Forced to “Upgrade” to Fios TV One (VMS4100ATV)

[lacticacidtrip1]

Following notices on my screen telling me “You Must Upgrade Your Set Top Boxes”, I finally did, and I’m already regretting it.

The first thing you will notice is that the remote is missing many familiar buttons, and with them some functions that have been around since the invention of the DVR.

1.) There is no more slow-motion or frame-by-frame. Want to see exactly what happened on the biggest play of the game? Well now you can’t!

2.) There is no way to clearly see the screen you have paused. When you press pause, the screen dims a little and displays program information at the bottom, then clears for a moment, then dims again and displays different program info.

3.) There is no skip forward button. To skip forward you must now press the Google Assistant button and say “skip forward ‘x’ minutes/seconds”. Or just use fast-forward, or program chaptering.

4.) There is no more DVR button. To get to your DVR menu you must either press the Google Assistant button and say “DVR”, or press the Home button, then down button twice, then OK. See, so much simpler than the old way of just pushing one button.

5.) You can set up your favorites in the guide, then set the guide to only display favorites. But you can no longer flip-by-favorites using your channel up/down buttons. Your only options are “flip all” or “flip subscribed”.

6.) All FF and Rewind Speeds are roughly half as fast as the old DVRs.

7.) Caller ID notifications (for those of us that still had a landline) are no longer available.

8.) While in the guide, the cursor is now always in the top row, not the middle. In that row it can move back and forth. The old guides kept the cursor stationary in the middle row and the guide would move around the cursor, unless you changed a setting to make it dynamic.

Among the other important things to know, the new boxes are only compatible with HDMI connections. There is no backward compatibility with older TV’s.

Fios TV One (VMS4100ATV) has a steep learning curve, both with its remote control and user interface. It is nothing like the previous models.

The buttons on the remote are black-on-black, with small fine gray/white print, and mostly smooth to the touch. Lacking tactile feedback, you often have to look at the remote instead of just feeling it. The on-screen information is rather small and fine print. You can increase the contrast, but you cannot make the print larger or bolder. Both of these changes will make it harder, if not impossible, for my visually-challenged mother to use.

I’ve only had these new boxes for less than 12 hours. The one in my living room has rebooted randomly many times now. Just manually ran all the updates for Android TV, Fios TV, the media server, and the remote control (you know, the things you assume would happen automatically during the install). Hope this fixes it.

I hope this first impression summary helps someone out there know what to expect when they are forced to “upgrade”.

I hate to state the obvious, Verizon, but taking away functions is not an upgrade. If it is your intention to get people to cut the cord and move to streaming, you are definitely helping your customers make that choice.

[dexman]

Actually, the older Motorola remote controls will work with the 4100 series STBs. One of our three users kept his old remote due to the separate power buttons for the television and the STB.

Now, we do not subscribe to the DVR service, so I can't vouch for those buttons on the controller. 😐

I am able to see Caller ID pop-ups on my television.

[lacticacidtrip1]

Hi dexman,

I had also read that I could use the old remotes, and was planning to. Unfortunately the new VMS4100ATV boxes have bluetooth-only paired remotes. The boxes do not use infrared controllers anymore. Not sure if they would take commands from earlier Fios One remotes as I do not have any to try. ☹️

[clem21]

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@lacticacidtrip1 wrote:

Hi dexman,

I had also read that I could use the old remotes, and was planning to. Unfortunately the new VMS4100ATV boxes have bluetooth-only paired remotes. The boxes do not use infrared controllers anymore. Not sure if they would take commands from earlier Fios One remotes as I do not have any to try. ☹️

---

@lacticacidtrip1 wrote:

Hi dexman,

I had also read that I could use the old remotes, and was planning to. Unfortunately the new VMS4100ATV boxes have bluetooth-only paired remotes. The boxes do not use infrared controllers anymore. Not sure if they would take commands from earlier Fios One remotes as I do not have any to try. ☹️

---

---

 See my post above.

[clem21]

---

@lacticacidtrip1 wrote:

Following notices on my screen telling me “You Must Upgrade Your Set Top Boxes”, I finally did, and I’m already regretting it.

The first thing you will notice is that the remote is missing many familiar buttons, and with them some functions that have been around since the invention of the DVR.

1.) There is no more slow-motion or frame-by-frame. Want to see exactly what happened on the biggest play of the game? Well now you can’t!

2.) There is no way to clearly see the screen you have paused. When you press pause, the screen dims a little and displays program information at the bottom, then clears for a moment, then dims again and displays different program info.

3.) There is no skip forward button. To skip forward you must now press the Google Assistant button and say “skip forward ‘x’ minutes/seconds”. Or just use fast-forward, or program chaptering.

4.) There is no more DVR button. To get to your DVR menu you must either press the Google Assistant button and say “DVR”, or press the Home button, then down button twice, then OK. See, so much simpler than the old way of just pushing one button.

5.) You can set up your favorites in the guide, then set the guide to only display favorites. But you can no longer flip-by-favorites using your channel up/down buttons. Your only options are “flip all” or “flip subscribed”.

6.) All FF and Rewind Speeds are roughly half as fast as the old DVRs.

7.) Caller ID notifications (for those of us that still had a landline) are no longer available.

8.) While in the guide, the cursor is now always in the top row, not the middle. In that row it can move back and forth. The old guides kept the cursor stationary in the middle row and the guide would move around the cursor, unless you changed a setting to make it dynamic.

Among the other important things to know, the new boxes are only compatible with HDMI connections. There is no backward compatibility with older TV’s.

Fios TV One (VMS4100ATV) has a steep learning curve, both with its remote control and user interface. It is nothing like the previous models.

The buttons on the remote are black-on-black, with small fine gray/white print, and mostly smooth to the touch. Lacking tactile feedback, you often have to look at the remote instead of just feeling it. The on-screen information is rather small and fine print. You can increase the contrast, but you cannot make the print larger or bolder. Both of these changes will make it harder, if not impossible, for my visually-challenged mother to use.

I’ve only had these new boxes for less than 12 hours. The one in my living room has rebooted randomly many times now. Just manually ran all the updates for Android TV, Fios TV, the media server, and the remote control (you know, the things you assume would happen automatically during the install). Hope this fixes it.

I hope this first impression summary helps someone out there know what to expect when they are forced to “upgrade”.

I hate to state the obvious, Verizon, but taking away functions is not an upgrade. If it is your intention to get people to cut the cord and move to streaming, you are definitely helping your customers make that choice.

---

You could get one of these and use the old remotes:

https://www.verizon.com/home/accessories/ir-adapter-for-fios-tv-plus

The changes were to make the new system work as a streaming box. Unfortunate for people that liked the old well worn system. You could also look into one of these if your connection keeps dropping out. :

https://www.verizon.com/support/residential/tv/equipment/stream-tv-landing/moca

Remember, if the VMS is too close to the router, you will get dropouts as it seems to overload with too strong a signal.

[lacticacidtrip1]

Good information, clem21.

I didn't realize that the IR adapter would fit this. It may not give the new boxes back some of the functions that they have lost, but at least it would give a familiar feel back. I also didn't know the router could be too close to the VMS.

I have one of those stream tv boxes in a distant room of my house. So far my issue I'm having isn't a signal breakup, but one of the little STBs rebooting randomly. Sometimes you'll see it glitch and recover, or glitch and go down. But most of the time it just resets with no warning. Happened many times on day one, only once so far after all the updates were installed on day 2.

[clem21]

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@lacticacidtrip1 wrote:

Good information, clem21.

I didn't realize that the IR adapter would fit this. It may not give the new boxes back some of the functions that they have lost, but at least it would give a familiar feel back. I also didn't know the router could be too close to the VMS.

I have one of those stream tv boxes in a distant room of my house. So far my issue I'm having isn't a signal breakup, but one of the little STBs rebooting randomly. Sometimes you'll see it glitch and recover, or glitch and go down. But most of the time it just resets with no warning. Happened many times on day one, only once so far after all the updates were installed on day 2.

---

If you have two small boxes try swapping them and see what happens. If it follows the box, you may have a bad box or power supply. If it keeps glitching, have them replace both the box and power supply.

[gineen912]

Agree 100%. I’m ready to leave Verizon. I have been a customer for over 30 years. This new equipment is awful. I’m looking into xfinity. I’m also calling to get some kind of different equipment. This is not an upgrade!  Call and complain. 

[tinker001]

Just wait until you decide you're having hearing problems. I've had this forced setup for about three weeks, I have a lot of complaints:

1. My Samsung  One Remote is utterly useless, yet there's still settings that need access to on a regular;

2. VOLUME, THE VOLUME IS SO LOW THAT I HAVE TO HAVE MY TV TURNED UP HIGH. THIS IS BAD WHEN I FORGET AND SWITCH TO A TV APP.  Yes, the new Verizon box now carries our apps like Prime, HULU, Netflix, etc., but they are just as hard to hear through the Verizon box as normal TV (And before you make the suggestion, I have held the talk button and said Volume Max already). 

3. The server box (vms4100atv) in my home office hums. It doesn't bother me, but my wife works from home and little noises bother her (our HP network printer does the same thing, but we turn it off when not in use).;

4.  The remote feels backwards in my hand with the circular pad at the top instead of the usual numbers;

5. The DVR setup is horrible, I haven't been able to figure out how to only have one channel out of three (SD/HD/some 1000 number), record my show. I pay for HD DVR, why are the other SD/1000 channels even an option?

6. I have my own Raspberry Pi powered Plex server, why do I need the server box at all?  6a. Can I disconnect the server or is it needed for that tiny TV box? Does it really need to be connected right next to my router? I have COAX  RG-59 and CAT6 in all of my rooms, can I move it to an unoccupied space like a closet?

7. I miss the clock.  I found a nice white number digital clock to take its place, (Amazon B0BYRJSL25 Peakeep Digital Alarm Clock)  

8. Now I need to get some of those black metal round stickers to cover the annoying LED on both boxes. 

[lacticacidtrip1]

Hi tinker001,

I don’t have many answers for you. But I might have a couple. Then I’ll post another rant about all the other disabilities I’ve found in this newest latest greatest evolution of Verizon genius.

1.) Yeah, I’ve got nuthin’ for this one.

2.) Hearing aids for you? 😯

3.) Noise canceling headphones for your wife? 😁 (actually, see answer 6)

4.) Turn the remote upside down? 🤔

5.) The DVR is horrible! (More on that later.) I regularly record most of my shows in SD because it takes up less DVR space. I record things like sports in HD to see them more clearly. The 1000 range of channels is for the Spanish package lineup. They are duplicates that are bunched together up there, but because they’re in your package, you get them. The old DVRs had options like only record in SD/HD, only certain timeslots, only record on certain channels, don’t record duplicates. Now, if you searched for a program, it might give you a result that fails to differentiate between SD and HD channels, so you’re guessing. Better to find it in the guide and set it to record from the channel you want. To keep the program from recording on all channels at the same time, go to My DVR > Series priority > Recording settings > Record all channels > Off

6.) I don’t know what your Raspberry Pi is, but it sounds yummy! 😋 For the rest of us, the VMS box is the heart of your DVR service. But it can be placed elsewhere as long as:

• It is connected to a power outlet. (Duh!)
• It is connected to your router in some way (within range of wireless, ethernet cable, moca adapter).
• It is connected to a coax line that is connected back to the ONT through compatible 2-way MoCA splitter(s).
• Its new location is large enough or well-ventilated enough to not let the VMS overheat.
• If your little box is connected directly to the VMS, you’ll have to disconnect it and run the line to another USB power emitter (ac adapter or always-powered USB port.)

7.) Love it!

8.) The tiny box has a setting that can dim the LED a little. (Settings > Fios TV Device > Device settings > LED brightness > Low). But to black them out, get a paper hole punch and black electrical tape… Voila!

Hope this helps, and don't blame me if it doesn't.

[lacticacidtrip1]

Part 2

Keep an eye on your bill after the upgrade, people.

16 days after I signed the upgrade agreement, and 3 days after the installation, I got a notice from Verizon changing the terms. Despite everything stating that customers forced to upgrade would not be charged more than they were already paying for equipment, the new bill jumped my equipment prices by $15/month. It took a 45-minute phone call and a migraine headache to reach a temporarily satisfactory agreement. But the issue of why it happened remains “to be investigated”.

OH! And don’t you dare try to upgrade using the website. It was even worse. It told me I could get the equipment upgrade, the newest router, and upgrade the channel package to Ultimate for $3 less per month than I was currently paying. After I said yes, it sent me an estimate of $27/month more!

What’s right about the new system

Before continuing to list the many things that are unforgivably wrong with this new DVR system, I will list the things that they seem to have gotten right:

• The new DVRs have 6 tuners. That means up to 6 simultaneous recordings on 6 different channels.
• The streaming platform is much improved. Your ability to use forward and back directionals to quickly navigate the timeline through small chapter windows is seamless.
• Being able to skip ads on recorded programs by speaking to the remote to say “forward 4 ½ minutes” is a nice job.

And that’s the end of that.

Now back to the naughty list.

Channel buffering is now random. (Channel buffering – when you leave the DVR on a channel and it allows you to rewind and watch up to 1 hour of programming.) The old DVRs would record this hour of programming on the last 2 channels you viewed, whether or not the DVR was turned on. So, I would leave the DVR tuned to a news channel before shutting it off for the night. Then rewind the last hour of news in the morning. The new DVRs CAN buffer the last hour of up to 6 channels. But they will frequently drop their buffer cache without reason. Now the only way to keep one channel buffered is to keep the TV turned on and tuned to that channel 24/7. If you change the channel, start a recording, watch a recorded program, stream a video, or turn off the box, any of these actions may or may not result in the DVR dumping its buffer cache.

The DVR no longer holds your place when switching between channels. The old DVR would let you pause the channel you were on, switch over to a different channel, then switch back again and continue from where you paused. The new DVRs push you to the live feed when you switch back, forcing you to rewind. And that’s IF they kept it in the buffer at all. No more switching back and forth between two live games.

Vocal shuttle commands only work on recorded programs. One of the examples Verizon lists for vocal commands you can give the DVR is, “Jump Back 1 Hour”. I assumed that this would be for rewinding the hour-long buffer for a live channel. Then I discovered that vocal commands do not work on live TV. They only work on recorded programs. Why would you be watching a recorded program and think, “I need to rewind 1 hour”? Maybe start over, or go back 5 minutes, but not 1 hour.

While the vocal commands don’t work for live TV, you can press the down arrow twice while watching a channel and you will arrive on a soft button that auto-toggles to 1 of 3 settings: Jump back, Start over, Jump to live. The first allows you to go all the way back to the beginning of that channel’s buffer. The second allows you to go back to the beginning of the program, if it started less than 1 hour ago. The third is if you are already rewound, it will take you back to live TV. Why is this in the naughty list? Because you can’t choose between the first 2 options. If a new program started within the buffer, you can only choose option 2, then rewind from there to the beginning of the buffer. And option 3 used to be a single button push on the remote control. Now you have to down arrow to find it. So, while these options are a slight improvement, they are still not quite right.

The DVR options are pathetically lacking:

You cannot set up manual recordings. You either tape the whole show and use options to extend it, or you get nothing. Setting up partial program recordings is not possible. Also, if you are backed up and see something in the last program you want to tape, you can’t.

When you use search to find a show, it fails to differentiate between SD and HD, or give channel numbers in the result. So you are guessing which channel you are taping.

You cannot set the recording to only record SD/HD.

You cannot set the DVR to not record duplicate programs.

You cannot set up to only record a program in a certain timeslot. So, the program you want to tape isn’t marked as new, but plays several times per week. Since you cannot set to ‘not record duplicates’, setting up timeslots would stop duplicate recordings.

If you set the DVR to record a program on all channels, it will record the same program at the same time on up to 3 different channels. No one would want this to happen. Record on all channels should mean record different episodes on any channel, not record the same episode at the same time on different channels.

Now to the ridiculous guide setup:

This guide moves and fills much faster than the old one. But that’s because it has to.

There is no longer a way to skip day-by-day to get where you want to be quickly. Instead, you can hold the forward button down, and watch the hours of the day go flying by at lightspeed. Then if you’ve held it down through 24 hours of hour-by-hour, it begins to flip day-by-day. Best of luck to you rolling the roulette wheel and landing in the right spot.

Gone are the color codes that differentiate between types of program. It’s all black-and-white now.

The new and improved search and voice search option. The good news is the vocal commands always understand what I am saying. The bad news is, they rarely give me what I’m asking for. For example: When I ask for "skating", I’m looking for figure skating events to watch during the holidays. The result could simply say that there are no scheduled events in the next 2 weeks. Instead, it gives me nearby places I can go skating in my area! No, not a joke.

Glitches:

Pressing the Replay button 3 or more times in succession can result in a frozen picture with audio playing in the background, or a moving picture that is out of sync with the audio. To fix it, you have to stop the playback, change the channel, or turn off the box.

Several times now when I finish watching a DVR program and delete it, my DVR Recordings list will be blank and shows no recordings. The recordings are not actually gone, but to get my list to show up again I have to press the back button, or press it twice to exit DVR and then go back to DVR.

The first box that was installed in my living room had tons of issues. It had frequent reboots. They happened less frequently but continued even after updates. I swapped it for the one in my kitchen, and other than the glitches mentioned above, it’s been very stable so far. So I’m thinking at least one of my 3 boxes are bad. Still have to put the 3rd one through its paces.

Built in bias?

I watch a lot of news. Mostly BBC, CNN International, Fox, and locals. Under “My most watched networks” it lists MSNBC, but none of the others. Hmm…

Conclusion:

So 5 days into my “upgrade” and my overall impression is that this is a downgrade. This product might be promising, but it was far from ready to be pushed out to market. At this premium price point, these boxes should be flagships in the industry. Sadly, they are behind the curve.

[DA406yes]

You are absolutely right in all respects. Plus keys are so small that if you’re over 10 yrs old it’s very hard not to push 2 keys at once. And the edges of the remote are sharp so it cuts into your palm. 
this is no upgrade. System designed by someone who doesn’t watch tv

[lacticacidtrip1]

Glitch: While watching Live TV or a DVR recording, press OK to pause. Then press Guide. As the screen shrinks down and the guide displays beneath it, the program starts playing again automatically. There is no way to keep the program from playing while using the guide.

This is my day 7. Did anyone even bother to beta test these?

[lacticacidtrip1 · Accepted solution]

My final Verdict:

After more than 17 years with Verizon Fios cable, landline and internet, this “Upgrade” was the final straw for me. These new boxes not only have a multitude of functionality losses compared to DVRs 15-years older, but they also have endless playback glitches including screen freezes, A/V sync issues, erroneous error codes, disconnections, and even reboots. These are all very frustrating and have to be solved by backing out and returning to recordings, or backing out and rewinding live channels, or even manually rebooting boxes. These boxes were NOT ready for market and should never have been released as the upgrade option. Had I received an original Fios TV One system, I might still be paying for this over-priced all-in-one service. But these boxes had me start seriously looking at Verizon’s near-peer streaming competitors. These new boxes along with “recent” channel losses were it for me. I’ve cut the cord.

I’m staying with Fios internet, but my cable and landline are now history. Best of luck to you all. Hope the posts I’ve put here over the years have been helpful.

[kh_jenn]

Hi lacticacidtrip1, Your issue has been escalated to a Verizon agent. Please check your Private Messenger Inbox for a message from a Verizon Support agent. You can find your Inbox by clicking on the envelope icon next to your avatar at the top right corner of this page. Response times may vary. Please continue to check your Inbox for a reply from a Verizon agent. Please direct all correspondence concerning your issue to the agents who will be assisting you privately. Thank you.