World of Warcraft DC's using Verizon Security Suite - fixes?

[Soupy1]

  I am a new Verizon Fios customer and when I originally had the service installeda couple weeks ago,  I did not install the security suite right away.  I was using Norton 360 (Comcast) on my desktop and Windows 7 security services on my laptop.  All was working well in terms of internat access, speeds, and WoW performance. 

  I then proceeded to install the security suite on my desktop and laptop and now WoW DC's after approximately 5 minutes whether I use direct connect (desktop) or wireless (laptop).  Did not have any issues before installing the security suite.  Turning off the features I have access to in the menu's does not help the situation.  Using my laptop on a DSL wireless network at work location is fine with no disconnects. 

  If I am running the Ventrilo client software it drops connection as well and I have to close and relaunch it to get it working again.  The DC and Ventrilo issue happen simultaneously.  The DC's occur even without Ventrilo ruunning.

  Were do I begin as I dread calling support and get pointed to Mcafee and Blizzard when the issue seems to be related to the Verizon router/fios services and probably Mcafee interaction.  Also what is the "cleaner" program to remove Mcafee from my system?

Thank-you in advance for your constructive input.

[EpicFail1]

The only true way to remove McAfee is to reformat and Reinstall.

If you happen to have an Actiontec WAP, then you are probably going to experience A LOT of disconnects.

FIOS happens to have a lot of issues with keeping MMO's running.

[somegirl]

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@EpicFail wrote:

The only true way to remove McAfee is to reformat and Reinstall.

If you happen to have an Actiontec WAP, then you are probably going to experience A LOT of disconnects.

FIOS happens to have a lot of issues with keeping MMO's running.

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Funny, I've been playing various MMOs on Verizon FiOS for years, never had any problems. Yes, I'm using the Actiontec router that came with the service.

Maybe it's not FiOS. Maybe it's you/your pc/your network, EpicFail.

[EpicFail1]

No.. It was actually the coax that Verizon used to connect the ONT to my house.

It was grounded incorrectly.

[Soupy1]

   Ok last night I went into my router to try the DMZ testing etc and noticed port forwarding wasn't set - even though I thought the installer mentioned needing to do it and thought he set it.  I turned it on for WoW and was able to run without incident for well over an hour of testing.  Tonight I will be able to stress test that solution.  I still have VISS installed and running.

  Now on to my laptop.  Running Windows 7 and VISS.  I still got disconnects as port forwarding appears to be device dependent.  I decided to bite the bullet and uninstall VISS.  WoW appears to now work ok, but the uninstall had adversely affected my internet explorer software (I can no longer see my wall feed from facebook, it has affected the entry of username and passwords as well.  I tried to reset it and it could not perform the last step. 

   Google Chrome works fine.   I guess I will muck things up more by uninstalling IE8 (64 bit) and reinstalling the 32 bit version as there is an issue with some 64 bit addons anyway causing performance issues..  

Soupy

[lasagna]

Sure ... the port forwarding you specify in the router is for a specific host address ... so you are in a sense enabling it to work for that specific system.  This is essentially what I was going for with the DMZ suggestion since it's a simple way to "port forward" everything to a specific system -- if such a change works, it's an indicator of a need for a port forward.

Sounds like you're starting to make progress on things however.

[Soupy1]

   Thank-you for the help.  Now to get my laptop back in shape.  

[Soupy1]

Well the laptop is now functional after I found a cleaner off the Mcafee site, but haven't done any more WoW  testing on it.

The desktop running with port forwarding set for WoW and Ventrilo (voice client) did not pass my stress test (nighttime group raiding in WoW).  I still got DC's although they seemed slightly less frequent, but totally unacceptable.  The DC's occur at various times and I can't identify some "event" that might be triggering it - from sitting idle to being in the middle of a 25-man fight.  At the end of the evening I removed the VISS and ran the cleaner utility.  Tonight I will run with this setup and see what happens.  My concern here is turning off the firewall and other utilities does not help the DC's.

One of my fellow WoW players said Verizon is probably causing the issue by fiddling with the ports.

I sent a note to the Actiontec support and they replied with - never heard of a problem like that!  I will probably send another ticket to them today.

I'm going to look at Ventrilo forums for any info.

[spacedebris]

If you've placed the computer into the DMZ, then ports should no longer be an issue. Operative word is should.

How long has the VISS been installed? Have you considered doing a system restore to before the VISS installation?

[lasagna]

The OP hasn't tried the DMZ scenario yet, nor my UPnP ... so those remain to be tested.

As for the "port fiddling" speculation, that's barking up the wrong tree.   As somegirl indicated previously, others play these types of games on their FiOS connection all the time ... this is a local environment issue.   We just haven't stumbled on the cause yet.

[Soupy1]

I never did the true DMZ test because when I did the port forwarding -  the problem appeared to go away.  However under real use conditions the problem came up again - not sure why as my initial testing had the same programs running however the level of activity on Ventrilo and WoW was much lower (especially Ventrilo).  It looks like testing this is going to be a pain.  I can test again tonight, but I don't have the time to reset things during my test window (4 hours of continuous activity).

I really prefer not to do a restore, but that will be another option ... short of dropping the service and going back to Comcast where I only had extreme occasional issues and not frequent DC's like Fios.

[Soupy1]

     Last night I was able to do a full test - not very successful once again.

      Desktop without VISS  (using removal tool not restore point) running Ventrilo and WoW and port forwarding - complete failure  DC's occuring frequently like before.

      Since I was in the middle of a raid at break I turned on my laptop to separate running Ventrilo on laptop (wireless) and WoW on my desktop.  Port forwarding was set for Desktop still for both products.  What I noticed was both WoW and Ventrilo would DC at different times and not affect each other.  WoW ran for longer periods of time without DC, but it was still a problem.

    So clearly the environment causes Ventrilo and WoW to DC and on same system the "event" causing it affects both softwares.  WoW doesn't crash - just DC, but Ventrilo actually can't find servers anymore so it has to be shut down and restarted.

I had a moment once again so I remembered the port forward and got in router and turned it off for Ventrilo.

      Ventrilo DC's stopped at least to the end of the evening.  WoW still had an occasional DC.  WoW is still unacceptable as I would only DC in Wow maybe once or twice a week not 10 - 20 times or more in an (4 hour) evening.

      So now I decided that maybe it was time to turn off port forwarding as that was the state the system worked ok with originally.  I turned off WoW port forwarding and rebooted the router (this was after raid).   WoW seemed to run ok, but the test was not a full 25 man raid - it was just a 5 man activity so inconclusive.

     I have a 10 man activity this evening so I will try current setup and then perform the DMZ test.

     Feeling like this is a resource issue/environment problem, which somehow got introduced with VISS.  I know there was also a windows update around the same time.

     I will report results tomorrow and be prepared to do a restore point to before VISS was installed. 

[spacedebris]

It almost sounds like you may be having a traffic routing issue with the verizon router.

Do you have another router laying around? If so, I would try adding another router behind the verizon router. Connect your computers to the new router, and just use the verizon router for passthru.  The new firmware should have corrected the small/tiny nat table problem the verizon routers had in the past, but you may still be seeing remnants of that.

[Soupy1]

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@spacedebris wrote:

It almost sounds like you may be having a traffic routing issue with the verizon router.

Do you have another router laying around? If so, I would try adding another router behind the verizon router. Connect your computers to the new router, and just use the verizon router for passthru.  The new firmware should have corrected the small/tiny nat table problem the verizon routers had in the past, but you may still be seeing remnants of that.

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  I do have another router that I used with Comcast for my home network/wireless N which worked fine.  Whiat configuration would I be doing to do a passthru ?  I was going to try the DMZ test using my PC's network address and check/turn off UPnP as suggested above and by Verizon support (who I finally contacted).  I noticed in a thread where the Actiontec no longer reports NAT issues in a log but actiontec tech support said the equipment should be ok and it is a Verizon issue since the problem targets Vent and WoW but the network stays up.. 

  If none of these work I was going to run a test bypassing the Actiontec by requesting activation of the ethernet port and using my own router - just to see what results.

I appreciate all the input.  Hopefully I can get more data points this evening.

[spacedebris]

Depends on the type of router you have. Or I should say it depend on the IP address of the router.

If you have a D-link or a Netgear, these have different IP's than the Verizon, so they are plug and play. You just connect an ethernet cable from a LAN port on the Actiontec to the Internet port on the dlink/netgear. Then just connect your computers to the netgear. With this set up the actiontec just becomes another hop passing info from one router to another.

If you have another router like a linksys that uses the same IP as the actiontec (192.168.1.1) then you would have to alter the linksys to a different IP. THEN it plugs in like the others.

[Soupy1]

   Tried DMZ   DC'd within minutes.

   Tried UPnP   same result - quick DC.

   Plugged in DR-655 (dlink) router to lan port and pc into DR-655  after a bit of finaggling it recognized my "old" network and although I had an initial DC, I ran flawlessly all night in 10 man raiding with WoW and Ventrilo on same desktop.  This is the router I used off my Comcast modem before Fios, which ran my home network.  Great latency and resulting framerates - just what I was expecting to see from Fios.  It is also set with UPnP on and no port forwarding.

   Where does that leave me?  Do I have a bad Actiontec?  I also understand there were some on-screen glitched (green streaks) when my family was watching a VoD program - not sur eif that is related or normal.

    I can test another 10 man activity Saturday evening then have a full 25 man activity on Sunday evening.

[dslr595148]

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@Soupy wrote:

   Tried DMZ   DC'd within minutes.

   Tried UPnP   same result - quick DC.

   Plugged in DR-655 (dlink) router to lan port and pc into DR-655  after a bit of finaggling it recognized my "old" network and although I had an initial DC, I ran flawlessly all night in 10 man raiding with WoW and Ventrilo on same desktop.  This is the router I used off my Comcast modem before Fios, which ran my home network.  Great latency and resulting framerates - just what I was expecting to see from Fios.  It is also set with UPnP on and no port forwarding.

   Where does that leave me?  Do I have a bad Actiontec?  I also understand there were some on-screen glitched (green streaks) when my family was watching a VoD program - not sur eif that is related or normal.

    I can test another 10 man activity Saturday evening then have a full 25 man activity on Sunday evening.

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My guess is that your Verizon router has a small/tiny NAT Table.

Points to http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16233

^^

[Soupy1]

Basically I did the following config (excerpt from adding your own router to Fios):

1. Secondary (LAN-to-WAN)
Simply plug the secondary (user) router into a LAN port on the Actiontec. User router must be configured for a different subnet than the Actiontec. The WAN port on the user router must also be set to use either a static IP address on the Actiontec subnet, or obtain its WAN address via DHCP.

PRO: 
 

• Simplest. VZ recommended solution.
• No configuration changes required in the Actiontec.
• Supported by VZ. i.e. No changes to Actiontec config needed when calling for support.
• No cabling changes.
• Can be used with either a coax or cat5 connection to the ONT.
•Supports remote access to DVR

CON:

• Secondary (user) router is double NAT'ed.
• No VZ support for secondary (user) router.
• Still subject to small NAT table in the Actiontec.
• Any port forwarding will need to be configured on both routers.

  The NAT table limit should still be there.   Again I'm not sure why this helped my problem and will be doing some additional testing this evening and Sunday. 

[Soupy1]

Saturday evening:  Setup is same as Friday with Actiontec as main router and D-Link plugged into a LAN port.  I powered my desktop on and proceeded to run Ventrilo and WoW.  Within the first half hour (no real activity was going on except forming the raid group and chatting -  I DC'd.  Figured this was like the prior evening where I DC'd once then everything ran fine.  The DC's continued during the fist hour of raiding and I was getting pretty aggravated, but we called for a 10 minute break.

I took the opportunity to turn off my desktop and the D-Link router and I then powered up the D-Link and once it appeared to be set I booted the desktop.  Proceeded to use Ventrilo and WoW and had a DC free rest of the evening.

Again I don't know why this solution helps out (double NAT?) and why I had to reset (setting?).  

Tonight I will be running a 25 man activity and we will see.  I probably will start without the reset to see if I get early DD's (before the 25 man).   I will probably reset the router before the raid just to be cautious. The Actiontec was rebooted on Friday, but no hard reset was performed.  Also except for the desktop, no other devices are hardwired into the routers.

[daybyday1]

This is very interesting. I got Fios in Oct 2009 I haven't been able to play WoW since. I never had a problem with Comcast. Now I Dc all the time, Vent will Dc as well but I do not lose internet connection. I too have the same Actiontec modem/router except mine is REV E. Thing is we shouldn't have to do a work around by using another router. We pay for this service and it should work out of the box.

I also have this problem with Starcraft 2 . So I think the problem is with Battle.net? Only happens with WoW and SC2 no other games give me this problem. I am so disappointed and I am stuck with Verizon for 2 years 😞

[Soupy1]

Yeah daybyday I agree this should be an out of the box no problem ability for such an "advanced" technology ...  Did you ever use the Verizon security solution (VISS)/using it now?  Have you tried this router to router test to see if it helps?  I hope to find out the cause not the bandage required to fix it.  As I first stated, out of the box the solution appeared tro work fine until I load VISS  ... but who knows for sure.  So as one contributor suggested, I should probably go back to a previous restore point.

I also have my WoW account using Battle.Net and never really put that in the equation as I thought the solution was fine until VISS was introduced.  I still need to try a test reverting bad my system to pre-VISS.  I am hesitant to do that, but may in a few days once folks see the results of my testing this evening (25 man) and comment.