}, Monday, Jan 25,2021 09:23:45

[Internet connected] IP address: {edited for privacy}, Monday, Jan 25,2021 08:23:41

[Internet connected] IP address: {edited for privacy}, Monday, Jan 25,2021 07:22:58

Nothing has changes in my setup. Since I, like so many people, work from home this is a major pain, as these interruptions last 10-30 secs and often happen in in the middle of a video call. Again, no configuration has changed, this just started happening.

[Cang_Household]

Sorry, you can't show your public IP address here.

Where are you seeing this log? LAN DHCP or WAN DHCP log?

[teele]

Its from my Netgear Router, this is showing that the WAN IP is re-acquired every 60 mins.

[teele]

This morning just saw another explicit disconnect, doesn't look like DHCP timeout:

[Internet connected] IP address: x.x.x.x, Tuesday, Jan 26,2021 05:17:20
[Internet disconnected] Tuesday, Jan 26,2021 05:17:18
[Time synchronized with NTP server] Tuesday, Jan 26,2021 05:03:35
[Internet connected] IP address: x.x.x.x, Tuesday, Jan 26,2021 05:03:34
[Time synchronized with NTP server] Tuesday, Jan 26,2021 04:03:35
[Internet connected] IP address: x.x.x.x, Tuesday, Jan 26,2021 04:03:34

The hourly disconnects happened at 3 mins after the hour. Then there was a disconnect followed by re-connect at 17 mins after the hour.

This is getting really irritating. These 2 sec disconnects kill any online meeting and the reconnect is not instantaneous.

[Cang_Household]

Verizon layer 3 does re-new the lease every hour. Not sure why the Netgear is taking longer than usual to re-new the WAN IP.

Besides Internet connection/disconnection, does Netgear offer other logs? Such as layer 2 statuses? Internet connection/disconnection seems to be a layer 3 status.

When the lease is about to expire, Verizon layer 3 (Juniper Networks) asks Netgear whether the WAN IP is still necessary for leasing, Netgear should reply yes. It looks it does not promptly answer Verizon layer 3, so Verizon layer 3 has no choice but to revoke the lease. Can you contact Netgear support as well?

[teele]

I'm doubtful this is a Netgear issue. This system has been in place for >1 year, with no changes, and only the past few weeks has been having these disconnects. Why would the router start suddenly showing this behavior?

[Cang_Household]

It is unlikely that this is a Verizon layer 3 issue. The service routers at your central office relays and assigns your router a WAN IP. A service router supports hundreds if not thousands customers. If the service router is at fault, your entire neighborhood will have the same issue.

What model is your Netgear router? A G3100/G1100 and other commercial-grade routers typically log DHCP transaction and WAN connection status. Not sure whether your Netgear also logs these.

[jrmonta]

I'm having what may be the same problem.  I use my own router connected directly to the Verizon ONT and have been doing so since February 2020 without a problem.  The router is a Netgear Nighthawk R7400.  Sometime over the past month my internet connection started dropping out.  The connection between my devices and my router is fine when this happens.  They continue to have wifi and I can access the router admin pages.  But there is no connection to the internet... the Verizon backend has decided to disconnect me and I can't figure out why.  I've rebooted the router and ONT and the problem continues to occur.  It doesn't happen reliably every 60mins... or even every day.  But on days that it does occur, it happens repeatedly like today.

I called tech support several weeks ago and they could not solve the problem.  Of course it didn't occur while I was on the phone but he did see the repeated reboots that morning.  They sent a tech to my house about a week ago and he checked all of the fiber cable connections.  He also replaced my ONT and we replaced the network cable between the ONT and the router.  I thought I was good until it happened again this morning.

This morning after finding this post, instead of rebooting the devices, I've been logging into the router to release the IP and then renew it.  The IP assigned by Verizon doesn't change but it restores my connection.  The problem is that this "fix" is also only momentary just like the reboots. This last time the connection only lasted for about 20mins. Unfortunately, this router doesn't allow me to change the DHCP lease time on the internet connection (it is set for 2hours).  And the manual DHCP release/renews are not actually resulting in getting a new IP assignment.

I have not seen any DHCP transactions or WAN connection statuses in the logs.  I will try to check some more boxes to see if those events can be recorded.   

I'm going to check to see if there was a recent Netgear firmware update that coincides with these problems.

Are there any other suggestions? 

[Cang_Household]

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@jrmonta wrote:

...

the Verizon backend has decided to disconnect me and I can't figure out why.

...

I have not seen any DHCP transactions or WAN connection statuses in the logs.  I will try to check some more boxes to see if those events can be recorded.

---

If you are unable to check the DHCP transactions or WAN statuses, how do you conclude it is Verizon's backend at issue here?

The Netgear router may have failed to renew the WAN IP address or have not responded promptly to offers of DHCP from Verizon layer 3. Is your Netgear router's firmware recently upgraded? You should be able to check this in the log too.

As a side suggestion, if your Netgear router does not support DHCP, WAN, system status logging, it really takes away a majority of tools that can be used to diagnose the problem. This being said, I don't see a point using your own router over Verizon's G1100. G1100 logs all system statues, security events, firewall accepts/denies, and even has a Syslog server.

[teele]

I am now thinking this has nothing to do with DHCP renewal. Just had 3 service drops the last 20 mins. Each time the red FAIL light on the ONT was on.

[Cang_Household]

Ha. How old is your ONT? You might need to request a field tech.

When you are contacting a service representative, ask them to see the signal strength on your ONT. Sometimes the wavelengths on the fiber is too weak, which is indicative of loose fiber connection and/or damaged fiber line.

If you need customer service, please contact 24/7/265 Fios support through social media channels (Twitter or Facebook) or online chat. Phone support should be your last resort for saving your precious time and reducing stress on support Centers.

[jrmonta]

Sorry I got sidetracked by other things and haven't had a chance to post an update.  First I'll reply to the following

@Cang_Household wrote:

  if your Netgear router does not support DHCP, WAN, system status logging, it really takes away a majority of tools that can be used to diagnose the problem. This being said, I don't see a point using your own router over Verizon's G1100. G1100 logs all system statues, security events, firewall accepts/denies, and even has a Syslog server.

My router does support DHCP and WAN status logging, I just didn't have it configured to do so.  Even if it didn't, that isn't reason enough for me to rent a G1100.  I'd rather shop for one of the countless other routers that are available from any number of manufacturers.  Customers are better off when there is open market competition instead of being locked into one of the handful of devices Verizon offers.  Go back far enough in Verizon's history and they were AT&T Bell. That was a time when customers couldn't own the telephones in their own homes.  They had to pay AT&T to rent their home telephone... no different than an ISP forcing users to rent/purchase only their routers or having to rent/purchase your TV from your cable channel provider. Any steps that Verizon takes to make it difficult for customers who choose to use their own routers are bad for all customers. Hopefully now you can "see the point" that the use of open standards and protocols and supporting healthy competition are good things.

For 12-18 months of Verizon rental fees, you can find many routers that have more features and greater performance than the G1100. The only good reason to rent Verizon's equipment isn't price or performance. It's for their technical support. Now, that is a VERY good reason for many customers. However, for those of us who are willing to troubleshoot our own devices, community forums like this one are helpful. My understanding is that this forum is open to all Verizon customers. So if your only contribution is going to be to recommend that anyone seeking help with their own router just give up and use Verizon's G1100... then please don't bother.

[Cang_Household]

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@jrmonta wrote:

Customers are better off when there is open market competition instead of being locked into one of the handful of devices Verizon offers.

---

Verizon does not lock customers into niches. You can use whatever router you want without being charged.

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@jrmonta wrote:

For 12-18 months of Verizon rental fees, you can find many routers that have more features and greater performance than the G1100. The only good reason to rent Verizon's equipment isn't price or performance. It's for their technical support.

---

Why you need to rent a Verizon router when you can pick up a used G1100 off Ebay for $37? Fios-G1100 is a decent router. It has a 3 x 3 MIMO 802.11ac deliver up to 600Mbps. The used router from Ebay will still pull firmware updates from Verizon backend and Verizon will provide you support as long as you are a Fios customer. Which router manufacture provides 24/7/365 free support for devices sold off Ebay? As I mentioned before, Fios-G1100 does provide some extra diagnostic tools such as Syslog, detailed WAN DHCP logs, and a whole stack of TR-069. Syslog and TR-069 seem to be always absent in consumer-grade routers.

[jrmonta]

So after turning on logging, I did see WAN IP disconnects

[Internet connected] IP address: [xxx.xxx.xxx] Saturday, February 06,2021 04:01:32
[Internet disconnected] Saturday, February 06,2021 04:01:31

...

[Internet connected] IP address: [xxx.xxx.xxx] Saturday, February 06,2021 11:01:33
[Internet disconnected] Saturday, February 06,2021 11:01:32

But they're for such small periods of time.  I've seen mention that DHCP renewals can get messed up by bad time values so just in case, I've changed the NTP server that my router uses from the Netgear default (I wish I knew the IP address for Verizon's NTP servers because then I'd know for sure that we're synced up).  I've also removed some "smart home" clients from my local network.  The problem hasn't happened for a couple of days but I'm not ready to declare either of those changes as fixes yet.  I'll post an update if I'm able to isolate the cause to a specific device or if the NTP server setting was the fix.

[teele · Accepted solution]

BTW, my original problem was definitely the ONT. Got it replace and service solid once again.

[Cang_Household]

Do you see the WAN DHCP ACKNOLWEGE log entry first, or [Internet disconnected] first? Presumably, you see the latter first.

DHCP Lease Time/Renewal Time/Binding Time are unsigned 32-bit integers, not a timestamp. Time synchronization should not be a factor here. One possibility is that your router's clock runs slower than Verizon layer 3's clock (time dilation? your router is moving at light speed? Just joking. 😄). A possible scenario is that your router ticks an hour milliseconds slower than Verizon layer 3. The layer 3 revokes the IP address before your router can renew the address. Your router should always renew several minutes before the actual expiration time, I don't think this is the problem either. Can you find out when does your router send out the DHCP REQUEST packet? Before or after the [Internet disconnection]?