ONT ethernet to 3rd party router, ONT coax to Tivo Bolt??
panfam13
Enthusiast - Level 1

Hello, 


I know this topic has been discussed, but i don't see  it with TIVO specifically. 

I currenty use TIVO Bolt with cable card for TV, and Actiontec router for internet. 


Can I enable the ethernet on the ONT, and connect a 3rd party router directly to ONT, while at the same time connect the coax from ONT to the TIVO directly??

Since TIVO obtains guide information on it's own, I would assume this setup is possible. 

Does this make sense??

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lasagna
Community Leader
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Sure ... there should be no problem with that.   Have Verizon provision you for Ethernet handoff for Internet -- easy enough, you can use your own router for the gateway then (this is exactly what I do).   Second, I would install a LoPass filter where the coax exits the ONT to filter off and block egress of any MoCA signals.  Lastly, configure  your Bolt for internet over WiFi (although I'd recommend using Ethernet if possible since if you want to utilize streaming services -- either to watch recordings from outside the home or to access any of the streaming services like Netflix from the TiVO, you'll get a better performance from Ethernet).

Note that if you have or plan to use any TiVO remote boxes for other TV's, then you will need to either cable via Ethernet (both boxes) or connect the TiVO remote to the Coax cable plant (TiVO will not do device to device IP streaming that the remote units utilize over WiFi).

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panfam13
Enthusiast - Level 1

I'm trying to get away from using any verizon hardware (other than the ONT of course), and not have to use MOCA either. 

So for internet I'd have my own router connected to the ONT via ethernet. 

For TV having coax connect to TIVO for tv signal. 


Wifi giving TIVO internet connectivity for guide download. 


Does this makes sense??

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lasagna
Community Leader
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Sure ... there should be no problem with that.   Have Verizon provision you for Ethernet handoff for Internet -- easy enough, you can use your own router for the gateway then (this is exactly what I do).   Second, I would install a LoPass filter where the coax exits the ONT to filter off and block egress of any MoCA signals.  Lastly, configure  your Bolt for internet over WiFi (although I'd recommend using Ethernet if possible since if you want to utilize streaming services -- either to watch recordings from outside the home or to access any of the streaming services like Netflix from the TiVO, you'll get a better performance from Ethernet).

Note that if you have or plan to use any TiVO remote boxes for other TV's, then you will need to either cable via Ethernet (both boxes) or connect the TiVO remote to the Coax cable plant (TiVO will not do device to device IP streaming that the remote units utilize over WiFi).

mfizzy
Specialist - Level 1
Moca 1.1 (I believe) is from ont (if capable) to router. It is also between router and older cable boxes. Moca 2 is only between router and quantum tv boxes.
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tns2
Community Leader
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@hlppls wrote:
Moca 1.1 (I believe) is from ont (if capable) to router. It is also between router and older cable boxes. Moca 2 is only between router and quantum tv boxes.

I don't know if they have any ONT's yet that do MOCA 2.0.  And interestingly only the Quantum Gateway router does Moca 2.0 to the STB.  The VMS ends up talking directly to the IP (and 2nd VMS) boxes using Moca 2.0 but all of them use 1.1 to the rev I router.

mfizzy
Specialist - Level 1
Rev I does moca 2 as well to vms
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tns2
Community Leader
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@hlppls wrote:
Rev I does moca 2 as well to vms

No.  The rev I only supports moca 1.1.  It has no support for moca 2.0 .

Capricorn1
Community Leader
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I left out other switches, printers, A/V receiver, Blu-Ray, other laptops/desktops to reduce clutter, but this is notionally what I have today.

image

lasagna
Community Leader
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Nice drawing Capricorn1 ... could you not leave out the ethernet connection to the Tivo however since you have the NIM acting as the MoCA bridge?  Or do the older TiVO's not do MoCA?  My setup looks very similar except I don't have the ethernet to the TiVO since my Roamio does MoCA directly and my bridge is an ECB3500T.

You're drawing also demonstrates a good point -- that you can use a Verizon STB if you have a MoCA bridge.   Folks should note however that if this were a DVR, you would not be able to use Verizon's portal or app to remotely program it unless you determined the proper port forwards.

Capricorn1
Community Leader
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@lasagna wrote:

Nice drawing Capricorn1 ... could you not leave out the ethernet connection to the Tivo however since you have the NIM acting as the MoCA bridge?  Or do the older TiVO's not do MoCA?  My setup looks very similar except I don't have the ethernet to the TiVO since my Roamio does MoCA directly and my bridge is an ECB3500T.

You're drawing also demonstrates a good point -- that you can use a Verizon STB if you have a MoCA bridge.   Folks should note however that if this were a DVR, you would not be able to use Verizon's portal or app to remotely program it unless you determined the proper port forwards.


My (ancient) TiVo Premiere HD (Series 3? Version 3? Something like that.) uses an Ethernet connection for the programming guide, updates to the TiVo itself and I think VOD (for Amazon, NetFlix). I don't think it gets any guide info unless it's connected. I did have to set up firewall rules in both directions so that the TiVo app on my phone or the web site can talk to it. I had to set up firewall rules for the NIM 100, too, for that matter. The Verizon STB box, though, gets everything off the coax.

lasagna
Community Leader
Community Leader

The newer Roamio and I suspect the Bolt (since it's newer still) will both use MoCA if it's available to get to the internet - eliminating the need for an ethernet connection -- provided you're on FiOS and have a MoCA based router installation.  I use MoCA on my Roamio -- only connection to it -- and get all services (TV, guide data, streaming, etc.).

Likewise, both now use the TiVO portal website to enable the remote access capability, so the port forwards are no longer required either.

Capricorn1
Community Leader
Community Leader

When I was looking up the data sheets for the equipment I have, I found out that the ONT I have, the Tellabs 1600-611, doesn't support MoCA. The next model, the 1600-612, did support MoCA, though it doesn't say which version, so I suspect it's 1.0. So, at the time they installed FiOS TV here, the only choice was to use something like a NIM-100 and feed it an Ethernet cable. In my case, since they installed one ONT (1600-610) for my business Internet connection and another ONT (1600-611) just for FiOS TV, they actually ran a second Ethernet to it and restricted it to just traffic for the NIM-100. I'm not using the 610 any more.

If my ONT, the NIM-100 or the one remaining Verizon STB ever die, which is a real possibility given their ages, I suspect some rearchitecting will be needed. Also, the ONT I have maxes out at 100 Mbps service on the Ethernet connection. Not a problem for me currently, but maybe in the future.

CRobGauth
Community Leader
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Do you have quantum? If not, I would be surprised if that setup would support it as VMS is moca 2.0

Capricorn1
Community Leader
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@CRobGauth wrote:

Do you have quantum? If not, I would be surprised if that setup would support it as VMS is moca 2.0


What is this "Quantum" of which you speak? Quantum Leap? Loved that show. The game Quantum Break? Haven't bought it yet. Smiley Wink

Naw. My equipment is so old, the CC text looks like this. (Closest thing to Old English available.)

If I decide on any number of upgrades, I'm likely looking at replacing something in the loop. My current router is a Linux box. It's maybe the fourth or fifth iteration I've had. Started with a Pentium 200, but now it's a dual core Intel 6300, 4 GB RAM, a couple disks in RAID 1 etc. Works well for me, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for everyone.

Capricorn1
Community Leader
Community Leader

So, the diagram with the missing coax would look like:

image

mfizzy
Specialist - Level 1

Missed one thing in drawing. You need a coax leg that goes back to ONT for tv signal.

Capricorn1
Community Leader
Community Leader

@hlppls wrote:

Missed one thing in drawing. You need a coax leg that goes back to ONT for tv signal.


I was going to say that I don't have one, but I believe I do. I may have to go pop the cover off my ONT. I was thinking that the ONT was either Ethernet or coax, but not both. However, I'm fairly sure that there is a coax snaked along outside from the ONT along the edge channel for my vinyl siding along the roof line and into my attic where I had originally split the signal for all the rooms when I had DirecTV. I switched to Fios like a decade ago, and I'd completely forgotten about it. The ONT is outside (along with that wire), but everything else is inside in a closet.

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lasagna
Community Leader
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Provided you have no Verizon STB's in the house -- only TiVO -- you can do this.   I have a Roamio, but it's the same principle.

You connect the coax to the Bolt, connect the 3rd party router to the ONT ethernet (and get Verizon to change the handoff from MoCA to Ethernet for Internet) and then either:

1. Install a MoCA bridge as the previous poster indicated such as the ECB2500 between a local LAN port on the router and the Coax cable plant (your Bolt needs a path to the internet for guide data).

2. Connect the Bolt via it's ethernet port to the local LAN and configure it for Ethernet vs MoCA in the setup.

You also remove and return the ActionTec router -- it's not needed.

Verizon does not  support this setup (i.e. won't troubleshoot it since you don't have their router in the picture), but it works just fine.

Also, I would install a lo-pass line filter on the coax at the ONT if you use option #1 above to keep any MoCA signal from leaking out toward the ONT (or Verizon MoCA from coming in) just to be safe and insure no frequencies conflict.

Capricorn1
Community Leader
Community Leader

That's more or less what I have. I have Ethernet on the ONT going into a (Linux) router on one Ethernet port (think WAN connection on any home router). Coming out of the router on another Ethernet port (think LAN connection on any home router), I have Ethernet to a Motorola NIM-100 MoCA adapter. That is very outdated MoCA 1.0 device. You'd use something like an Actiontec ECB6000 or ECB6200 with any modern setup. That converts the Ethernet to cable at the proper frequencies. I have coax going into a dual channel cable card in a TiVo Premiere HD, which gets the FIOS video signal. I also have Ethernet running to the TiVo for the guide programming and for video on demand, NetFlix, Amazon Prime video, etc. My A/V receiver and Blu-Ray player also connect to the Internet for VOD, but they are strictly Ethernet connected.