Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.

[fisharefriends]

I bought the kin twom 3 days ago. We qualified for the new every 2 free phone, contract renewal deal, so i've been looking around for a few weeks, doing my research on forums here and there. So, i already knew most of the quirks by the time i bought it. To those who have made detailed reviews, thank you. It helped me decide whether to buy this phone or not. So to contribute back and perhaps help others searching for answers to the Kin twom, I am making a review/FAQ/Q&A to hopefully help answer questions, add my own insight, as well as information that i've found from scouring this and other forums. I  also have a few questions of my own that i will ask. It will cover many questions that i have seen asked around, questions i  had in mind before i bought the phone, as well as questions and observations i now have.

***and i am hoping somewhere a verizon/microsoft rep is reading this and passes the message along..that this is one of the  best feature phones out there, all it needs a a few minor firmware/software fixes, and really is as close to the 'perfect'  feature phone that i and many others have been looking for***

This is a very long review, so I will post it in separate posts (apologies for the double.. 10x post).

Contents:
**1 Overview, pro's and cons
**2 Physical quality
**3 Wifi
**4 Phone: calls, messaging, etc
**5 Camera
**6 Zune
**7 Secondary apps: alarm, calculator, calendar
**8 Cases

**9 Sensors

**10 Questions

Background: my old phone was a razr v3m, back to the stone ages. It was a free phone when i bought it, and i was looking for a free phone upon upgrade too. This phone is $50, but for a one-time charge, that was within budget for me. I also used the new every 2 $100 towards purchase offer to get it free. That being said, this could be why i love this phone, because in nearly every way, it was a HUGE improvement. The type of things i was looking for in a phone: good call quality, qwerty keyboard,

good camera. I mainly use my phone..as a phone. Call, text, and because i don't carry a camera around with me,

having an 8 mp with me and HD video was a huge bonus. I don't mind touchscreens, as long as it has a separate keyboard with it (i can't stand just having a touch keyboard, because you can't really do anything unless you are looking at it, and even  then, you can miss keys). Looking online and finding this phone and that it had the great camera and full keyboard as a feature phone (no data) at a low cost, i was instantly drawn towards it.

[fisharefriends]

**1. First things first, this is a feature phone, not a smartphone. There are no apps. They call their programs 'apps', but they are really just every phone applications, like phone, calculator, messages, browser, etc. You can imagine why this phone failed its first time through as the kin twom, being a smartphone. It would make just about the worst smartphone out there. I also was not looking for the social networking type phone that this was originally marketed as. This phone is for people who DON'T want data plans, don't want to pay extra. It is currently being sold for $50 with a contract renewal/new contract, and $220 without a contract. The kin onem is a smaller version of the kin twom, if that is the form factor you are looking for, and that is currently listed as $20 w/ a 2 year contract, and $120 contract-free. They are very similar phones, from what i know, they have identical user interfaces and software.

Here are the user manuals for the two phones:
Kin Onem: http://cache.vzw.com/multimedia/mim/kin_two_m/kintwo_m.pdf
Kin Twom: http://cache.vzw.com/multimedia/mim/kin_one_m/kinone_m.pdf

I read this even before i bought the phone, but that could be because i am pretty picky when it comes to buying new products, especially knowing i want it to last at least 2 years. It would be a good idea to read this, although it is understandable if 150 pages isn't your definition of light reading (although this review is pretty long itself..)


Here is also a link to a very helpful review video of the Kin twom (thanks to ertrox342, fantastic job!), you can see many of the features here. *note: for blocking data other than airplane mode, read further down my review*
Part 1
Part 2
Response to comments

off the top of my head, i will list pro's and cons of the phone (some of which will be covered in further detail below). Many of the cons have been listed all over these and other forums and are more bugs than just cons of the phone, but i will list them anyways.

***Pros:***
 *mostly deals with the functionality of the phone. In my opinion, it far exceeds my expectations (being a feature phone, low budget and all)


-full qwerty keyboard: lots of spacing between keys, space on its own line, good for bigger hands, etc. (although i've heard people complaining theres too much room between keys..i don't see how you can have too much room, in my opinion thats probably because they're used to a squished, shrunk keyboard from a previous phone)

-8 MP camera, 720p HD video, with flash, some lighting settings, and auto-focus (well beyond what i expect from a phone). No, the flash does not work with the video, nor can you use it as a flashlight, which is a little bit of a downside, but not unbearable. it does do have a burst setting, where it takes 3 successive pictures, good for motion, or where you need to capture a photo at the right time (think..the classic jump in the air).

-great capacitive touchscreen: very responsive, registers well, very comparable to apple's iPhone, iTouch response. Has pinch to zoom, double tap, 2 finger tap, scroll features.

-Wifi. Yes, internet without a data plan. the browser is based off IE6 (from what i've read), it opens most pages, plays certain videos (youtube is the main one, microsoft must have used a custom plugin to get videos working), really what you expect from a phone.

-Zune player.  along with wifi, these are all extra bonuses i really didn't expect on a low-budget feature phone. although i am used to apple's itunes, it is a full player on-board the phone, it just takes getting used to the interface (unless you already own a zune)

-FM radio. again, a bonus. Is within the zune player, and now i can listen to radio, or mainly for me, sports games, etc. One downside though, will be mentioned later (cons, **6)

-3.5 mm headjack: standard size, i don't like it when phones decide to throw on a 2.5 mm headjack, although they both are 'standard', 3.5 is much more common, and saves you a trip down to radioshack and some $$ to buy an adapter, or new headphones.

-good call quality, speakerphone works well, etc

-Great battery life: that could be from what i am used to, my old phone needed daily charging, would often go low-battery in 3/4 a day, and it always had a low-battery beep that could not be silenced without silencing the entire device. It has lasted for 2 days now though, and that has been under pretty heavy use from me testing the new phone.


-threaded messages: again, the main thing i use a phone for is calling and texting. The messages are sorted by contact, you CAN send more than 160 characters per message (it auto-divides them into individual messages), even to non-verizon customers. That was one of hte most annoying things about my old phone, was once you get to 160 characters (to non-verizon customers..but who really keeps track of who is verizon and who isn't), you had to send and start writing a new message. And yes, you CAN send/recieve MMS simultaneously to having a functioning Wifi (the 'right' way to block data, explained later, **3)

-Alarm, calendar, calculator: one more thing i generally use my phone for..alarms and the calendar.the original kin didn't have a calendar/calculator, but microsoft did add these to the kin onem/twom models.

-auto-brightness: brilliant. it works wonders for the battery life, and it adjusts it to a great level when needed. When it is dark..not very bright. when you're outside, brighter screen so you can see it. however, the sensor on the phone can sometimes be covered up by your hand, which makes the screen darker for the setting you are in, which might be what is happening to those who say the auto-bright doesn't work well. I haven't found the exact sensor location yet, but i believe it is the little dot by the earpiece.

***Cons:***

  This list is much bigger..but that does not mean that the cons exceed the pro's. The pro's are actual functionalities of the phone, the con's are minor quirks here and there, they can be bothersome, but not crippling. For most part, they are listed from most annoying to least. I will list as many con's as i have seen mentioned around the forums, as well as some of my own, so you can judge the phone for yourself. They don't all necessarily bother me.

-volume buttons: they do not lock when you lock the phone. That is a sign of poor software engineering..but its bearable (lock..doesn't that mean lock everything, except unlock?). I ordered a case however, that hopefully will make the volume buttons a lot harder to accidentally push. I think what they had in mind was being able to change the volume while listening to music, but if it is locked, then it should be fully locked..they didn't get this one right. One thing about the phone, however, it seems to have sensors on it, whether infared, light, or just pressure/touch sensors, where the actual buttons don't register unless it senses it is 'being held'. Not quite sure how it works, but will discuss later (**9)

-alarms do not have vibrate only: even if your phone is set on vibrate, there is no vibrate. i do have work-arounds, though, that will be discussed later (cons, **7)

-messaging: only threaded messages. cannot just sort by time, with all contacts integrated. Also, no one has figured out a way to delete individual messages (or access the message info, for that matter), only the entire conversation. After using the phone for a while though, i realized i never would actually want to just sort by time anyways, it does sort by time in between all contacts, just not in between all messages. Also, people have said there is no way to forward messages, which i could not figure out either. However, i can't think of the last time i've forwarded a message anyways, so that doesn't bother me.

-no contact groups. So far, i have not figured out how to make groups. I would love to pin some groups to my favorite contacts, rather than just individual contacts, but the only thing i figured how to do was to 'link' contacts. That groups them together, but then you don't see the names of the contacts, only their numbers (and i don't memorize numbers..not since i didn't have a cell). this is also directly related to mass-texting: you can send mass texts, but have to select the contacts individually, or use these groups where you can't see their individual numbers anyways, and have to select them one at a time.

-Verizon's own backup-assist does not work with this phone. I'm guessing this is because the original kin had the online studio to sync everything, and they didn't bother making it compatible. When they made it a feature phone, they didn't bother making the backup work because it was backed up a separate way. Also, i've read that it does not support bluetooth OBEX profiles, which means you can't transfer contacts via bluetooth. It does have bluetooth in general, though. 

-it was said in one of the other posts that verizon has been updating its systems to be able to transfer contacts for the new kin models in its stores. I don't know whether that is fixing the backup assist compatibility issues, or providing a way to direct-connect the 2 devices and sync the contacts, but that is promising news to those who don't want to spend the time entering in all of your contacts.

-slippery backing: the material to make the backing of the phone is very slippery, what i would call poor quality plastic. sounds quite hollow too..like it could break with a drop. However, i'm getting a rubberized case for it that will hopefully fix this and not make it feel like i am going to drop the phone at any time (details later, **8). While the backing does feel cheap, the front half of the phone is very solid. it is a very thick, hard plastic, and doesn't seem like it would break upon impact. I did get a screen cover for it anyways though, because for its cost, i would rather put one on than be bothered by a permanent scratch. They are quite cheap online, although i did buy mine through verizon (they actually gave me a droid incredible cover because they didn't have kin accessories, but the screen sizes are about the same, so i can't complain).
  -along the same lines, because it is slippery, it is very hard to press the back button when holding it with 1 hand. i wish it had a back button on the touch screen along with the physical button.

-form factor: the phone is largest along the front of the phone, and slighty chamfers in as you go to the back. when it is in your palm, it feels firm and tight, but when using things like the camera, it really would've been a better design to just not have that chamfer. From feel, i believe it only feels funny because the back cover is so slippery. When the case i ordered comes in, hopefully it will have enough friction to stay put and feel good in the hands.

- a general lack of settings: there aren't many theme settings (only color), and no font sizes (for some reason, you can't zoom in on texts or anything else for that matter, other than the browser and pictures), so be weary if your eyesight isn't the best. Like mentioned with the alarm, there is no vibrate as a sound setting, only a global 'vibrate with sounds' setting. A work-around (that i haven't tested yet, but would most likely work) would be just to create a blank ringtone, and call it vibrate, and keep that global setting on, but you wonder why didn't have a vibrate only setting in the first place. When the phone is put on vibrate, alarms still sound.. but they don't vibrate. but when the global vibrate is on and the phone is on low, medium, or high volume, the vibrate does work for alarms. Kind of backwards. poor software debugging, if you ask me, but its bearable.  I wish you could custom move where the 'recent' and time dashboard were on the interface to the top corners, when holding it landscape, it is a lot more natural for me to press the top of hte screen, not the bottom.

-no touchscreen keyboard. it doesn't have a touch qwerty, and it also doesn't really have a keypad touch either. while the keypad does come up with calls, you can't use it for texts, or inputting anything other than just a basic phone call. in other words, you have to open the phone to type. it doesn't have t9/predicative texting, and no quick texts either.

-no back button on the touch screen..only the physical key. I wish microsoft would release an update with an optional setting to make a back and home button  appear in one of the corners much like the time dashboard and recent buttons are.

-this isn't a kin specific gripe, but phones with accelerometers/auto-rotate in general. I've never had a device that had auto-rotate, so it will just take some getting used to, to keep the screen from not rotating the other way when i don't want it to (if i want to use the phone lying down, i will have to turn it the other way, etc).

-qwerty keyboard: the enter key is right next to the backspace key (not to mention that return and backspace icons look very similar...). Aftera  while, you sort of remember which one is which, but having them further apart could've been a better design (there is about a half inch of free space on each side of the keyboard). Also, the keyboard does not have cursor arrow keys (up, down, left, right), and they don't come up on the touchscreen either. With all that free space, it would've been really nice if they added cursor keys, but the touch screen works well enough to just pick the spot you want to move the cursor to.

-fm radio: have to have headphones plugged into phone to use the radio. the headphones act as an antenna for the radio, which is really weird that they didn't bother putting in an internal antenna, because the phone itself already has an internal antenna..there may be a way to 'fool' the device into thinking that headphones were plugged in, but then you could use the radio with just the speaker (i don't think the quality would be too bad without the headphone antennas because the phone has so many conducting parts already..why didn't they just put in an internal FM reciever?).

-no alarm only setting in with volume

-no microSD slot. although i kind of expected this, much like the iphone or some other smartphones don't have slots, just built-in memory. But i doubt i'll run out of 8 GB, because i don't think i'll be using this as an mp3 player.

-the end call button on the touch screen is pretty small (and there is no physical key to end the call), but nothing i won't get used to.

-ringtones: from what i've read, you can't directly add custom mp3 ringtones to the phone. You have to send them via MMS to the phone. Also, there hasn't been a way to delete ringtones, as far as i know. The default ringtones aren't any good (they also have pretty cheesy names, a carry-over from the social-marketing of the original kin). You can transfer ringtones to the phone, from another phone and MMS, or by emailing your phone at ##yourphonenumber##@vzwpix.com. You also can't rename ringtones. In other words, though, if you do get ringtones (through MMS or texting it to yourself by email), make sure they are named the way you want them to be, and that you are ok with them being permanent, at least until a solution is found. I did read, that if you save the ringtone through zune, under the music folder, then you can delete it when you want.

-Cannot access kin as a mass storage device. Have to sync through zune. Although Zune isn't that bad (it is windows, and i own a PC running windows 7, making them very compatible and interlinked), i am used iTune's interface, so i just have to learn Zune's UI. You add and remove music, pics, video, etc between the phone and computer through Zune player. It is a free download software. You can also organize photo albums through zune on the computer, it just takes some getting used to if you aren't already a zune player user. I do not know if Zune player works on Mac's, but i read that they are going to be releasing a mac version soon.
    download link: http://zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm

-ugly interface: unlike most touchscreen phones where the icons are small and there is blank space, the kin twom has large 'flooded' icons that cover the entire home screen, and aren't editable. I don't think it is that ugly, but it certainly is a change from 99% of the verizon-default interfaces.

- Background wallpaper: cannot orient the picture direction. I don't care too much which direction the lock screensaver is, but it may be true that you can only have the picture set in 1 direction. It does not change with the accelerometer auto-rotate, but what you can do to change between landscape and vertical is take the picture in the opposite direction and then apply it. I read on one of hte other posts that they can only set it as a landscape background, but i have only been able to set it as a vertical background. That is how i normally hold my phone anyways though, so no problem.

-Some people have said that the camera button is hard to press, and when you do, it often shakes the phone, causing a blurry picture. i haven't really had problems with that. One thing you have to realize, is it is a 2-step push camera button. Hold half-way to focus, then snap the rest to take the picture. If you push it all the way, it will quickly auto-focus and then take a picture. Same goes for the touch-screen camera take button. The phone can try to slide open a little when taking pictures, but i've found a way to hold it so it is firmly in your hands. Just make sure you are holding the back of the phone on the bottom, not just the screen part.

-There are no voice commands (as far as i've noticed, if there are, someone correct me on this). I'm putting this under con's because it is something the phone doesn't have that most phones do, but for me personally, i almost see this as a pro. Now i won't accidentally be pushing buttons and hear 'please say a command'. Now, if you use a headset or something like that, that could be a downside.

[fisharefriends]

**2. Overall physical quality:

  While it is not the worst, it could be better. The hinge is slightly loose, but only slightly. When i purchased this, we also purchased the lg cosmos touch on another line, and that phone's physical quality is much better. The spring-action on the kin slider is strong enough to not notice the slight wobble. Like mentioned before, the back casing is a cheap plastic, and doesn't have that rubbery, silicone feel that i would like, but thats nothing that a case can't fix. The front screen plastic is thick, feels very durable. This is not one of those old brick phones that you could throw against the wall and it would look like new; it does feel strong enough to survive accidental drops here and there though, especially with a case.

The keys are pretty 'clicky', which i like. You know when you press a key and when you don't. Like said above, the capacitive touchscreen is very responsive, it is closer to being compared to apple's touch screens than other feature phones. Because it is capacitive, it does not work when contacted by non-electrical materials, like a stylus pen, or through a glove. Being a touchscreen, i don't imagine the old 'stick it in rice' trick will work if it becomes submerged in water, but i will leave that up to someone else to test. 

One more thing, not quite the physical quality, but the phone speed itself isn't bad. It is slower than smartphones, but is faster than what i'm used to on my old phone. You can browse through menus fine, but it is when you select 'apps', the phone either takes a second or 2 to load, or it by default pauses on that app's icon for a set amount of time.

[fisharefriends]

**3. WiFi:

  If you are like me, most of you are looking into/bought this phone because you were ecstatic about the ability to have wifi without a data plan. (This phone does support data plans like other 3g phones, but in my opinion, for those of you who want/can afford a data plan, do not get this phone. Get a smartphone. compared to android, apple, windows, blackberry, etc smarphones, this is the worst one of them all.)  I have seen many people say it doesn't have wifi, or you still have to pay (much of this is from misinformed verizon rep's, unfortunately) for the wifi. Actually, when i first went into the store to ask them about the kin, they asked me why i wanted it and i told them because it had the camera and wifi, then they told me it didn't have wifi. That is not true. It does have wifi, and works just like any other mobile device with wifi. Verizon has no way to charge you for wifi, seeing how it is NOT their network you are connecting to. You do have to remember that the wifi is just like any other wifi out there. Some networks (certain hotels, shops, etc) do charge for their wifi, but that is not an issue with the phone, it is the wifi itself, and you should know which network you are connecting to before you do so.

It does supports secured connections, and can be switched on and off (kinda obvious). when switched on, it will automatically search for and list visible networks. I do know have an answer as to why some people haven't been able to locate/connect to certain newtorks, but that is not a phone issue, it is related to that network and its settings. The only other possible thing i can see being a problem is if the actual device's wifi hardware has malfunctioned, but the phone itself does connect to open networks, wep, wpa, and wpa2 secured networks. there is also an option to connect to hidden networks. If the network is not automatically detected, you can search for others, with the name, security type, and password.

Data blocking/avoiding charges: Without a data plan, I did not want to incur any data charges. At $1.99 a MB, that is near theft right there..so yes, those of you wondering about avoiding that, those are very valid concerns. there are several methods to avoid charges. With this phone (as well as any other phone to my knowledge), if you lose wifi connection, or browse in an area with no wifi, it will fall back onto the 3G network, thus incurring charges.

Method 1: turn on airplane mode. This is simple, you can access the wireless controls through the quick dashboard, and its a single click to turn off all phone network connections. No phone, no messages, no internet connection. But you can connect to Wifi. This is the bulletproof way to surf the net, but like i said, you can't recieve messages or calls while standalone mode is turned on.

Method 2: block data through verizon. This is what i have done. You can do it online, through a phone representative, or directly at a verizon store. Many of the reviews saying they have blocked contacts say you can't use MMS when you block data. That, however, is not true. When talking to a rep on the phone, or in stores, tell them that you want to block all data, but keep multimedia messages unblocked. I did this in stores, and i much prefer talking to someone in person than over the phone (ironic, considering we're talking about phones), and they got it working.

More properly, block all data, but have national remain unblocked. THat is what multimedia messages go through, not through data. I have tested this, and i can send pictures to both verizon customers, and non-verizon customers. i have tested recieving from verizon, but did not bother testing recieving from non-verizon customers because i assumed if you can send them, you can recieve them. If someone else could verify this, that would be great. To make sure data was blocked, i kept wifi off, and tried accessing the browser and some sites, and they did not connect (with the exception of some of the pages that retained their cache, like google). As for billing, i am waiting to verify this. I can check my verizon account online, and where data (@$1.99/MB) used to be, that category is now gone. At the end of hte month, i will be able to verify that on the bill, but until then, i will be cautious about my wifi browsing.

When it comes to blocking data online through My Verizon, i do not quite know where the link is on the page(because i am not the primary line on the account, i don't have access to those controls). I do know you can block data online, but i don't know if you can block data, but keep MMS active, while doing it online. Some posts i read that you can, and others said you can't. If someone could verify and provide detail on this, it would be much appreciated.

[seebonbon]

First of all, thank you, fisharefriends, for this much-needed detailed review. Your review and the youtube review (the one that you linked to) were the two mainstay reviews I've gone back to repeatedly while deciding on the KinTWOm and even now, as a 5th-day owner of the phone. Thank you so much!

I've been playing around with our home wifi and the whole data thing (and incurred 1.67Mb while at it), and I wanted to add some info that might be helpful. So you won't make the same mistakes I did.

-------------

But before I go any further, let me just give you THE method to make sure data does not incur on your bill.

Basically, block all data but pix/flix online (since it's hard for me to go in-store - got a few young 'uns, and since navigating through the phone menus to get to a rep drives me bonkers, I definitely prefer going online ).

***The link to block services online is as follows (Verizon hides it pretty well):***

Sign in to My Verizon (under whoever's the Primary Account Holder in the family)

>>Above the phone image, select your "Line".

>>After the page loads, look under the Plan column and find the "Change Features" link. Click on it.

>>Scroll all the way to the bottom. Under the red arrow (Next button), there's an Additional Services section at the bottom. >>Select "Service Blocks".

>>Select/Block/Blue everything BUT "Block Picture and Video Messaging"

That's the short story! The long story of how I got there is below. Hope it helps you folks!

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1. When I first got my KinTWOm last week, I couldn't wait to play with the wifi feature. I went online and fixed it so that my service blocks included everything BUT "Block All Data" and "Block Picture and Video Messaging". I figured that I didn't want to block all data... and that if I hit the "airplane mode" before "wifi", I would be safe.

I was wrong.

Sure enough, after browsing a bit online with my new phone, AND using airplane mode, I called #DATA (they then send a free text of all my data usage), and I saw that I incurred some megabytes . I guess when I hit wifi BEFORE airplane mode gets hit, then I'm going on Verizon's 3G network (which is where I incurred data). So that method was frustrating. and tricky, to say the least!

****lesson learned: Blocking all BUT two - data AND pics/vid messaging - AND using airplane mode = not failproof! -> still a chance of racking up data.

2. So I went online AGAIN, and because I got paranoid, I blocked EVERYTHING. Then I was able to browse online using our home wifi (which, by the way, is a little faulty on the phone, but good enough; just know that I've had to reboot our wireless router 2x within the week just to get my Kin to see our wifi and connect decently).

I called #DATA to check (since if I checked online they take the data section off when you block all data), and saw that no MB was used. YAY. But still.... I wasn't able to send/receive pics. BOO. So that was annoying. Nevertheless, it was pretty significant that I didn't see any change in data usage.

****lesson learned: Blocking ALL - including data AND pics/vid messaging = failproof, BUT you can't send/receive pix/vids.

3. So I went online AGAIN - because I love sending pix and vids - and blocked everything BUT "Block Picture and Video Messaging". Sent pics to myself, browsed online - didn't even use airplane mode on - downloaded ringtones (used phonezoo by the way, and downloaded to pc, & emailed to my ###-####@vzwpix.com (which sends it to my Kin).

I called #DATA to check and YAY! no data incurred! Just a few texts (one pix counts as one text).

****lesson learned: Blocking all (including data) BUT one - pics/vid messaging = failproof, AND can send/receive pix/vids.

and you don't have to have airplane mode on to browse on your home wifi network.

So there you go! Hope all this helps.

[fisharefriends]

You are welcome. I hope many others will hear of this phone and increase its sales, leading to more demand for firmware updates.

Thank you for posting this detailed guide on  how to block data online. Although it is very strange..how airplane mode would not be an absolute, failproof way of blocking data (needless to say, i wouldn't use airplane mode in the first place, because i want to use my phone as a phone first and foremost), because i thought it turned off all connections to the phone (with wifi as the exception).

One quick note on the data check: when calling #DATA for the free text, make sure you look at the date of when the data used was last updated. For some reason, when i do call, the last update on my data usage was the day that i blocked data, from in-stores. Again, the real fail-proof way to know if data has been blocked, is check the bill, so i will do so at the end of the month. But, like i stated before, i cannot connect to any webpages when wifi is turned off..which gives me the assumption that data really is fully blocked.

Update on contacts: Today, i went into the Verizon store and the rep successfully transferred my contacts. I had to wait 40 min while he did so (a mix between him calling for info..checking this and that..and other 'behind the door' stuff), but to be honest, it would've taken me much longer to enter them all by hand, so it paid off. The only suggestion i can make, when going in-store and having contacts transferred, is be very specific, tell them all that you know, be patient, and hope for the best. Yes, i had to inform the reps that the phone did not have backup assist, as well as reading online that their systems had been updated in the last week, so i knew it was possible to transfer the contacts. But in the end, that helped, because then the rep knew that he could get it working, he would just have to contact the right person to make it work. Verizon has not yet  updated its employees about this phone..i had to inform one of them what the phone even was, and the other one that helped me, he knew of the Kin, but didn't know that it was relaunched, with new software.

Also, the case i bought for the phone came in the mail today (it is linked on the first page..the $4 case). It is a snap-on plastic case, with a rubber coating on it. Yes, it is a cheap case..hence the $1 price tag on it..but it serves what i want it to do. I bought this case initially because it was the only one that i could find with the case actually enclosing the volume buttons (the other ones don't have the piece between the volume and lock button), and because i wanted something to make the phone less slippery. It also makes pushing the camera button easier in my opinion. It hides it away, true, so if you have large fingers, it may be hard to reach, but for mid-sized/small fingers, the casing friction guides your finger into the button, reducing user-caused shake when taking pictures.

The exterior of the case is rubber-coated, i do not know its durability, but for $4 (save yourself money, and buy multiple purchases with 1 order, the shipping alone was $3), its worth a shot. Yes, it adds some bulk, but so does any other phone case. It snaps on nicely, and while it doesn't inhibit the phone's opening and closing, it does slightly get rubbed against when sliding, which makes it a little tighter (actually almost a bonus..). Worst case, I don't like it, or the rubber coating wears off within a month or so (i don't like plastic cases, i wish they had silicone cases for this phone, but rubber-coated will do), i waste $4, and buy a better quality case (body glove brand, etc). Again, the only downside to all other cases that i saw were that they didn't have the divider between the volume and lock keys, making them have less protection from bumps..

[tightwad]

You can't get combined shipping savings...it's $2.94 per item.  $4 for a case is probably fine, but I was hoping to combine shipping and couldn't find a way.

[fisharefriends]

Ah..you're right. Many of these items on Amazon come from different locations, so they would have to be shipped seperately. There are other sites out there, including getting the accessories directly from the provider (AccessoryOne is the main provider for that $4 case), and if the individual providers have multiple items that you want, then i believe the shipping will combine (if it comes from the same source, in other words).

[tightwad]

no, I checked that all items were coming from the same vendor.  This is a common practice as they are making money on the shipping generally.

I went to AccessoryOne directly to check, and they want ~$12 for 2 cases and 2 sets of 2 screen protectors, with shipping, insurance, and California tax (I don't live in CA).  I guess if I wanted one of each color case it would eventually be cheaper on a per item basis...but you can't really beat the $4 amazon or Ebay option for just a case.

[v793jt0]

Hey I  was wondering if you were able to use the wi fi having data block and not be charged w/o having to turn into airplane mode???

also by blocking data online.. you can choose wether or not to be able to use mms  just dont select video and picture messages

[fisharefriends]

v793, all of that info is stated somewhere in here, but to save you reading time, yes, you can block data successfully and use the wifi, without needing standalone/airplane mode on.

[rookieuser]

WOW  thank you so much for all the info.  I do have a question thou.  Is the Kin 2M capable of having text messages automatically deleted?

[fisharefriends]

No, text messages aren't automatically deleted, at least i do not think so. You have to delete them manually, and can only do so whole 'conversations' at a time (can't delete individual messages). However, there's virtually no limit to how many messages it can hold, so there isn't much reason to delete them. On my old phone, the inbox limit was 100, so having an auto-delete feature was great, but with the Kin phones, it will only run out of memory when the phone runs out of memory. And thats hard to do with texts...they are ~5 KB in size, and 1000KB ~ 1 MB, and 1000 MB ~ 1 GB, and your phone has around 6.5 GB of memory. Even if you do load it full of music and pictures, chances are you are going to have leftover space just because the average picture and music file is usually >5MB, which means you'll have around 5 MB left over, which can store...plenty of texts. If you are worried about running out of memory from texts, just make sure to keep a little space free on the phone (50 MB should be more than enough). I plan on always keeping more than a GB free, for photos and other uses like this. Once the phone is out of memory, i do not know if it will auto-delete the oldest message, or if it will just prompt you, but i don't imagine i will ever get there.

[kibbles35]

Can anyone tell me what my problem could be?  I've tried repeatedly to send myself ringtones via email as discussed previously - but nothing reaches my phone.    Plain text are fine, but any attempt to add a tone is removed - and when I use the ###@vzwpix.com - nothing happens at all - although their "My Current Usage" is diligently keeping track of every attempt .  When I try ####@vtext.com or ###vzw@vtext.com the text comes across but with the tones are marked "removed".  Pictures, however, appear to be OK.

Verizon has variously told me; the files were too large (only about 60 kb), or that I can't send mp3's to this phone (other people have), but to try mp4's (didn't work either).  We even tried sending it via regular email, the email comes in and the attachments say they've been downloaded but "Can't view file type".

I spent more than an hour on the phone with Verizon and they have no idea what the issue is.   I have a decent signal, wifi and email - text and photos come across, but not tones.  Any ideas?

[fisharefriends]

I'm not quite sure what the problem is. I highly doubt that the ringtones are too large in size. What format have you been attaching? I'm assuming .mp3, which does work. I'm not sure about .mp4, but .wav does work.

Have you blocked data on the device? If done 'improperly', that could inhibit the ability to send/recieve MMS. Sending MMS does use a data connection, but it is a separate connection from 3G, or what you normally would consider 'data', so it doesn't cost extra (on top of the message cost, if you don' t have unlimited). If you block data from the phone's programming menu, it will block all data, including MMS. If you did it online, i read that you have to keep the 'block all data' box unchecked, as well as the picture/video message box unchecked, but you can (should) block the rest. If you did it over the phone, or in-stores, perhaps the rep that helped you did it incorrectly and you will have to do it again to correct it. My data block was applied in-stores, and to my knowledge, it is 'correct'. I have no data charges, and multimedia messages do work (i have tested ringtone/sound files, as well as pictures; i'm just assuming videos work, because its all the same).

When you imply 'send through regular email', what exactly do you mean? All email is 'regular' in my mind... Unless, do you mean you are emailing it from the phone, to the phone's MMS? I don't think that will work. Use a computer's browser and attach the file from that. When you say pictures do come through, but tones don't, that confuses me..because they are all the same connection. I do know that animated texts don't work (they come separated, in a picture screencapture and a sound file), but sound files should/do.

[kibbles35]

I was attaching regular mp3s I downloaded from Phonezoo, generally from 45 up to 150 kbs.  Based on a suggestion from a rep, I converted some to mp4s, but that did not work either.   I'm sending from Outlook Express on a PC running XP as an attachment to an email to mynumber@vzwpix.com . 

 I read the internal blocking discussion, but have only turned off DATA ROAMING in the SETTINGS menu.

After early failures, I went online to check my settings, they appeared to be OK, but I then blocked almost everything except ALL DATA and VIDEO/PIC messaging.  I left these so I could manually download email on an as-needed basis, as well as ringtones and text.  Several Verizon reps verified and none found any problems with blocking settings.  

When I say "regular" email, I'm referring to downloading over Verizon's network ($$) as opposed to going to Yahoo-email via wifi and phone-browser (no $$).

The rep was also confused by pictures passing, but not mp3s.  We tried over-and-over, and at least 4 different methods, and couldn't figure it out.   Vid/pic msg with pictures showed up, but vid/pics with mp3 didn't.  Using standard text msg, the msg delivered, but attachements were removed.  Using regular email, the mp3s "downloaded" (?) but could not be viewed.

When I tried direct from Phonezoo-mobile, the phone could not download the files on three different files.

If it wasn't for the built-in Zune and no data plan, I would have bailed on this phone already.  So many great features, but so-so many more silly and aggrevating shortcomings.

[MojaveMoon_]

Maybe this might work.

In Windows XP after changing the mp3 extension to .mid, for whatever reason Windows will then think that the file is now a playable midi file.

How about changing the extension on one of your mp3 ringtones to .mid, sending it to your Kin and seeing if the Kin will accept it.

One other idea. Maybe this is an idea not worth trying. What about sending/forwarding the ringtone to your Kin from another cellphone ?

[kibbles35]

THAT DID IT.... sending them out of my Yahoo account instead of Outlook worked like a charm! 

What a waste of time up to now - thanks to everyone who offered ideas and suggestions.   This community has been fantastic

[fisharefriends]

Glad you found a solution. It is very weird..that outlook created a conflict. I use gmail, so that never had problems. There is one thing still confusing me though: you say that you send it with the 'email app' instead of 'wifi and browser'. Are you trying to send the ringtones from the phone, to the phone? To my knowledge, that doesn't work. Sending from a computer to the phone via email is how i've done it.

[kibbles35]

I use two email accounts, one which I can access via Wifi/browser, and the other which needs to be downloaded (over the Verizon network).  I only occassionally need to check email on the road, so I set emails to download manually and then only download 1-day of email at a time (to limit the data usage).  Last month I downloaded email 4 or 5 times and used about .6 mb ($1.99/mb is cheaper than $9.99/month). 

Here's a confounding quirk I've discovered - has anyone else noticed this?  

I often use my KIN as a music player with regular headphones, which means phone and alarm tones go through the headphones.  VIbrate is turned on so I notice calls when I don't have headphones on.  

OK, here's the weird part - when I take the KIN off I have been unplugging the headphones (so I can hear the phone ring), but I've discovered my KIN doesn't always notice that the headphones have been unplugged and won't ring outloud.  Yesterday I missed several (6) important calls with the phone sitting on the table next to me because although the headphones were unplugged and the ringer set to LOUD, the phone never made a sound.   (either that or the phone never rang at all and all these calls went straight to VM - does that happen sometimes??)

I'm testing to see if resetting the tone volume (soft, normal, loud) each time I unplug the headphones will get it ring outloud correctly - but that seems unnessecarily cumbersome - the phone should know automatically whether to ring out loud.  Is this normal?  Anyone else experience this?

[fisharefriends]

Is this info about email just in general, or is it a reply to my question regarding ringtones? Because i think you need to use a computer, not the phone, to send the ringtones.

With the headphones, i haven't experienced this problem, but i don't use headphones very often. My thoughts, are that the phone isn't recognizing that the headphones are unplugged (like you stated). After having the phone for 2 months, much to my pleasure, i haven't experienced the phone 'not ringing' even once, which my old phone did all the time. So i don't think it has bugs regarding not ringing when you get calls (and the automatically jumping to voicemail thing you mentioned, which happened with my old phone, but the Kin twom that i have has been flawless and htis has never happened).

If it is indeed the phone not recognizing correctly when headphones are unplugged or not (just my guess), my first question is, are you using the default headphones that come with the phone? And if not, are you using headphones that have a microphone on them? 'regular' headphones and headphones with a microphone have different heads: just visually, you can see that the 'regular' ones have 2 bands on the connection head, and the ones with microphones have 3 'bands'. I'd think that they are supposed to be compatible, but there could still be small differences in their head sizes, and between the design of the headphone connectors and the sensor the phone uses in its port, there could be a loose connection, or a bug in the software. Again, this is all speculation from what you have stated, i can't say i have experienced this, but perhaps this will help your testing and help you find a solution.