Surcharge on old routers?

[lrowland200]

I just recieved notice that Versizon wants to add a surcharge on old routers.  I have it but it is not what I use since I have use my own router.  Does anyone have advice on how to handle this?  I don't want to pay a surcharge for something I don't use and I don't need to upgrade the router since what I'm using is working perfectly.

I'll try calling tomorrow - just wondering if anyone ese has dealt with this.

[smith6612]

Just waiting for the day Verizon starts charging me for using a 12 year old DSL modem. The DSLAM is even older than the modem 🙂

Since BHR is mandatory for TV service to work right, a router replacement and upgrade cycle should be included with a part of the service. No different from telephone service from cable companies mandating the company's cable modem for use (at least with my local company). If they make this apply only to Internet only, big deal. Make support for third party routers more standardized.

[Bob1692]

I just received an email on Friday explaining the router surcharge or need to upgrade to the newer router. 

Like many here I've got an old Actiontec MI424-WR Rev F that came with the service when I switched to FiOS many years ago.  I used the router for the intial setup then switched over to my Netgear router as it was a dual band N router and have used it exclusively for many years.  I have no need for the Actiontec router as I am only using FiOS for Internet access. And, if my old router bites the dust, I'll be happy to buy whatever new router I want from someone other than Verizon. The Verizon routers don't offer me the capabilities I'd be looking for. 

The only thing my TV is used for is to watch VCR tapes and DVDs.

It's interesting to see that Verizon charges $199 for the G1100, while one can purchase it through Amazon for ~$146.

I'll be calling customer service tomorrow to find out what my options are.  If they want to charge me for using my own router, than it will be good-bye to Verizon FiOS.  I'll gladly return the old Actiontec router as it has been gathering dust since late 2011.

[Bob1692]

I just got off the phone with Verizon customer service concerning the router service charge.

Verizon is sending me a router return kit to return the router. After they have verification that the router has been returned they will no longer bill the service fee to my account. 

There was no estimate on when I'd receive the return kit and I'm hoping that this all works out the way the customer service person said it would.

[bampfer]

"There was no estimate on when I'd receive the return kit and I'm hoping that this all works out the way the customer service person said it would."

I've returned equipment before and it's often gone smoothly.

I recommend recording the serial number (take a picture of the back, maybe) before sending it, just in case. One time I returned a cablecard and they lost track of the serial number, weren't sure which one I'd returned. I had to call 6 times before someone figured out why I was still getting billed for an extra card every month.

So: record the ID, check your bill in the following months to make sure you don't get charged for it later, and all will be well.

[gmo1]

Trying to find out why Verizon is trying to increase my router charge each month because it is an old router if I do not buy a new router. There is nothing in my contract that states this can be done.

Could Verizon please send me the lines in my contract that allow this?  If you want me to have anew router you are welcome to send me a new one free of charge.

[CRobGauth]

Equipment charges are not part of the fixed price on your contract.

So equipment charges can chage as necessary.

And from what I hear, is pretty standard in the cable industry.

[db909]

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@gmo wrote:

Trying to find out why Verizon is trying to increase my router charge each month because it is an old router if I do not buy a new router. There is nothing in my contract that states this can be done.

Could Verizon please send me the lines in my contract that allow this?  If you want me to have anew router you are welcome to send me a new one free of charge.

---

Head over to dslreports.com, there is a much more helpful thread there.  Some people are reporting they are getting free Rev I router upgrades sent to them so the fee will not apply to them. 

Your best bet when having any kind of FIOS issue is to go to the Verizon Direct Forum at dslreports.com.  After you state your issue you will be given a link to a North American rep via chat, no need to call FIOS or run the gaunlet of offshore script readers that you get when you call FIOS.

[nico213]

I asked verizon why they are charging me for the router and what I got was"we can because the government allows us to" was what I got from customer service! Now you see the importance of lobbyists passing laws thru govt. officials. My answer was see you after my contract runs out and back to cable even if it a slower connection. Between the local ares sports network which we got charged for because some wanted it but the charge was too much for a few to charging all customers whether they want it or not to surcharges on routers they lost a paying customer for good.

[Davoud1]

To add insult to injury, the e-mail and paper mail that I received offered only a refurbished replacement router. I phoned customer service and they couldn't help; only refurbs available.

OT: Verizon has the worst web site of any company that I do business with. When I log in I can only get to Verizon Wireless (I use AT&T for my iPhones, but have a Verizon MiFi). I can't get to FIOS services no matter what I do.

[CRobGauth]

The older Rev I routers probably are only available as refurbed.

If you want one of the Quantum rotuers, they can be gotten as new but are more expensive.

On your home network, if you go to www.verizon.com and sign in with your FIOS id and password you don't see your FIOS account?

[db909]

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@CRobGauth wrote:

The older Rev I routers probably are only available as refurbed.

If you want one of the Quantum rotuers, they can be gotten as new but are more expensive.

---

Are a FIOS shill?  I got a new non-refurbed Rev I.  Besides who cares if it is free and works?

Per my prior post go to the dslreports.com "Verizon Direct" forum.  That is your best bet.

[gmo1]

Why is Verizon tacking on an addiitonal charge for an old router if I do not purchase a new router. MY contract says nothing about having to purchase a new router. I can see if my old router breaks, but an addiitonal charge to my bill if I do not upgrade is not stated in the contract. If it is in the contract please show me.  If Verizon would like me to have a newer router they are free to send me one free of charge.

[schinfchin]

I read somewhere in the forum that some of the old routers are no longer compatable and needs to be updated. I don't know about Verizon, but Time Warner never turns around and charge for everything.

Having said that, reminds me of my dad complaining about the same thing when NY Tel, Verizons predicessor, started charging extra for touch tone, and if he goes for touch tone, believe they charge for the new phone. He had his old dialer phone with bells on top since the 1940's, this was the 1970's, and he is angry that nothing is stated in his contract he had to pay extra, especially, when his phone still works.

Now, fast forward to the 1990's, he still uses that phone, my daughter who was 5 at the time, looked at it, and asked what it was. When told it was a phone, wanted to know why it had two bells on top. Wanted to know where the push buttons are, and wanted to know where the antenna for the phone is.

I have many fond memories of my dad, my daughter when she was five, and his stubborn refusal of touch tone is one of them.

[happychun]

Verizon imposes a new monthly router maintenance charge of $2.80 because we have an old model which is being discontinued.  Verizon offers a low cost alternative to the monthly charge with an upgrade to a refurbished newer model for $59.99.  This newer router is only a one-generation newer in technology having Wi-Fi 802.11n rather than the 802.11g on our current router.

We strongly disagree with the reasons Verizon stated for the mandatory maintenance charge and the enhanced Fios experience with Wi-Fi speeds we will get from the router upgrade.

We are not renting the router and therefore Verizon is not responsible for the repair cost.  We have not, and will not make any service calls since we are 100% satisfied with our current router performance.  The security features and internet speeds from our old router match with our computer hardware and the lowest internet speed we are subscribing to.  We strongly feel that it is unwarranted for Verizon to impose a charge for either repair or service call that they will not have performed.

The router upgrade offered is not a long-term solution to the technology issue Verizon stated.  The refurbished router is only one generation newer than the one we have.  This model will also be discontinued in the near future just like our current router.  Should we accept another upgrade offer from Verizon again within 2 years to avoid another new monthly router maintenance charge?   

A refurbished router having 802.11n technology does not enhance our internet experience with any faster speeds.  Our Fios service only includes the lowest speed of 50 Mbps because we do not need anything faster to work with Wi-Fi 802.11g on our old computers.  The refurbished router will not operate at a faster speed beyond the speed we subscribe to and the speed our computers are limited to.  To increase our internet experience we need to upgrade our subscription to higher internet speeds, buy new computer hardware, and purchase or rent a most current new router instead of a refurbished router as offered by Verizon.  The total cost for all these upgrades are too high for our needs.

The new router maintenance charge and refurbished router upgrade offer are unjustifiable based on the facts and reasons we stated above.  We intend to take this matter to the Federal Communication Commission (FCC) for help if Verizon does not reconsider this issue which we consider as a price increase.

[CRobGauth]

Hardware costs are not regulated by FCC.

If you are not using FiOS TV service, you can use whatever router you wish.

Or you can use a cable card device and use your own router.

If you use FiOS stb, Verizon is saying you have to have a minimum level router in order for their service to operate properly.

[bampfer]

> If you use FiOS stb, Verizon is saying you have to have a minimum level router

> in order for their service to operate properly.

It's prudent for them to stop supporting old equipment. The issue is of course the charge. If someone gives you something explicitly for free when you sign up, then later creates a new fee to charge for it, people are going to be upset. Especially a fee that only impacts the oldest, most loyal customers.

Something else I'm curious about. If I pay the $2.80 rental fee, and then the router breaks, what will they replace it with? Either another old one, that is, a model that they insist they don't want to support, or a new one that other people paid $50 to upgrade to. Neither seems quite fair, does it?

Seems to me a better way to handle this would have been to increase their rates a little when people renew contracts. That's when people expect rates to change. Would also have saved them the cost of the special mailings explaining the situation.

> If you are not using FiOS TV service, you can use whatever router you wish.

Oh? I've read that's it's possible, but you need to be installed that way up front. By default Verizon uses a coax cable between the ONT (i.e. the FIOS box in the garage) and the router, which retail routers don't support. (Plus it is claimed that you may have trouble getting tech support from Verizon if you don't have their router in place when you call.) (Source: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/14077) If you have different information I'd be interested!

Sincerely,

Matt

[CRobGauth]

I have read a number of people that use their own router.

Not much support would be needed for an internet only connection.

Its easy to troubleshoot issues.

You woukd need to run your own Ethernet cable from ont to router location.

Although you might be able to order an uogreade to 100 MB internet as that has to be ethernet.

Then you can downgrade. Just make sure that your current level us still an available option.

[bampfer]

>I have read a number of people that use their own router.

>You would need to run your own Ethernet cable

I may very well try this suggestion at some point if I decide to stay with Fios, assuming they persist in this ridiculous router charge.

But I would have to get Verizon to switch the ONT from MoCA to Ethernet remotely. This can take some persuading apparently. In the last 2 years I have completely failed to get them to fix 3 other issues. REALLY not looking forward to chancing a 4th. (Nor do I like the idea of trying to trick them into doing it by upgrading to 100/100 then downgrading.)

>Not much support would be needed for an internet only connection.

>Its easy to troubleshoot issues.

Exactly why I think the new router support fee is unjustified! 🙂 Seems to me Verizon's reps will end up spending more time supporting my switch off of MoCA than they would supporting my "obsolete" router. So everyone loses, I guess?

Joking aside, I appreciate the suggestion.

[lasagna]

In response to the discussion regarding switching your handoff from MoCA to Ethernet, let me say I just did this (two nights ago).

After being on FiOS for many years, a couple years ago Iswitched from using their DVR's and STB's to TiVo Roamio DVR and three TiVo Mini's.  At that point I installed my own router behind the Vz router (double NAT) which was provisioned MoCA and operated that way until recently.

I have several personally owned MoCA bridges (ECB2500C and the now deprecated 4 port version that I don't recall the model number from offhand).

With the router notice, it motivated me to finally pull the plug on the Vz router.  So, I ran an Ethernet cable from my ONT into the basement where I have my router located.  Turned off my Vz router and disconnected it, and hooked the Ethernet from the ONT to the WAN port of my router.  I also interconnected one of my MoCA bridges to my router LAN side so that I continued to have a MoCA network for my TiVO to get to the Internet although if you don't want to use MoCA and can cable the TiVo to the LAN via Ethernet directly, that's fine too.

I then called Vz 1-800-Verizon and went thru the prompts to get to an agent who could help with "issues with my internet".  This call was about 9pm in the evening Eastern.  Waited on hold about 10 minutes and was connected to a pleasant, but somewhat accented call center agent (thinking offshore most likely for those who criticize that but I did not ask).  Told her simply that I wanted to change my Internet handoff from MoCA to Ethernet.  She understood immediately, checked my account, and upon seeing no Vz STB's tried to change the provisioning.  She couldn't get it to work, so she put me on hold while she spoke with a "Netwotk Technician".  Took about another 4 minutes before I saw my MoCA light go out on the ONT and the Ethernet go green.  

At at this point, I logged into my router and released/renewed my WAN interface and immediately got an address and was able to access the Internet.

I then asked for a return label for my old router.  After the requisite cautions about using a third party router and my small white lie about getting one from eBay (the caution being that Vz couldn't support a third party router if there are issues - reasonable - if you aren't a network savvy person, you shouldn't be doing this and expecting Vz to then troubleshoot it), I ended the call and went on my merry way.

works great.  Call was uneventful and simple.

Now, if you have Vz STB's, while you technically do this with your own bridges and proper port forwards, I can see why Vz would not allow such a configuration because several of their features require being able to inquire against the router to establish the proper port forwards, etc. to allow the boxes and features to work.

YMMV, but it can be done and can be done rather easily if you don't have TV service or aren't using Vz STB's and have only cable cards.

[Capricorn1]

I pretty much have the same setup as lasagna. My router is a Linux box with two network interfaces, but the result is the same. My wireless LAN is a Linksys router, but I only use the LAN side, so it's really just an access point. My setup has always been that way. When I got FIOS, FIOS TV wasn't available, so everyone got Ethernet from the ONT. Mine was also a business FIOS account, so while they gave me a D-Link router, I never even powered it up.

When FIOS TV came out a year or two later, I switched to that from DirectTV. Verizon didn't mess with the Ethernet, but instead installed a MoCA bridge and connected that to my router. I added a couple firewall rules and it's been working ever since. I have since switched to residential Internet, but I still use the same basic router. (I have replaced the box a several times and switched Linux distributions, but that's pretty invisible to Verizon. Switched out the wireless router a few times, too.)

I did have a Verizon DVR when I first got the TV service, but the second time it crashed during a superbowl (where rebooting took about 5 minutes), I got rid of that and went with Cablecards and a TiVo DVR. I still have an ancient Verizon STB (Motorola - not a DVR) for the TV in the living room. If either the MoCA bridge (A Motorola NIM 100) or the STB dies (we are on our second one) at this point, I'll have to upgrade to a newer MoCA bridge and/or STB as they both use the old MoCA 1.0 standard. Except for the ONT and the one STB, I don't use any Verizon-supplied equipment.

[FrankGC]

Happychun,

 Does the $59.99 purchased router include service or replacement in case of failure?

If it does not, I will stay with the old router inspite of the charge of $2.80.

Frank C