Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

Aaron, i would suggest you send microsoft and verizon your regards about your dissatisfaction with the phone and their services. They at least have control over what features are put in and left out of their products. Trying to argue with other owners on a forum that specifically is for this phone will yield nothing productive. Regarding the data plans: Verizon used to offer a $15 limited data plan, but it seems that was axed the end of january (which is weird, cause they only started that plan last october..short life). So now they do require the full $30 plan but i wasn't aware of this since i was done shopping for a phone for the next 2 years, in december. All the smartphones require a data plan, unless you pull some strings.  At least to my knowledge; if you know the Verizon-protocol way of getting a smartphone without the data plan, there are many of us, including me, that would like to know. However, if you mean by buying the phone from a separate vendor and then activating it, to my knowledge, that will not work. Verizon automatically tacks on the data plan if it sees that you have activated a 'smartphone', as do all the other major cell phone providers these days. And you talk about getting an unlocked phone; yes, i know they are out there. But i like doing things 'by the books', if you will. Being such an advocate for them, i am wondering why you don't own one and instead settled for a kin twom.

 

With all due respect, you are on a forum where other owners and potential shoppers are looking for positive output and insight to the phones; that doesn't necessarily mean just pro's and leave out con's, but many of your posts have negative connotations that don't necessarily yield in helpful information for the people that search these forums. I am sorry that you are dissatisfied.

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
kinkurious
Newbie

I'm seriously thinking of going for a Kin TwoM.

Lotsa talk here about features existent, not existent, working well, or working poorly.

 

Question about synching photos and video with my laptop:  How does it work?

I mean, after all the hassles with Zune get worked out...

Is there a USB cable to attach phone to laptop?

If no cable, what do you use?

Is there any real 'synching' at all?

If there is synching, can you control how much is synched, or what types of files are synched?

If there's no synching, do vids or pics have to be emailed to yourself via a WIFI connection?

 

Sorry for redundancy.  This intriguing phone raises lots of questions too.

Not to mention a sense that I won't know my biggest questions until after I purchase it, due to all that odd MS/Verizon choices about what to include and what to disable.

Thanks.

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
aaronsaund
Enthusiast - Level 3

You can report me if I am being too malicious for you. I enjoy owning this phone and it's disappointing to see how much they gimped it and how llittle faith and support they put into the product. I'm speaking about both Verizon and Microsoft. Not only were the original phones rushed but they marketed this all wrong. They could have made the next gen sidekick and it would have sold like hotcakes. Instead of brushing these under the rug they could have took a new approach. I guess it was too much of an investment and they didn't care about letting down their customers.

 

Maybe I am entirely wrong and everyone loves their Kin and they are almost done selling the whole lot of them and thinking about making more.

 

And buying a phone unsubsidized or used is not against policy. The data plans are just inane. No one should be required to buy a data package if they already own the phone. It's LAME!

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

I'm not going to report you, but i'm sure everyone that visits these forums (including me) would rather have respectable posts and would take them more seriously if they weren't in direct attack of microsoft/verizon, or other forum visitors for that matter.

 

There is no one out there denying that they screwed up; it's pretty obvious they did. They didn't flat out rush it, they had internal problems and went from one almost complete OS, to a completely different one based off Windows CE. That set them back almost 2 years, and in the phone business, that is an eternity. That is why many features on here feel outdated, and that is why they had to just release what they had. But it isn't to say that their customers didn't know of all of it before-hand; or to better state it, it isn't to say that their customers shouldn't have known about its problems before-hand. With the original Kins, yeah i can understand cause no one really knew what it was, but with anyone buying a Kin 2m/1m, you know what you are getting, and it is as simple as do you let the good features outweigh the bugs and 'incompleteness', or do you let the bugs outweight the features. I respect your opinion, but the sentence 'I enjoy owning this phone and it's disappointing to see how much they gimped it and how little faith and support they put into the product' isn't quite coherrent.

 

Not everyone loves their kin; read the product reviews, about 1/3 of them dread it. But the big difference is, those that hate them don't stick around with them and don't stick on that specific phone's forums. And regarding the phone's support, you can pick out any feature phone, and none of those have top-notch support either; they won't be getting any updates or anything. The one big difference between those and this, is they are 'complete' phones and were advertised by verizon, whereas the Kin m's were re-released under a bad name of their failed predecessors. Yeah, it boggles me too why they didn't fix bugs they already knew about such as forwarding texts and so on when they already were editing the firmware.

 

Regarding buying the unsubsidized or used phones: yes, it is completely fine, i never said anything otherwise. Yes, i believe data plans are over the top and hence i don't have one or want one. What i simply stated is even if you do buy a 'smartphone' and try to activate it with your current non-data plan, you will automatically have a data plan activated with it. You can go ahead and try it. And unless you pull strings regarding that (activating a smartphone without a data plan being tacked on), it is 'required' per verizon policy, and any other cell service provider at that (at least with the big 4). The way around that is with an unlocked phone, like you said. I know people who have androids, iPhones, and you name it, without a data plan. But i just prefer staying with the non-unlocked phone; reasons why, i can provide, but they really don't matter cause i'm not going to get an unlocked phone. I'd rather just fork out the cash for a data plan if i wanted a smartphone that bad. But since you advocate them so much, i was simply stating i'm pretty surprised you don't own one, and have a Kin 2m instead. Yeah, requiring a data plan is pretty lame..but you aren't required to get it if you think about it. If you already own the phone, you can use all of the functions of the phone perfectly fine; but the moment you try to activate it with verizon, try to 'subscribe' to verizon's phone service, you then become subjugated into Verizon's policies. Common business practice; you want to be a customer, you agree. You don't like the policies and don't agree, then you aren't a customer.

 

The part that almost 'inclines' you to be a customer is the fact that all the service providers (again, i speak of all in regard to the big 4; sprint, verizon, tmobile, and at&t) do the same thing regarding data plans and smartphones, and that is the flaw that allows those companies to do this, the fact that it is 'quazi-monopolized' and there isn't a competitor to the policy. Look at Europe, Asia, their phones are far superior to whatever we have here, and i'm sure their service providers have much more competition that they can't limit their 'smartphones' in this way, because the next competitor will allow smartphones without data plans and all the customers flock to them.

 

Why do i own a kin? Cause it is my best alternative to not having a data plan, which means no 'smartphones'. Would i rather have one? yeah, probably. Will i justify the data plan for the better phone? probably not. And you look at the market out there, with all the feature phones available, the Kins are the best option for me. I don't know too much about other service provider's selection of phones, but i know the trend that Verizon's selection is rather limited in comparison, but Verizon's service is 2nd to none in my opinion, and you just gotta weigh the pro's and cons. Even with the generally worse feature phones with verizon though, i still think the Kin is better than every other non-data phone (smartphone) on any of  the services.

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

kinkurious, regarding your questions:

 

Syncing videos and photos to your computer is done entirely with Zune software, as you stated. If you own an ipod, think of it as very very similar to how you sync ipods with iTunes. Yes, you need a usb cable to connect the phone to the computer. The phone comes with one; it is the same cable you use to charge your phone (the phone also comes with a usb-to-wall outlet adapter). There is nothing special about this cable, it is just a standard microusb-to-usb cable that you can buy online for less than 5 bucks, if you happen to lose it, or want a 2nd one, or it breaks, etc.

 

I don't know what you mean by 'real' syncing. If you mean being able to connect it to the computer and transfer files as a 'mass storage device', similar to how you do it with a flash drive or so on, then no, the Kins were locked by microsoft to only transfer by zune software (similar to how apple locked their iPods to transfer with iTunes.).

 

Through Zune software, pictures and videos and music are directly copied from the phone to the computer, it is a very basic and user-friendly interface that is as simple as auto-import and drag-and-drop exporting to the phone.

 

You can email pictures from the phone to yourself, but those pictures will be sent in a reduced quality (which also is a reduced file size). And videos can't be sent via email, unless they are taken on the spot (in other words, you can't send videos you've already taken). Hence, the only 'real' way to sync the pictures/videos is by connecting the phone with a usb cable to the computer, and using Zune software to connect and transfer the files between the 2 devices.

 

There are some very odd decisions made by Microsoft regarding this phone. It is just a matter of deciding for yourself if you can live with them, or if you would rather just switch the Kin for another phone altogether. In my opinion, the pro's outweigh the cons. Good luck, i hope you get it figured out.

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
kinkurious
Newbie

I really appreciate the reply to my query.

 

Now I'm gunshy.  I first heard of this phone two days ago while on a routine call with Verizon (I'm 'new phone eligible' right now).  It sounded intriguing so I did some research and it kept sounding better and better as a fit for my needs.  I love the wireless capability and the (for me) major upgrade in pic/vid capability.  I will never purchase a smart phone with a data plan.

 

Yesterday I called Verizon back to proceed with my new Kin TwoM order.  In passing I asked about synching with my laptop - pretty much the same question I posed here.  The customer rep said there was no cable connection to do this.  I asked her if that meant the only way I could move pics and vids from my phone to my laptop was via wireless, email/txting them to myself, etc.  She said yes.  I said 'really?' and asked her if she was sure.  Yes she was sure - no cable connection for file transfer at all - but she would ask a tech guy if I would hold.  I held.  She came back with the same answer.  It made no sense to me.  So I asked here.  Here I've received a completely opposite answer.

 

Yep, my phone specs reading never provided the smoking gun I needed about this cabled synching/file transfer question.  And now faced with opposite answers to that question, I'm officially gunshy about pulling the trigger and purchasing the phone.

 

Not only that - I have no idea why I'm belaboring the firearm metaphor here.  Maybe because issues like this arise, seemingly so simple, and they make me want to shoot myself.  It just...shouldn't be...so difficult.

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

kinkurious, i am sorry for hte misleading information you were provided. You will learn quickly that Verizon Reps know almost nothing about the Kin phones, and often provide wrong information. And other times, they provide an answer that doesn't even answer the question that was asked, or they answer it as a broad statement that doesn't address the question specifically for the Kins. So, i would stick to what you hear from actual owners; it is a shame that Verizon as a company didn't even properly inform their representatives, which in turn have to help out customers, on a product that they sell. Sometimes it is the employee's poor work ethic that keeps them from knowing proper company info and product info; but regarding the Kins, it is a widespread problem and it is on Verizon as a whole in not informing/'training' their employees about them. They definitely have a vendetta against them.

 

Yes, there is a connection cable, yes it can connect to a computer, through Zune software. I will confirm this to you, 100%.

 

Don't you worry, i would want all the information i could get about a product before i bought it too :smileywink: Here's a link to another post i made a while back that will hopefully provide you with most the features of the phone, as well as pro's and cons and help you make your decision. Good luck!

http://community.vzw.com/t5/KIN/Kin-TwoM-Review-FAQ-Q-amp-A-troubleshooting-etc/td-p/347662

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
kinkurious
Newbie

The mother of all links.

Thanks - cover me - I'm going in tomorrow.

If all goes well, my Kin TwoM will be in the order chute by sundown.

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Re: Kin OneM/TwoM firmware issues: Verizon/Microsoft update wishlist
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

i got your back :smileywink:

 

Hopefully you will be satisfied :smileyhappy: If not, Verizon's return policy is 30 days, but there is a $35 restocking fee.

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