HTTP Inbound

[Chava]

Hi, I’m interesting to obtain Internet FIOS but want to make sure that port 80 (HTTP) is open inbound. I did chat with Verizon representative but I did have doubts of their confirmation. Can some one verify if port 80 for inbound is open or remains closed by Verizon?

[viafax999]

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@Chava wrote:

Hi, I’m interesting to obtain Internet FIOS but want to make sure that port 80 (HTTP) is open inbound. I did chat with Verizon representative but I did have doubts of their confirmation. Can some one verify if port 80 for inbound is open or remains closed by Verizon?

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It's open to my router, needs a port forwarding rule for the internal device.

Some users here claim that port 80 is blocked.  If so it must be a regional thing.

It doesn't really matter if it's blocked anyway as you can use any port as a listener on your http server and there are many ways to translate the inbound port 80 request to the listener port before it gets to the router.

[PGJK]

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Chava wrote on 05-07-2010 11:12 AM :

Hi, I’m interesting to obtain Internet FIOS but want to make sure that port 80 (HTTP) is open inbound. I did chat with Verizon representative but I did have doubts of their confirmation. Can some one verify if port 80 for inbound is open or remains closed by Verizon?

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I'm not quite sure what you're asking but ...

1) If you can access the internet via your web browser ...then the answer is Yes, using HTTP:// calls out via port 80 or 8080 and recieves callback on port 80 or 8080 plus some other ports may open and/or close as information reaches your computer. some of these ports may remain open for 'LIVE' content being streamed to your screen (Java scipts & streams are notorious for leaving port 80/8080 + those additional ports wide open). Normally unless there's flaws in the OS software these ports will close again and remain that way until your next call.

2) If you manually access your OS software for say 'updates' via your web browser ...then the answer again is Yes, for the same reasons as stated above however one major differences

Scenerio #1 a manual download such as 'right clicking on download link' will result in downloading through the port 80 or 8080 (I'm pretty sure of this, it will remain open for as long as the connectionis needed) or until download has ended and you've exited browser, whereby shutting down port 80/8080..

Scenerio #2 you allow the website to download and install the updates well the the port 80/8080 retains connection to the website and the downloading takes place via FTP (I belive its ports 21 & 23 or whatever ports you have setup) ...these connections are maintained until the download is finished for ports 21/23 and the the closure of the web browser for ports 80/8080.

Scenerio #3 Any such usage of HTTP:// protocol or web browser will open port 80/8080 ...because they are best friends LOL

So bottom line is that ports are generally closed unless a call is made and its waiting and listening for a reply, Its perfectly 'normal' for a 'port' to be closed, problems arise when they are left open and not in active use. Software that 'PHONES HOME' are the biggest nuisances and culprits of leaving port wide open. I hope this resolves your dilema

[viafax999]

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@PGJK wrote:

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Chava wrote on 05-07-2010 11:12 AM :

Hi, I’m interesting to obtain Internet FIOS but want to make sure that port 80 (HTTP) is open inbound. I did chat with Verizon representative but I did have doubts of their confirmation. Can some one verify if port 80 for inbound is open or remains closed by Verizon?

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I'm not quite sure what you're asking but ...

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He presumably is inquiring if it's possible to run a web browser on  an exposed machine on his in house network.

[spacedebris]

The official word is no. Port 80 is blocked. (if your in an area that is not blocked, it will be eventually). Port 80 is considered a "business" port and is prohibited from use by the terms of service (I dont have the quote right now, but it as been posted numerous times). Now we all know that there are other uses for port 80 other than running a business website, but it is mostly used for that. Thats why port 25 was blocked too. It is a "business" port and also one used by spam bots. They've cracked down on port 25 and in the areas that port 80 is not blocked on now, they wont be available for much longer.

[viafax999]

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@spacedebris wrote:

The official word is no. Port 80 is blocked. (if your in an area that is not blocked, it will be eventually). Port 80 is considered a "business" port and is prohibited from use by the terms of service (I dont have the quote right now, but it as been posted numerous times). Now we all know that there are other uses for port 80 other than running a business website, but it is mostly used for that. Thats why port 25 was blocked too. It is a "business" port and also one used by spam bots. They've cracked down on port 25 and in the areas that port 80 is not blocked on now, they wont be available for much longer.

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Of course but if you still really want to do it you use some other port.  You can then change the listener on your web site to that other port and port forward the other port directly or leave the listener at port 80 and port forward the other port to port 80.

There is still the issue of the VZ router being dhcp but it supports DynDNS so you can just get a free DynDNS account and set up the VZ router to auto upgrade that - that gets rid of the IP address issue.

I use network solutions as a name provider for my domain name so they host my email etc.  They provide a free forwarding option for you WWW name so you can for example set that up to forward www.my.website to http://mywebsite.homedns.org:1234

Similarly if you wanted to be able to access your machine at home while on the road you just need to enable remote access for your userid and then use MSTSC.EXE  to mywebsite.homedns.org:3389 personally I would change the RDP listener to something other than 3389 but I'm just paranoid.

Of course his issue may be more mundane.

There is some MS home server option that I foget the name of that appears to need port 80 to be open for it to work correctly.  There have been several threads on here about issues with that.

[lasagna]

That is incorrect ... port 80 is not blocked.   The reason for blocking port 25 outbound is entirely unrelated to port 80.  The port 25 block is a malware bot defense which is aimed at cutting down on the overall amount of spam from infected machines that can transmit across the network.

With that said however, for those with "residential" service, you are prohibited from running a "server" on the network specifically as indicated in section 4, paragraph 3 of the terms of service:

http://www.verizon.net/central/vzc.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=vzc_help_policies&id=TOS 

Restrictions on Use. The Service is a consumer grade service and is not designed for or intended to be used for any commercial purpose. You may not resell the Service, use it for high volume purposes, or engage in similar activities that constitute such use (commercial or non-commercial). If you subscribe to a Broadband Service, you may connect multiple computers/devices within a single home to your modem and/or router to access the Service, but only through a single Verizon-issued IP address. You also may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server. Violation of this section may result in bandwidth restrictions on your Service or suspension or termination of your Service.

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The use of a "server" for your own personal use (for example, to allow you to remotely access your home systems), probably falls outside this particular definition of "server" at least in spirit, but if it's for general consumption by the public at large, you would clearly be in violation of the terms.

Most every ISP has similar restrictions.   

As for change the "port" number to make it work in the event port 80 is blocked for some reason, yes, that would work.   But if it's a "server", it's still a violation of the TOS and to discuss how to circumvent those blocks here would likewise be a violation of the TOS of the forum.   So ... tread carefully.

[spacedebris]

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@lasagna wrote:

That is incorrect ... port 80 is not blocked.   The reason for blocking port 25 outbound is entirely unrelated to port 80.  The port 25 block is a malware bot defense which is aimed at cutting down on the overall amount of spam from infected machines that can transmit across the network.

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Not to pick a fight or anything. Dont take this the wrong way. 🙂   But YOU are incorrect. I'm not always right and I have been and will be wrong again, but in this case, this is one that I know for a fact. Port 80 IS blocked in a lot regions. It is in mine (southern California) and if you call Verizon they will tell you it is blocked too. Officially it is blocked and unsupported for anything lower than a business class service. Now un-officially, it still works in many areas. But Verizon is currently working on upgrading their network. Once that is done, according to my friend in Tech support, they will be blocking it nationwide on residential accts. So while it works in many areas for now, it will be changing in the fairly near future. And yes, the port 25 box was primarily put in place for fighting the spam bots, but it was also slated for the same national block as port 80, they just rushed it through becase of the spam issue.

[lasagna]

Well that's unfortunate for you ... as of 2 minutes ago, port 80 works just fine for us here in the NorthEast ... not that I really care much since I do all my hosting out of a commercial hosting provider.   Just don't mess with my port 22 SSH traffic that I use to get into my computer at home when not there.

Regardless I think it's a fair statement that what the OP was pondering  doing -- hosting a web server -- is not something which is permitted by the TOS regardless of "if" it works or not.