Audio Quality Problem

[digitaldarknes5]

Hey everyone,

I live in Tampa, FL and I've had an audio quality issue (only on certain channels) ever since I got FiOS TV installed. On Discovery (120), Comedy Central, WGN (local) and all the home shopping channels, the audio sounds like AM Radio. It's not in stereo and it sounds absolutely aweful on all three of the STBs outputs (coax, rca, optical out).. I've called tech support at least 6 times and had tickets issued to an "NT" every time. They call back (when I'm not home to answer unfortunately) and tell me nothing is wrong and that it must be something at my house.. So they send a tech out, and the tech says everything is normal, all the signal levels are great, no issues found but admitted that it did sound really bad on those channels. This happens on all 4 STBs.. So I'm thinking this has got to be a problem at either the VHO (the big main office) for my area or the CO down the road.. The reason I think this is because ONE TIME, the "NT" fixed the problem.. I was watching when he did it.. Unfortunately, it only stayed fixed for one day. He said it had something to do with the software update and that it was a problem at the VHO, yet, no matter how many times I tell tech support to specifically put into the ticket that it has been fixed once by them, they never do fix it.. I'm really at a dead end here, constantly being cycled through tech support and having the NTs throw the monkey back on me saying it's my equipment, but I really don't think it is.. Does anyone have, or has had any issue like this, and if so, how did it get fixed?

[izub]

I live in the Seattle area...i have a similar issue 6 sd channels are absolutely awful sound loud and boomy...this is hooked up via optical...all my other 200 channels are perfect... 3 boxes, 3 techs to the house and it's my receiver they say...this is annoying as hell

[digitaldarknes5]

This got fixed for two days, now it's right back to AM-quality. Can we have some follow through or maybe a permanent solution?? This is really poor service, guys.... I'm still willing to renew my contract, but not if this isn't resolved.. I've been more than patient with this problem... If i called my local cable company with this complaint, I can almost guarantee that it would be fixed within a couple weeks... I don't think i'm asking for too much. Just fix the audio on Discovery and Comedy Central in Tampa.

[Drew_from_Dover]

The answer to the audio problem may not be what is heard, but what is seen. Seen via a spectral analysis. I've had someone from http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiostv post links for two WGN sound clips, one each from Verizon and Comcast. I opened both mp3s with my Adobe Audition and viewed them with spectral view to see ..

The Comcast clip had a naturally varying top end extending between 15,000 and 17,000 hertz depending on the original audio.

The Verizon clip had everything above 7,000 hertz chopped. It looked like a trimmed hedge.

This visually shows Verizon is putting out substandard audio without ambiguity. I also opened an mp3pro file (mp3 with SBR, HE-AAC is similar to mp3pro) and found the same top end chop as this mp3pro did not decode properly with my AA (this software can decode and encode SBR clips, just not this one). I'm not saying this is why, just that it is a similar situation.

Verizon needs to both look into the situation and look at the audio (through spectral analysis) to see the problem. Ears may deceive but eyes rarely lie. 😉

[Drew_from_Dover]

Once again I have AM sound on WGN, Comedy Central and Discovery in VH08. Here's the photo that shows the issue.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21983249-AM-quality-sound-on-Comedy-Central-WGN-and-others~start=20

The top image is Comcast while the bottom is Verizon SD, both are Comedy Central. I hope this can be monitored at Verizon by someone who cares about these kinds of things.

[Drew_from_Dover]

http://www.geocities.com/ajc_trw/sound.htm

I've started a page to visualize what bad sound looks like. The top graph is what Comcast viewers where hearing while viewing the same channel at the same time. The program had treble, but not for Verizon viewers.

[G-Pon]

Well, the Tampa and Seattle areas are definitely not served by the same VHO! (Video Hub Office) If you two guys (and any others having this issue) would please e-mail me on this site and give the channels numbers along with the channels names? The internal software has only global audio settings for all channels. It is highly unlikely the set-top box could foul a selected channel’s audio.

Any cable provider can only re-play to you what is sent to them, if the Food Channel sends bad looking sushi to Verizon, we have no other choice but to send it to you, but if we are getting a poor quality feed from one of those providers we probably would be able to get the NT ticket process to resolve it.

Thank you for the extra information and letting me look into it for you!

[izub]

I am in Kenmore Wa 98028...This is happenning as soon as I change the channel, all the time (and recordings also) only on these sd channels; 4 (abc)

 9 (pbs) ...11 KCTS)..... 13 (Fox) .....19 local news channel and... 23 some weird local station...It is so loud that it seems that my speakers will blow..

.I am hooked up via optical.. No problems playing  ANY other stations , DVD, radio etc...Thanks for any help...emailed to The Sanchez also...

[bull3964]

 Count me in.  Pittsburgh, 190 Comedy Central has horrible boomy audio.  Sounds like an old clock radio.  I know it's not the channel iteself because I've had the issue since I got FIOS and was able to compare between FIOS and Comcast when I still had it.  Audio was normal from comcast and really bad from FIOS.  So, if Verizon really is passing the audio exactly how they get it from Comedy Central, they need to follow up with CC because this isn't the audio quality they are sending to other providors.  This is the only station that I've noticed it on.

I posted a thread about this awile back and never got any responses on it.

[izub]

Same here...with Comcast no sound issues...Would not go back, picture and other HD channels are way better!

[vbdallas]

I am also experiencing the poor sound quality outside Dallas, TX - in Coppell specifically.  FX, Comedy Central, Discovery, Disney Channel, and about 7 others have noticeably bad sound.  It sounds like the audio is being transmitted at a very low bit rate.  It is most comparable to a poorly streamed audio file on the internet.  Sounds are garbled and "blown out."  It is almost like frequencies above and below a certain level are being clipped.

This is probably a direct result of squeezing too many channels in.  They reduce the bit rate on sound to an "acceptable level" and hope we don't complain. 

My FIOS is less than 1 month old and I have called tech support each of the last 3 weeks.  They do not have a clue what is wrong or how to fix it.  They are sending a tech out tomorrow to swap the box.  Sounds identical to Comcast's lame excuses.  "Oh, it must be your box sir.  We'll send a tech out between sunup and sundown to swap boxes." 

I am not going through this song and dance again.  I've already filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.  Verizon needs to fix this or I am taking my business elsewhere.

[digitaldarknes5]

Wow, my problems mirror yours. Word for word, same channels, everything. Only I'm in Tampa, FL.. So what gives, VZ?

[csellner]

New FIOS customer as of a little over a month.  I've noticed that sometimes the video comes in and out and tonight I think it was the whole connection because I was watching a program in delay by pausing in the beginning so I could FF through commercials.  Well, with 5 mins left in the delayed show, it lost connectivity and I wasn't even able to RW to see the end of the show!  This was using the component cable.  I also have HDMI so switched to that and the picture is better, but on the channels you mention with problems with audio, I don't have sound at all.

[bull3964]

I would like to add that this  has been partially resolved for me as of Monday.  I say partially for a few reasons.

It doesn't seem to stick.  While watching my recording of monday night's daily show, there was a blip in the broadcast, temporarly macro blocking, followed by no sound.  If I paused, and it pay again the sound was perfect, great quality, right volume.  The subsuqent Colbert Report recording was also flawless.  When I watched futurama live later that night it was also flawless.

Ok, what about the next day's recording of Daily Show?  The audio was reverted back to the poor quality (though, I will say the levels are matched much better so it doesn't stand out as bad from the other channels).  The whole run of the Daily Show was poor quality.  I then started playback of my Colbert Report recording.  There was poor audio for awhile, then a similar blip that I noted the day before followed by no audio.  I paused the DVR and hit play again and the audio came back and was high quality for the remainder of the episode.  However, at 1am for Futurama, the audio was reverted again.

So, it does seem like it's being worked on some.  It seems that something gets reset (which goofs up the transport stream to the point where the DVR loses the audio track until  you pause and restart), the audio quality is good for awhile, but then it slips back to poor quality later. 

Message Edited by bull3964 on 02-05-2009 07:39 AM

[digitaldarknes5]

I have also experienced something similar. I don't have a DVR, but there are times when I've been watching and there is a blip, and the audio goes up to high quality for a few hours, but then returns to poor quality. I agree that it might be something they're working on, but I'd really like it if someone would keep us posted as to what they're doing about it 😉

[vbdallas]

The audio problems occur while watching live TV.  The problems of course transfer to DVR if your record those particular channels.  Also, during the superbowl - the audio quality was noticeably reduced on a number of other channels that normally have no problems.  All of this indicates Verizon tampering with the bit rates.  Why don't they just get rid of some of the useless channels that nobody watches?

[vbdallas]

Update:

Verizon sent a tech out to my residence today and they tried swapping the box.  It did not fix the audio issues on the affected channels.  He did acknowledge the quality difference after comparing the affected channels to normal ones.  He said it could very well be the result of Verizon trying to stuff too many channels and reducing the bit rate on audio to make more room.  He also said Verizon probably would not do anything about it because it is considered a minimal problem without enough complaints.

I just spoke with a technical service rep and explained the issue for the fourth time.  He spoke with his supervisor and had the case escalated to the Network Team.  I will update this thread with the results.

Verizon - This is a service gap.  You make lofty promises about the quality of your FIOS TV service and build up customer expectations.  You fail to meet these expectations with substandard service.  You are no better than your competitors!  It's a different dog with the same fleas.

[digitaldarknes5]

Yeah, you know.. I'm really starting to agree with this.. How could you be running out of bandwidth on fiber optics though?? Honestly, if I wasn't under the 2-year contract, I'd consider switch back to Dish Network.

Why they choose the channels that they did to lower the bitrate on, I'll never know.. The Discovery channel and Comedy Central are POPULAR channels.. Why couldn't you do it to some other, less popular channel.. 😕

[digitaldarknes5]

Still haven't heard anything from VZ on this audio quality problem, here or elsewhere.. Comedy Central and Discovery channel still sound awful on ALL of my STBs. New ONT, signal levels in house have been checked/are perfect.. Verizon commericals come in with great audio quality on these same channels, but the actual network sounds terrible.. Muffled, like it's at a low bit rate.. I'm very disappointed that this is still a problem. It's almost enough to make me consider giving the axe to the TV service.. These are two VERY commonly watched channels in my house. I mean, it's not even something I can deal with it sounds so bad.. NO treble, very little bass... It sounds like I'm listening to it over AM radio.

Can Verizon please fix this?? The funny thing is-- It has been fixed before!! Shortly after a ticket was created, the audio quality was great on these channels, for about a day.. never been back to normal since then.. Who is in charge of ensuring the quality of the feeds and why aren't they doing their job? lol..  I'm usually not one to complain a whole lot, but this is really piss poor service. If you can't fix it, at LEAST tell me why.. Instead, the NT calls back and leaves me a voice mail "I don't know what could be going wrong, we'll have to send out another tech."

So far there have been about 5 tech visits to my house, and all equiment (except for the STBs) has been replaced. All cables have been checked, all signal levels (both from the ONT and from the CO) are perfect. There is NO PROBLEM AT MY HOUSE!! Please stop blaming this audio quality issue on me, admit that there is a problem on your end and fix it. Please!! 🙂 I'm begging you. Friends that have been to my house have decided to hold of on ordering FiOS TV because of this issue. The immediate response from anyone that turns to the affected channel(s) is "What the hell is wrong with the sound??" "It sounds like AM radio"

[Drew_from_Dover]

As long as this is a problem we should keep Verizon's feet to the fire. Verizon needs to have a number we can call connecting us to a live person who can tune into WGN and Comedy Central and confirm if it's their problem. DirecTV had a center where they monitored all of their channels for quality. I'm not sure if this is still the case. 

I would say it's AM quality (but not mono in my case as there was channel separation) but I'd also say it sounds like low sample rate digital audio, around 16kHz sampling rate.

I would also say it sounds like digital audio employing SBR (Spectral Band Replication)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_band_replication

but Verizon is not decoding the SBR component.

"If the player is not capable of using the side information that has been transmitted alongside the "normal" compressed audio data, it may still be able to play the "baseband" data as usual, resulting in a dull (since the high frequencies are missing), but otherwise mostly acceptable sound. This is for example the case if a mp3PRO is played back with an mp3 software incapable of utilizing the side information."

I wouldn't say Verizon is incapable, just inable to at times. Sorry this got long, but this problem has been going on too long as well.

[TheSanchez]

Hello,

While this is outside of my realm of support (i'm in ad insertion now) I can still look into this.  I have informed someone at corporate that looks at stuff like this.  She did a quick check on the week ending 5/23 and only found one ticket nationwide that was open for more than 24hours on either of these channels being reported.  So here's how you can help:

If you have called in and had tickets opened for this issue please PM them to me so I can pass them up the chain to the appropriate person.  If this happens frequently to you I can call over to your particular VHO and ask them to look at it there if it is happening when I get the PM (I can also slingbox in myself to listen to it).  Just PM me if this is severe enough for me to be able to see during my normal shift and I can call for you.  I troll these forums during my entire shift. 

If you are in VHO4 in Northern VA I have a dolby broadcast loudness meter that is hooked up and I can measure the levels on whatever channel I tune my STB to.  I can safely say that if it is outside of the range of -15dBu to -20dBu (our ads should run around  -20dBu) which would be why a lot of you are reporting them coming in loud and clear) we have a problem.  If you are hearing hissing Ss etc then it sounds like it may be over modulated. 

The main thing right now though is to get ticket numbers if you have called in and reported this in the past.  Please PM me the info. Also include date/times if you could please.   

On a side note, Verizon does not participate in bit rate tampering.  The only thing we do to the audio is take out mpeg2 audio and pass through only AC3.