Unlocking a phone... Verizon refused

[michaeljtimko]

I just had an interesting discussion with Verizon customer service.

I've been considering a move a to T-Mobile, but I wanted to take my Note 3 (that I purchased at full retail) with me if I left.

Well, I have been out of contract since November and when I requested my phone to be unlocked, I reminded the agent.  He said he needed to put me on hold. 

After a pause, the agent came back and said Verizon does not unlock devices.  At this point I decided to quote the recent decision by the FCC.

Back in December (of 2013) the FCC Commissioner,  Tom Wheeler, threatened he major wireless carriers with an FCC ruling requiring phones to be unlocked.  To avoid a hard rule, Commissioner Wheeler got he major carriers (including Verizon) to agree to a voluntary policy.

The voluntary policy says that after a contract is completed, a customer can request their phone to be factory unlocked.  Following the request, a carrier would comply within two days.

I am confused to how Verizon refused my request when they already agreed to do it.

Here is a link to the story: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/12/fcc-takes-whack-phone-unlocking-ban-now-its-congresss-turn

[#2]

If you read the whole thing, verizon and others have a year to implement it. And there are still hoops to jump through and it may under certain circumstance be denied but verizon must tell you why in writing.

Additionally verizon uses CDMA technology so the phone will not work on T-Mobiles GSM network. Neither on AT&T which is GSM or on Sprint because they don't allow it on their different CDMA network.

Good Luck

[michaeljtimko]

Are we reading the same story?

Nowhere in the article does it state that the carriers have a year.  In fact,  if you follow the hyperlink to Commissioner Wheeler' letter to the CTIA, Mr. Wheeler States that he wants the policy in place during the Christmas 2013 season .

As far using my Note 3 elsewhere.  I spoke to T-Mobile this evening and they said my Verizon phone would work if Verizon would unlock it from there network.

[Tidbits]

The phone is already unlocked... ANY LTE device that is a world phone is automatically unlocked.

[#5]

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/12/u-s-carriers-and-fcc-come-to-agreement-over-consumer-unlocking-o...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57598544-94/confused-about-locked-vs-unlocked-phones-ask-maggie-exp...

I would not lie to you. See the first link where it mentions the year, and the hoop jumping and that the carriers can deny the unlocking.

Good Luck

[ttipgem]

Isn't the Note 3, as an LTE device, already unlocked out of the box?

[vzw_customer_support]

It definitely concerns us that we could lose a valued customer michaeljtimko! Why would you want to use that awesome device on anything other than the best network? The community is correct. The device is already unlocked. Please keep in mind the conflicting network technologies however. The device may not likely be compatible with GSM networks.

JonathanK_VZW
VZW Support
Follow Us on Twitter@VZWSupport

[#8]

Because each phone carrier has software placed on the phone to prevent it from working on another network, before it is shipped from the manufacturer.   This is an agreement with the carriers and while the law allows phones to be unlocked, the carrier is not required to do so.   And why should they? 

They have a captive audience.

We have the only option any consumer has - don't buy.   

Or switch carriers.   I just moved 4 lines to AT&T.   Paid full retail for 3 phones, bought one from Amazon, new for AT&T.  

Got a Note 3 for myself AND a Samsung tablet for $100.   My old Verizon bill was close to $300 with 3 GB of data.   My new bill with AT&T, just under $200 with 4 phones, one tablet and 10 GB of data.

Yes, I did have to buy new phones.    But I made my point to Verizon.   Your "deals" stink.

18 years with Verizon, and I'm gone.

[#9]

lizdance40 wrote:

Because each phone carrier has software placed on the phone to prevent it from working on another network, before it is shipped from the manufacturer.   This is an agreement with the carriers and while the law allows phones to be unlocked, the carrier is not required to do so.   And why should they? 

They have a captive audience.

We have the only option any consumer has - don't buy.   

Or switch carriers.   I just moved 4 lines to AT&T.   Paid full retail for 3 phones, bought one from Amazon, new for AT&T.  

Got a Note 3 for myself AND a Samsung tablet for $100.   My old Verizon bill was close to $300 with 3 GB of data.   My new bill with AT&T, just under $200 with 4 phones, one tablet and 10 GB of data.

Yes, I did have to buy new phones.    But I made my point to Verizon.   Your "deals" stink.

18 years with Verizon, and I'm gone.

(removed) The phones are already unlocked. It's not the software it's the hardware why they are not compatible. (removed)

Comment edited as required by the Terms of Service.

Message was edited by: Admin Moderator

[michaeljtimko]

I would leave because Verizon took away unlimited data.

I would leave because Verizon expects me to pay full Price for the phones I want to keep the unlimited I have.

I would leave because Verizon has over-extended the network in my area and I constantly drop down to a 3G signal.  We need AWS rolled out in my area, but but try Verizon customer service does not know if or when that will happen.

Finally, I would leave because I Verizon refuses to let existing unlimited data plan holders participate in Verizon Edge.  Something that other carriers don't seem to have a problem with.

T-Mobile customers have jump and unlimited data.

Existing ATT customers with grandfathered unlimited data can participate in next.

I would leave because Verizon treats it's oldest customers (unlimited data plans) as second class citizens.

[#11]

Frankly let t-moible take all the unlimited data customers. Let their network get saturated to the point of uselessness. every unlimited data customers that leaves Verizon frees up the network. There top 5% use 50% of the data. The more of them that leave the more data for the rest of US. If unlimited data was gone 100% caps could and WILL be higher. Caps are lower now because they have to compensate for the needs of unlimited data customers and that's not fair. I pay for my service too. I should have lesser service become some guy thinks it's his right to download 800 GB of data a month for $30.

[michaeljtimko]

Sirguy, how do you know 5% use 50% of the network resources.  Is it because Verizon told you that.  In all my google searches, I have never been able to quantify just what percent existing unlimited data plans play.  I would like to get some real numbers out of Verizon.  Just how many customers still have unlimited data.  What is the average (in GB) th each unlimited data plan holder uses.

Also, in searching the web, I have only found a few examples of extreme mobile data use.  I am sure there are more, but they just fall under the radar.  I never heard of any one individual using 800 GB.  Nobody should be using that much data on a cell phone.  I am guilty of enjoying a Netflix movie here are there during the month or streaming something from Hulu.  I think the most mobile data I used in one month was 16 GB and that was only because the WIFI toggle got turned off and I did catch it until I tried to make a large game from Play Store.

As to data caps increasing, I don't see that happening.  Verizon recently changed Share Everything to More Everything as a marketing ploy.  You may get a little more bang for your buck, but I guarantee Verizon is getting the most bang from your bucks.  I can say this because prior to Share Everything, when data was unlimited, if you looked at the quarterly SEC 10k documents for Verizon, they would make on average 1 Billion (with a B) dollars per quarter profit.  When they moved to Share / More Everything, that profit went to nearly 2 Billion dollars on the very next quarterly 10k statement. 

I follow the stock market, so I keep up on these things.

The thought I will leave you with is one.  When we act individually, we are just one person and Verizon can ignore us.  We need to act collectively.  If we work together, then we can force Verizon's hand.  If we threaten to leave en mass, then we threaten their bottom line and thus their profits.  Verizon can offer unlimited data, but they choose not to because it more lucrative to make you pay to play.  We can get Verizon to offer service fees similar to T-Mobile where the subsidized phone fee drops after you complete the two year contract, but they won't do it as long as we let them double dip.

[#13]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57564716-94/unlimited-verizon-data-customers-beware-make-sure-your-...

The above article explains the 5% who consume data the most. It is not just unlimited customers. Note Verizon's numbers.

In their figures people on 3G are throttled if they use over 2 GB a month. That to verizon is heavy use. However no throttling on 4G LTE and it seems no abuse of the network.

With 60+ percent on the tiered or shared data plans the figures can go up or down, the cell provider is saying 5% are excessive data users. So its not just unlimited users that use this data. 5% is a very small number out of 120+ million customers. 6 million users out of 120 million is nothing.

The scare is whatever the providers want you to believe. Don't fall for it.

Good Luck

[#14]

Elector wrote:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57564716-94/unlimited-verizon-data-customers-beware-make-sure-your-...

The above article explains the 5% who consume data the most. It is not just unlimited customers.

It HAS to be unlimited. Tiered data users aren't using more than what their tier says. If you're on a 2 GB plan then you're not using more than 2 GB. Simple math. The average of the top 5% is FAR above 2 GB.

[#15]

No read the article. If you have 60%+ or more on tiered and shared data it does not mean that the customers don't consume less data especially with all the complaints of people using more data each month. Think.

If each customer had a stop gap on the account and say at their plan limit of 2,4,6,8 or higher Gigabytes then overage will not occur. But that is not how it is working.

Your statement of the 5% of Unlimited users are using 50% of the data is totally absurd. Read the article. By the way produce the article to back up that crazy claim that the unlimited data users are using 50% of the data by normal or by abuse. Produce the facts. Not the dream.

Verizon does not put a limiter on data, they want you to go over. You go over and it is MONEY in the till for them.

Good Luck

[#16]

Elector wrote:

No read the article. If you have 60%+ or more on tiered and shared data it does not mean that the customers don't consume less data especially with all the complaints of people using more data each month. Think.

If each customer had a stop gap on the account and say at their plan limit of 2,4,6,8 or higher Gigabytes then overage will not occur. But that is not how it is working.

Your statement of the 5% of Unlimited users are using 50% of the data is totally absurd. Read the article. By the way produce the article to back up that crazy claim that the unlimited data users are using 50% of the data by normal or by abuse. Produce the facts. Not the dream.

Verizon does not put a limiter on data, they want you to go over. You go over and it is MONEY in the till for them.

Good Luck

There have been people here on unlimited data that in the past that have posted their bills showing usage the HUNDREDS of GB. One guy used 900 GB in a month. Are you saying that is reasonable? One gets to pay $30 to use 900 GB while 450 others pay the same $30 for 2 GB to sue $900 GB? Anyone that thinks 900 GB is reasonable over data connection can't be taken seriously. Heck even my cable isp has a cap that's not even anywhere near that.

[rodericickes]

Of course, why would you only use 2GB if you have unlimited?

[#18]

Elector wrote:

With 60+ percent on the tiered or shared data plans the figures can go up or down, the cell provider is saying 5% are excessive data users. So its not just unlimited users that use this data. 5% is a very small number out of 120+ million customers. 6 million users out of 120 million is nothing.

The scare is whatever the providers want you to believe. Don't fall for it.

Good Luck

5% using 50% of the data. Doesn't matter if it was ONE user.  A small % using the majority of data is an issue.

It's like this. Say you have 100 people and 100 cookies. 5 people take 50 cookies and the other 95 have to share the other 50 cookies. or .53 cookies each. That is an issue. Especially when those 5 are paying the same price for their cookies as the other 95%. Now you stop those 5% from being greedy then everyone gets 2 cookies each. Or the 95% get nearly 4 times the amount of cookies.

[#19]

sirguy wrote:

5% using 50% of the data. Doesn't matter if it was ONE user.  A small % using the majority of data is an issue.

It's like this. Say you have 100 people and 100 cookies. 5 people take 50 cookies and the other 95 have to share the other 50 cookies. or .53 cookies each. That is an issue. Especially when those 5 are paying the same price for their cookies as the other 95%. Now you stop those 5% from being greedy then everyone gets 2 cookies each. Or the 95% get nearly 4 times the amount of cookies.

Actually the difference is not everyone on unlimited uses more than what unlimited means. You see folks like myself use kilobytes or megabytes not gigabytes. Yet Unlimited means just that unlimited. But I don't use my phones or tablets for always on use like my broadband at Road Runner. Unlimited was not meant to be used as a replacement for that.

That is abuse. But is it if you use unlimited? Look at how people think.

You see Verizon by not cutting off the data limits at the set amount know that it generates large revenue streams.

Verizon is stating and the government has rebuked the line that going to shared or metered data is conserving data for others when it is a falsehood that unlimited is unsustainable at $30 but data at 2 GB at $30 is.

Now even if customers are being more careful it does not mean that the data be it on the unlimited or metered plans are not subject to congestion. Because it costs more per gigabyte does not mean those on metered plans don't use as much as they like. The difference is the price.

When unlimited was started Verizon did not have that many customers using the data, it was a gotcha to generate customer and revenue base. Yep Sprint & T-Mobile are now doing the same. It is a ploy to generate more customers.

I have posted links over and over that show, not my pulling the facts out of the air that it is sustainable. In your case if Verizon Wireless said starting Friday all plans are now eligible for Unlimited data at $50 how many folks will jump all over it?  You will in a heart beat. Oh and not shared but per line. In the world of technology when something is made better and better the prices come down. The claim of blame the unlimited data users is totally incorrect.

Find any paper, any online link by a reputable organization that shares that fact about unlimited users, you cannot and won't.

Its is a marketing tool for the foolish. You don't pay more for less. Unlimited is $30 versus 2GB at $30 you get less in this case and are paying the same. However just using what you say is on your plan 6 GB at (excuse me I don't know the price), but say $60 again you are paying more for less at Unlimited at $30 versus $60 for 6 GB.

If you have 100 people and 95% of them use 10 GB and the other 5% even though they can use as much as want only use 2-3 GB then now who are the data hogs? The only difference is in the pricing.

Good Luck

[Tidbits]

IT isn't sustainable. How is it that those experts that spewed now random spew the other way in less than a year.  They haven't shown what has changed, and what they show is theory.  What they don't say the technology hasn't caught up.  They compare networks that are 1/1000 the size of the US networks, and have people capacity 1/10000000 of the US...  That doesn't SCALE well. 

All these experts have NEVER worked in a large based network in their lives!  That's like trying to learn business from someone who graduated from college with no real world experience.

Why do you think Google is look at compressing data to lower internet usage?  They run one of the largest databases in the world...  It would be in their best interest if they pushed for unlimited internet from all ISPs.  Why don't they?  because even they themselves know it isn't sustainable.

[#21]

I think we went through this before. Didn't we?

The US Government and the MIT sites I posted and I know you looked at but could not counter were just a few of the agencies that said the "Chicken Little Theory" was perpetrated by the carriers.

It is sort of like the initial unlimited data scheme. It was sustainable to offer it, it was sustainable to grandfather it in.

Now with more users and the fact is more people stopped using calls and texts so as the US Government stated the Cellular companies had to find a new revenue stream. That new big money maker is DATA.

I have nothing against making money. However don't stand in a room a spout off what was sustainable at $30 is now not sustainable at $30 for less data.

If for example Verizon said like I posted above unlimited is now $50 per line. The customers would jump on it. Lets go the other way. Say Verizon said starting Monday every unlimited data user will be billed $50 instead of $30 again its the money. It has nothing to do with sustaining anything. Or with 30 days notice to those unlimited users.

There is much more behind the scenes that I and others will ever know.

Good Luck