Re: From G1000 to G3100 on current G1000/WCB6200 network
Cang_Household
Community Leader
Community Leader

First of all, I suggest you to open a new thread for more exposure.


@JB007 wrote:

Eventually I want to upgrade the WCB6200 (my endpoints) to allow for higher bandwidth and coverage.


Are your WCB6200Q connected to G1100 via MoCA? If so, I need to clarify the bottleneck to you. G1100's MoCA 2.0 is unbonded and is capped at 500Mbps (I see 550Mbps+ in testing). WCB6200Q's MoCA 2.0 is bonded and is capped at 1Gbps. When WCB6200Q connects with G1100 through MoCA, your throughput is as slow as the slowest standard (500Mbps). For purely expanding coverage, I would recommend having multiple extenders.

WCB6200Q is decent. It has 6 antennas (4 on 5GHz and 2 on 2.4GHz). It has 4 x 4 MIMO. It should theoretically achieve a throughput of 1300Mbps. Your mobile phone is typically a 2 x 2 MIMO wireless configuration. It should be way overkill for wireless devices. To get 1Gps wired speed on WCB6200Q, you need a MoCA 2.0 bonded adapter, such as an Actiontec ECB6200 or ECB5240M (Fios Network Adapter).

I would recommend G3100 and E3200 when 1) You need WiFi 6 802.11ax for 650Mbps+ wireless download speed. 2) You need to use MoCA 2.5 (2.5Gbps throughput) as your network bone. OR 3) You has a G3100 (either rented or bought, expensive) already and would like to extend the network wirelessly with an E3200.

If none of the above condition applies to you. I won't recommend the G3100-E3200 combination.


@JB007 wrote:

does SON provide mesh capabilities or how does the navigation from extender to extender work when you roam around the house?


Yes, and no. SON helps to setup a mesh network. E3200 is capable of meshing with G3100 through the hidden 5Ghz band, hence G3100 is called a tri-band router. To clarify your terms, "meshing" in your context probably means a wirelessly backhauled wireless network.

SON's main feature is called band steering. It determines which devices are dual-band capable and pushes them onto the 5Ghz band by decreasing the reliability of the 2.4Ghz band.

What you are looking for in terms of "navigation from extender to extender" is called access point steering. There are protocols governing this mechanism, especially 802.11k/r/v. I believe G3100 only support 802.11k and r. At all times, an access point only tells and suggests what neighboring access points to connect for better performance. The device needs to make the ultimate decision to switch from one to another. Typically, even without access point being instructive to tell the clients what neighboring access points to connect, the clients should be smart enough to make this decision proactively.

Cang - Thank you for these clarifications and they make s...
JB0071
Enthusiast - Level 3

Cang - Thank you for these clarifications and they make sense - I couldnt find anywhere the specs for the limitations.

To answer the questions...here we go...

1) Are your WCB6200Q connected to G1100 via MoCA?  (JB) Yes they are.  G1100 is in the office (front center main floor of the house) - all WCB6200 are networked via coax with G1100 (I can see the extenders and all work by testing their ethernet connects). Your points explains the cap I am seeing of around 500mbps. And the extenders are spread across the house - 2 in the basement (I have a concrete dividing wall that blocks signal) and 2 on the upper floor at opposite sides of the house.

2) Of the options you provided - I was thinking 1 and 3 are applicable. For 1, I would like to higher speed, and for 3, well I have the G3100, but havent gotten the E3200 - and was trying to see if the WCB6200 would still be usable until I get a chance to upgrade them to E3200.  

3) So when you have G3100 and E3200 meshing, does it still use the 5ghz or will it leverage the coax backbone (wired is always preferred over wireless)?  And yes on the Access Point Steering - many times my tablet/laptop/phone connect wirelessly for a conference call - and I traverse through the house to where I start having spotty connection and the call drops because it hasnt reconnected to the closest extender. I haven't seen the clients do it proactively to the point that I have to force it. If SON may alleviate this, then I'll consider upgrading to the E3200 quicker. If not, then if the WCB6200 are serviceable with the G3100 (without SON), then I will leverage that for a few weeks until I can get the E3200.

Just found on Vz site the following for the E3200 Self...
JB0071
Enthusiast - Level 3

Just found on Vz site the following for the E3200

  • Self-Organizing Network technology for automatic band steering and access point steering

The WCB also does it - but I havent enabled SON. 

I'll do some testing this weekend.

Re: Just found on Vz site the following for the E3200 Self...
Cang_Household
Community Leader
Community Leader

For coverage and maximize your gigabit subscription. I won't recommend G3100 and multiple E3200s for the sake of price.

WCB6200Q has known compatibility issues with G3100. An apparent solution is to add a Fios Network Adapter (ECB5240M) between the G3100 and the WCB6200Q. ECB5240M costs $55 a piece. If you need to buy an ECB5240M, there's no point of buying a G3100 perhaps in the first place.

You can buy a used Fios-G1100 on Ebay for less than $50, and still get Verizon support and firmware updates. To overcome the MoCA 500Mbps limit on G1100, buy an ECB5240M to back feed a LAN port to Coax LAN. This way, you should get 1Gbps at every WCB6200Q. WCB6200Q's WiFi is decent already. Being 802.11ac and 4 x 4 MIMO, it should be more than enough to support 20 clients simultaneously when has a 1Gbps backhaul.

To summarize, I find two problems in your current setup/situation:

1) You are not maximizing the potential of WCB6200Q. G1100 is bottlenecking the speed on MoCA, use an ECB5240M ($55) to overcome.

2) G3100 may be incompatible with WCB6200Q per user feedback. Since you have both devices already, can you test my hypothesis/assertion?

If you insist to upgrade all WCB6200Q to E3200, it is very costly. 4 x $200 = $800. At this price level, you can buy enterprise APs + MoCA adapters for a cheaper price.

Re: From G1000 to G3100 on current G1000/WCB6200 network
JB0071
Enthusiast - Level 3

OK makes sense.

I plan to test the setup this weekend.

And will look for an ECB5240M adapter.

I was able to find the adapter on the Vz store, but can only find other version in Amazon - like ECB7250S02, ECB6200.

1) Do I also need an adapter on the opposite end of each Coax where I have each WCB6200 or just the one by the G1100? I can see where i would need the two if I didnt have any MoCa extenders are the ends of the coax, but the WCB6200 will provide the connection. 

2) Assume SON can still be enabled with the ECB5240M in place - and do you still recommended because of its meshing and AP steering?

If the ECB5240M then helps bypass the 1gb bottleneck from the G1100, then it certainly is a much better investment than upgrading the router and extenders to G3100/E3200 - $55 vs. $1000.

Re: From G1000 to G3100 on current G1000/WCB6200 network
Cang_Household
Community Leader
Community Leader

ECB5240M is exclusively produced for Verizon by Actiontec. Unless you are another ISP, Actiontec won't sell to you directly. ECB5240M is cheaper than other Actiontec retail models in terms of performance. WCB6200Q's brother is ECB6200. ECB6200 is costing $60+ and has three fewer Ethernet ports than ECB5240M. Bonus: you get 1 Ethernet cable, 1 short coax cable, and 1 MoCA 2.5 splitter free by ordering from Verizon.

ECB7250 is just released by Actiontec last month: MoCA 2.5 and 802.3bz 2.5Gbps Ethernet. goCoax will release their counterparts before the end of January to compete with Actiontec. You need a $300+ multigigabit switch and a G3100 to take full advantage of the throughput speed.

You only need one ECB5240M near G1100 to essentially replace G1100's LAN Coax port. Check out the diagram I drew for another customer earlier. https://forums.verizon.com/t5/Fios-Internet/When-I-Upgrade-to-Gigabit-How-Am-I-Able-to-Preserve-the-... 

Why turn on the SON? In a modern network with modern devices, you can turn on the SON. In a legacy network or having devices using legacy protocols, SON may cause issues. I don't like the band steering mechanism of the SON. As I mentioned earlier, SON entices dual band devices to the 5Ghz band by deliberately decreasing the reliability of the 2.4GHz. If the device refuses to switch to the 5GHz band, it suffers lower performance. For access point steering, again, the devices make the ultimate decision whether to roam to a different access point.

If you cannot return the G3100, maybe consider buying goCoax 2.5 ($60) instead of ECB5240M. goCoax 2.5 works with G3100 at MoCA 2.5, but unsure its compatibility with WCB6200Qs. I am only affirmative that the goCoax 2.5 works with ECB6200, but may only at MoCA 1.1 standards, 175Mbps, completely missing the point. Since WCB6200Q has similar architecture as ECB6200, it should demonstrate the same behavior with goCoax 2.5.

Can you please test the compatibility between G3100 and G1100? And between G3100 and WCB6200Q? WCB6200Q's MoCA setting can be adjusted, but is not documented.

Sounds good. Planning to do the testing later today or...
JB0071
Enthusiast - Level 3

Sounds good.

Planning to do the testing later today or tomorrow on the G3100 and WCB6200 compatibility.

Thanks for sharing the pic on the config for the ECB5240M.

It would be interesting to test the goCoax 2.5 - given that 2.5 is backwards compatible with 2.0 and 1.1 - obviously with the limiting factor of 2.0 at 1gbs rather than the 2.5.  ECB6200 is 2.0 so should operate at the 2.0 standard with the goCoax 2.5 (at 2.0) rather than 1.1.

We just moved in to the house and have recently discovered that we have Cat5e drops across key rooms in the house - but they were never enabled/connected (cables are cut). Thinking of possibly defining a way to leverage them and use APs instead. Let me test the G3100 first with the WCB6200 to see how they work. If not, then I can look into the goCoax 2.5 or the ECB5240M.

Re: Sounds good. Planning to do the testing later today or...
Cang_Household
Community Leader
Community Leader

The downside of running Ethernet wires to various location is the necessity of buying a switch. A MoCA network can contain up to 16 nodes per channel band, i.e. one network coordinator + 15 adapters. If you run Ethernet to 16 devices, you need a 16-port switch.

Test results...G1100, G3100, WCB6200 and goCoax 2.5
JB0071
Enthusiast - Level 3

Test 1:
G1100 with WCB6200 and goCoax 2.5 (connected to G1100 via cat6 and then goCoax to Coax line) - the goCoax did not recognize the MoCa network, Lan light turned on, but Coax did not.  Doesnt seem compatible with WCB6200. Tried a reset, but nothing. (Failed)

Test 2:
G3100, WCB6200 - first try did not work, tried troubleshooting but ran out of time and had to revert to re-enable internet at home.

First, tried directly connected via Cat6 to the G3100 router but it would not yield speeds higher than 300-400mbps - that bothered me as I expected to see 600+ via ethernet - my laptop has gigabit ethernet but the Speed Test app, would not even break 420mbps. Spent too much time trying to figure and just gave up. I then went to various of the WCB6200 to test wired connectivity, but no internet connection.  (on SpeedTest, I tried various locations too).  When i reverted to G1100, I connected via cat6 and tested speeds - with some speed tests exceeding 800+ (U/D)

Cang - I went to your post here: https://forums.verizon.com/t5/Fios-Internet/Can-I-use-WCB6200-Extender-with-Fios-Router-G3100/m-p/90...

However, before I configured and tested the wireless on the WCB6200, i tried the wired connection, but didnt work, I couldnt get any internet via wired at the WCB6200. 

Before wrapping up, I did a full reset of the G3100 again and will try again later this week when I am allowed to bring the network down at home. 🙂

Re: Test results...G1100, G3100, WCB6200 and goCoax 2.5
Cang_Household
Community Leader
Community Leader

Heads Up: If you wish to return some products, please do so before the deadline. I don't want to make you hold down to something that you want to return.

Test 1 should work per goCoax. You do need to log into the goCoax 2.5 and change three settings. I will provide detailed instructions if you want to connect in this way.

Test 2: If you scroll up the post, you will see the other user got G3100 to recognize the device name of WCB6200Q in the connection list. But that connection is gone in seconds. I believe that is a frequency channel mismatch or something is wrong with the coax node admission process. Can you screenshot the LAN Coax Status page? Also the LAN Coax Settings page. Thanks.

Test 3 (add one test please): I am actually interested in whether G1100 will connect with G3100 through coax. Before doing so, you need to change G1100's LAN IP address to a different one other than 192.168.1.1 occupied by G3100.

Note on factory resetting: factory resetting is not always necessary unless the network is broken and cannot be fixed by adjusting the current settings.

Are WCB6200Q, G1100, and goCoax 2.5 deployed in the network? Is the LAN Coax from G3100 used at all? If not, merely testing the LAN Coax side of the router won't bring down the entire network unless you stumble upon an IP conflict.