4K Streaming

[tps316]

Will Verizon anytime soon take advantage of their fiber network to start streaming programming in 4K.  I believe there is not a huge technical issue as far as their network is concerned.

[CRobGauth]

Sure there is. they only have the same bandwidth for TV that most cable systems do.

And I am not sure there is any 4K content out there available to stream.

Not to mention too few customers with 4K TVs.

[film111]

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@CRobGauth wrote:

Sure there is. they only have the same bandwidth for TV that most cable systems do.

And I am not sure there is any 4K content out there available to stream.

Not to mention too few customers with 4K TVs.

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All very true.  Heck, Verizon can barely add an HD Channel!  And of course, There is no 4K material.  I believe the only thing you might get in 4K is "House of Cards."  but that's it.  There are not even any 4K Blu-Rays!  (There is some sort of 4K piece of tech from Sony that has a number of their films in 4K.  But it costs around $600.)   

[SinCara]

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@film11 wrote:

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@CRobGauth wrote:

Sure there is. they only have the same bandwidth for TV that most cable systems do.

And I am not sure there is any 4K content out there available to stream.

Not to mention too few customers with 4K TVs.

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There are not even any 4K Blu-Rays!  (There is some sort of 4K piece of tech from Sony that has a number of their films in 4K.  But it costs around $600.)   

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Actually Robocop (original) was just re-released in 4k on blu ray so I'm sure there are others. Slim pickings, but they are starting to come out.

[film111]

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@SinCara wrote:

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Actually Robocop (original) was just re-released in 4k on blu ray so I'm sure there are others. Slim pickings, but they are starting to come out.

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I think you're confused a bit...only natural considering how some of these things are worded.  ROBOCOP got a 4K scan but it is NOT a 4K Blu-Ray and does not display using 4K.  A lot of movies get 4K scans for Blu these days...JAWS, Criterion's A HARD DAY's NIGHT, etc.  My copy of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2 3D indicates that it is "Mastered in 4K".  But a movie being mastered in 4K doesn't mean that the Blu is 4K. (The 3D was great, tho!)  So those discs are NOT actually outputting anything in that format...the Blu-Ray standards were adopted years before 4K existed.   Right now, I don't think the Blu-Ray group has even settled on a standard for players yet.  I have heard that a 4K BD player MIGHT be out for Xmas 2015.  Time will tell.

[PJL]

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@CRobGauth wrote:

Sure there is. they only have the same bandwidth for TV that most cable systems do.

And I am not sure there is any 4K content out there available to stream.

Not to mention too few customers with 4K TVs.

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1) The OP asked about OP streaming (which is what VOD is), not "4k channels" which are the bandwidth limitation of the QAM system use by FiOS (and many other cable systems).   4K offered in a streaming mode is clearly possible with FiOS and the inherent IP bandwidth capabilities of the system would suit this well.  But it would involve new STBs since even the Quantum STBs do not support HVEC, the prevalent 4K UHD standard..

2) There is a lot of 4k UHD content available "to stream" including Netflix, YouTube and other sources on-line sources.  But if Verizon were to "stream" the content via the VOD process for movies, etc. content is currently available in 4k format for such VOD streaming.  DirecTV currently does this (their newer STBs support the 4K HVEC standard).   But again, the current FiOS STBs do not support HVEC, 

3) There are increasing numbers of 4K sets out there.  It wasn't too long ago that 1080p 50" flat panel TVs were around $3K.  Back then (about 5 years when I bought my last TV) the FiOS HD offerings were slim. and have increased to what they are now.  I just got a 65" 4k UHD set for $2.2K, and I have access to Netflix, YouTube and other on-line 4k streaming.  As the price drops and the adoption rate increases demand for 4K will increase too -- and eventually FiOS will catch up.  It will happen -- just don't expect it any time soon.  (And the HD content, upscaled to the 4k TV, is and improvement over 1080p display of the same content.)

This is just a data point from one very happy 4k UHD TV owner.

[film111]

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2) There is a lot of 4k UHD content available "to stream" including Netflix, YouTube and other sources on-line sources.  

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I don't think I'd categorize HOUSE OF CARDS and BREAKING BAD re-runs, and maybe 9 or 10 movies like SMURF 2 and HITCH on NF as "a lot."

[jwblyth]

Christmas was pretty no, (VERY) good to me this year!  OK, so I just got a new Vizio 55" uHDMI set and see that I can stream (some) Netflix in Ultra and I realize FiOS will not work for Ultra until they upgrade SetTops; although I initially thought that "Fiber Optic" would somehow always be the best connection...  And I know I am ignorant about all this video streaming and all, but,

I am having REAL DIFFICULTY understanding how Netflix or Amazon can stream Ultra to me when they need to go through the FiOS.  

I have the new Gateway FiOS router but have as yet not figured out how to optimize the 5GZ Wireless; and I yet I am also pretty sure the Ultra streaming does not  care nor is affected one way or the other; but HOW DO Amazon and Netflix manage (considering I have not as yet tried connecting either the new Smart TV or the new XboxOne directly to the Router)..so HOW DO they get their signal to me?

Something is missing in my understanding of how this technology works; of course.  Can anyone help explain this to me? 

[CRobGauth]

Simple.
Amazon, Netflix and otehr streaming providers don't have to worry about bandwidth to your house.

They have as much as you pay for.
Cable providers on the other hand, have a limited size pipe they can use.

Even though FIOS has fiver to your house, they use a technology called QAM that limits how much TV bandwidth they have to carry TV signals. If they carry more high bandwith channels, then they can carry less of them.

[joeterp1]

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@CRobGauth wrote:

Simple.
Amazon, Netflix and otehr streaming providers don't have to worry about bandwidth to your house.

They have as much as you pay for.
Cable providers on the other hand, have a limited size pipe they can use.

Even though FIOS has fiver to your house, they use a technology called QAM that limits how much TV bandwidth they have to carry TV signals. If they carry more high bandwith channels, then they can carry less of them.

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If you’re a Verizon FiOS customer, however, there is a silver lining to this story: When in fact 4K becomes a reality, your high bandwidth, fiber-to-the-home connection will already be capable of feeding your new monster UHD TV all the Ultra High Definition content that's available. Until then, sit back and enjoy your HDTV on FiOS TV, the highest quality video experience available to your home today.

http://www.verizon.com/about/news/fios-ready-4k-tv-when-ultra-hd-finally-goes-mainstream/

Also, if Comcast, DirecTV, and Dish are offering 4K via apps built into tvs or special STBs, why can't Verizon have a similar solution? Why would Verizon push out all these new Quantum STBs before they had 4K support?  Doesn't seem very forward thinking.

[marcisikoff]

Quite literally, we'll all have to wait for the broadcasters.

For example, under multicase, NBC might currently provide 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 all at between 720 and 1080.

Until they can see if they have bandwidth for all at UHD, nothing will change.

Since cable must carry thos signals, Fios and other MSOs cannot change until broadcast changes.

Then for satellite like AMC, A&E, Scripps, etc., those must transmit in UHD before MSOs can retransmit in UHD.

And don't forget the MSOs love talking about # of channels but who really watches SD if they have HD TV and enjoy the HD channel?

The # of channels game is for the niave.  And when they get UHD, they will likely drop SD and tout the # of channels they have but who with a 4K capable TV that can watch Food Network in 4K cares about also getting Food Network HD?

One more variable is the OTT issue... With Sling and others giving semi a la carte to us, the whole mega bundle of tiers will be reforming soon, so again no rush for UHD.

[Matt_Vz]

It's a bit early for 4K.  The technical standards are still being worked out. 

It may not be well known, but required items like HDMI 2.0, compression standards, content encruption, and video profiles (such at bit depth, bit rate, color gamut) are still being worked on. 

Some companies are experimenting with it now, but the big item missing in the puzzle is the content.  There just aren't that many titles yet, and most that are available are a few older movies or demonstration videos.  Even more visible players, like Neflix, only works on a few late model Samsung TVs right now.

This is a little like when HD first came on the scene in the mid 1990s.  It took a few years before it started getting adopted.

If you have a 4K set, the good news is that it's very smart, and should do a really good job on HD that's available now, and when 4K becomes more common, you're all set.

[film111]

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@Matt_Vz wrote:

It's a bit early for 4K.  The technical standards are still being worked out. 

It may not be well known, but required items like HDMI 2.0, compression standards, content encruption, and video profiles (such at bit depth, bit rate, color gamut) are still being worked on. 

Some companies are experimenting with it now, but the big item missing in the puzzle is the content.  There just aren't that many titles yet, and most that are available are a few older movies or demonstration videos.  Even more visible players, like Neflix, only works on a few late model Samsung TVs right now.

This is a little like when HD first came on the scene in the mid 1990s.  It took a few years before it started getting adopted.

If you have a 4K set, the good news is that it's very smart, and should do a really good job on HD that's available now, and when 4K becomes more common, you're all set.

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Which is why I'll wait,  Right now we know there is NO 4K content to watch on disc, cable, or satellite.  (As I noted earlier, the sole 4K movie source is Sony's Digital Player for only around $600.00!)  Plus, from what I've seen so far (as well as heard from others), while today's 4K sets look great with 1080p and 3D,  it does not handle upscaling 420p (DVD), 720p and 1080i (cable, satellite, and broadcast HD) very well.  So I will wait and let them work out the bugs. By then, prices should be better as well.   If I were buying a set today, I'd just look for the best HD (all resolutions), the best DVD upconversion, and good 3D.  Those things are available to enjoy now, not 3 - 5 years from now   Otherwise (to my mind) you just have a very expensive place-marker.

[optivity]

HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) H.265 w/4K compression is supposed to become the de facto standard used to stream Ultra HD content from source to your TV.

[celticpride1]

there may bemore 4k  here sooner than you think! I read that netflix also has breaking bad in 4k as well as some originals series of theres will be in 4k,also AMAZON PRIME now has  some 4k available for FREE if your a prime member,and DIRECTV already has a few shows in 4k plus they just launched a new  SATELLITE for 4k ,Which should start having more 4k content in the spring of 2015!

[film111]

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@celticpride wrote:

there may bemore 4k  here sooner than you think! I read that netflix also has breaking bad in 4k as well as some originals series of theres will be in 4k,also AMAZON PRIME now has  some 4k available for FREE if your a prime member,and DIRECTV already has a few shows in 4k plus they just launched a new  SATELLITE for 4k ,Which should start having more 4k content in the spring of 2015!

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Can you imagine back when 3D came out if they said "Well, there's nothing to watch now but Amazon and Netflix may have a few items a year from now....but no Blu or cable offereings.  Of course, there was plenty of 3D at inception, thankfully.  And since current 4K sets are weeker on displayimng 420, 720p, or 1080i, I'll wait until they get the bugs worked out.

[tns2]

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@optivity wrote:

HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) H.265 w/4K compression is supposed to become the de facto standard used to stream Ultra HD content from source to your TV.

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Which makes it less likely the current boxes will be able to handle it.  They would have to be awfully powerful CPU power to do it in Software(they're not), or have a decoder chip. 

[optivity]

I don't own a 4K Ultra HDTV and I doubt the ARRIS platforms are equipped with an onboard H.265 HVEC decoder, let alone support HDMI 2.0, so streaming ultra high-definition content is a moot point during the forseeable future.

If these specs/standards hold true this will lead to our next round of equipment upgrades around (5) years form now.

[film111]

The only advantage there is in getting a 4K set today is if it also has 3D.  That way, owners can utilize and enjoy content (via cable, satellite, streeaming, or Blu-Ray) that already exists.  Otherwise, it's best to wait until the 4K sets can improve their performance with 480, 720p, and 1080i material.

Of course, equipment upgrades will be required for 4K...you'll need a new Blu-Ray player, of course.  (MAYBE one will be out by Xmas 2015)...but I'd prefer to wait a year on those as well.  Audiophiles already are now having to buy new receivers in order to take advantage of the Dolby Atmos format which is now starting to be included on some Blu-Ray titles.

And there's yet ANOTHER tv upgrade being worked on for 2016!.  

[tns2]

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@film11 wrote:

The only advantage there is in getting a 4K set today is if it also has 3D.  That way, owners can utilize and enjoy content (via cable, satellite, streeaming, or Blu-Ray) that already exists.  Otherwise, it's best to wait until the 4K sets can improve their performance with 480, 720p, and 1080i material.

...

Most of the UHD TV's do a fabulous job with 420, 720p and 1080I material.  So that is not a reason to wait.

[copper45]

Verizon Fios data is a must to help push the 4k streaming, that is if they like to keep those customer that have fios and not have to deal with the chance of comcast or goggle pushing there weight around. Verizon idea of putting everything and everyone in the cellphone to be able to mtm will be the end of the best service and that is Fios.