FM radio disabled by Verizon on LG v20 - safety issue

[jraines]

I recently purchased the LG v20, the VS995 Verizon for a potential replacement of my current phone.

I tried to install an FM radio app called NextRadio; only to find that Verizon has the FM radio chipset disabled. I called Verizon customer support and they were of little assistance; basically they just couldn't find out what was going on.

I then contacted LG who told me that all of the phones are sent with an FM radio chipset, and that Verizon either disabled it via software or they might have actually physically disconnected it from the motherboard.

I then contacted Roy A. Chestnutt through your automated system on the Verizon website leadership page. I received a form letter saying someone would contact me within a business day. That would've been Monday. Today is Wednesday, and no one has contacted me about the issue.

Therefore I am trying on the forum!

Being able to listen to emergency broadcasts, or even local FM radio in the event of any type of emergency might mean life or death; and most of us don't carry around an additional FM radio in the event that cellular networks are down.

AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile are all allowing access to their FM chipsets. As far as I can tell, Verizon is the only one that has disabled them.

I get it, I get it... You have the best network and that costs a lot of money to maintain. You have the best network, in part, because of your policies that make you more money. I pay you more money every month because your network works and when something is broken, you fix it fast. That is worth money to me, and apparently to every other Verizon customer.

But, this is a safety issue...

The irony of this situation? The only Verizon phone I currently have that gives me access to the FM chipset is my Samsung Galaxy Note 7...

You remember the Samsung Galaxy Note 7, yes? That's the phone you keep insisting I return... You know, for my own safety...  <sigh>

Could we please get the FM chipsets turned on for both the galaxy note 5 and the Verizon LGV 20? If Verizon is that serious about the safety of their customers, surely they will see the wisdom in granting this simple SAFETY request.

[Ann154]

You should look into the FCC certification documents to see if LG paid for the certification of the FM chip for the Verizon Wireless model of the V20. My guess is that that LG didn't have it tested. Verizon Wireless has absolutely no say in what radios their models have unless LG is charging extra for the certification which would bring the cost of the phones higher than the equivalent T-Mobile Sprint or AT&T model. If that is the case, do you want to pay xx amount more than another carrier's model for a feature few people use? I wouldn't. So I don't blame Verizon Wireless for not including it. I would blame LG for not making it a standard feature and not charge extra for it.

[jraines]

LG told me (and of course the person I talked to there could be wrong...) that the phones were shipped fully functional, and Verizon has disabled it. 

The maker of an FM app told me that all it needs to work is software, definitely from Verizon, and they are the one carrier that is dragging their feet. 

Therefore, I'm surmising that the problem is *Verizon*...  that, and they haven't answered my inquiry.

If they restrict FM radio, they force you to use more data to get FM radio; ridiculous.  I get that they need to make money, but IMO they shouldn't make it this way.

[Ann154]

jraines wrote:

The maker of an FM app told me that all it needs to work is software, definitely from Verizon, and they are the one carrier that is dragging their feet.

Therefore, I'm surmising that the problem is *Verizon*... that, and they haven't answered my inquiry.

Verizon Wireless doesn't touch the code. LG is the company responsible for writing the software. LG is the company that has to send the device through the FCC certification testing process.

[jraines]

Let me be more specific - the holdup is Verizon...  Quote from NextRadio below:

"NextRadio requires an integration with the phone manufacturer to receive and send commands to the FM chip inside the phone. That integration requires a software library that many manufacturers have provided through Sprint, and coming in 2016, AT&T phones as well. Verizon has been dragging their feet."

[Tidbits]

IF it is enabled by default Verizon can't remove it.  See BlackBerry Bluetooth for example.  Now is a manufacturer charges to enable it, and the carrier doesn't buy in then the manufacturer is the one that removed the feature.

If you look at it every V20 has something missing and probably the reason why some have FM radio and some do not.  The T-Mobile version is missing the Calculator from LG and uses the stock Android one.  Sprint is missing the gallery as well as the AT&T version.  Missing the LG calendar as well.  There is so much software variation between models it screams of nickle and diming features by LG.  Even overseas you see variations.

[Tidbits]

I would like to add there far better alternatives to having a FM radio on cell phone.  As a person who have lived in Tornado Alley, and a person currently living in a state that has to watch for Hurricanes, and Tsunamis there are thousands of alternatives which last longer, are lightweight. 

[jraines]

Agreed...  and I have those things at home; but am unlikely to be carrying them with me all the time. 

What I DO carry all the time is my cell phone, like a lot of people.  And the cell phone I'm currently carrying with me is the ONLY one that has the FM radio enabled, ironically...  the one they want me to return on the recall... supposedly for my safety!

It's just frustrating...  it seems like the only reason for disabling it is to force us to use more data.  I understand they're a business, and the good network costs mega-bucks; but this is a little ridiculous! 

With my 4 lines, and paying them an average of $200/month over 10+ years, and buying phones, and everything else - Verizon has easily earned $30,000 from me.  I'm thinking that should maybe be worth not  trying to nickel & dime me to death over something like disabling FM radio that could actually be really helpful in an emergency...  Do you see my point?

[Tidbits]

Then it will last about a day what happens when the power is out longer than a week?  There are so many things that battery from the cellphone can do for you than be your radio.  There are items out there that'll last days and are no larger than your finger Your phone depending when you bought it can charge that device in about 10 minutes about 30 times over.  If the battery is removable it can help start a fire for example.  There's a lot more out there.

I am pointing out the fact LG is lying to you.  Back in 1999 CA courts Manufacturers and carriers talked about agreements that was set forth and found that carriers buy into a set of options set up by manufacturers.  If the carrier doesn't buy in then it is disabled or removed.  Also the Blackberry lawsuit happened because BT was a standard feature which was later removed by Verizon's request to BB and the courts deemed that was wrong and Verizon lost.

So keep this in mind.  Manufacturer options does not mean carriers disabled it.  It means they chose not to buy in.  Manufacturers are the ones that disabled it.  If it was standard and was put in then carriers can't remove it.  See Galaxy S7, S7 Edge, Note 7 which Samsung made it a standard feature and they do have it

[jraines]

Tidbits - I do thank you for sharing; want to address the other part of your post, too...

Tidbits - "Then it will last about a day what happens when the power is out longer than a week?"

Answer - I hope to have made it home, where I have generators, fuel, and a hand-crank radio, too.  I can also recharge small devices with my solar recharging panel.

Tidbits - "There are so many things that battery from the cellphone can do for you than be your radio."
Answer - agreed, but once I get home I'll probably be in a better position.  A temporary measure at best.

Tidbits - "I am pointing out the fact LG is lying to you.  Back in 1999 CA courts Manufacturers and carriers talked about agreements that was set forth and found that carriers buy into a set of options set up by manufacturers.  If the carrier doesn't buy in then it is disabled or removed."

Answer - Really?  maybe sometimes, but apparently not all the time...  If so, then explain why all it took for Galaxy s7 customers to get FM radio turned on was to gripe to Verizon?  Yes, it can be done, and apparently it's not that big of a deal to do it.

Tidbits - "Also the Blackberry lawsuit happened because BT was a standard feature which was later removed by Verizon's request to BB and the courts deemed that was wrong and Verizon lost."
Answer - Verizon lost...  so maybe they learned from their mistake that any "removed functionality" should be easily restored via software so they don't get sued again.

I do love the conversation!

[Tidbits]

jraines wrote:

Tidbits - I do thank you for sharing; want to address the other part of your post, too...

Tidbits - "Then it will last about a day what happens when the power is out longer than a week?"

Answer - I hope to have made it home, where I have generators, fuel, and a hand-crank radio, too. I can also recharge small devices with my solar recharging panel.

What happens say you house is destroyed during that scenario.  I spent a lot of times in Tornado Alley and have had one of my home destroyed,  I learned the hard way.

Tidbits - "There are so many things that battery from the cellphone can do for you than be your radio."
Answer - agreed, but once I get home I'll probably be in a better position. A temporary measure at best.

Tidbits - "I am pointing out the fact LG is lying to you. Back in 1999 CA courts Manufacturers and carriers talked about agreements that was set forth and found that carriers buy into a set of options set up by manufacturers. If the carrier doesn't buy in then it is disabled or removed."

Answer - Really? maybe sometimes, but apparently not all the time... If so, then explain why all it took for Galaxy s7 customers to get FM radio turned on was to gripe to Verizon? Yes, it can be done, and apparently it's not that big of a deal to do it.

S7 had it as a standard feature and Samsung wasn't ready to release it out of the box in the US using Qualcomm hardware.  All carriers was like this, but Samsung said it was coming and was a standard feature.  So people were just impatient waiting for it.  People were griping for no reason other than they wanted it now.

Tidbits - "Also the Blackberry lawsuit happened because BT was a standard feature which was later removed by Verizon's request to BB and the courts deemed that was wrong and Verizon lost."
Answer - Verizon lost... so maybe they learned from their mistake that any "removed functionality" should be easily restored via software so they don't get sued again.

Verizon lost because it was a standard feature that they removed.  They didn't lose because they did not pay for a feature that they didn't want to pay for to keep in line with other carriers because people showed they are unwilling to pay more for all the options.

I do love the conversation!

I await the day when carriers stop selling with phones, and people pick phones for themselves.  This what we'll ultimately get what we want as consumers.  Carriers will be hands off and manufacturers will be liable for everything for everything simplistic.  Like I told you earlier manufacturers don't want this.  They want all the money and hope all the blames fall on the carriers like we've been doing for years.  Keep in mind Europe and Asia don't have the latter mindset.

[jraines]

So are you saying that you don't think there's any way Verizon can get this turned on? You believe they are totally not in control of the situation... LG told me my phone as it was sent to Verizon was capable of it. But, the person I spoke with could be wrong. He seems so certain of what he was saying though...

I was thinking of returning this Verizon version and risking getting the unlocked version in the hopes of getting some things back... I actually thought I had until tomorrow for my 14 days, but turns out they count the first day  so  I bought this phone  🙂  going to have to learn to like it  until I decide to sell it .   honestly, from everything I read on Android Central getting an unlocked version and then taking it to Verizon was probably going to bring up all kinds of bugs and ultimately caused me more problems than the few things I'm missing..

What I couldn't get a straight answer from Verizon 4 is that if I did go ahead and get that unlocked version if the FM radio would work or not?

Because there seems to be some question as to whether the Verizon SIM card would somehow identify it and it still would not work... In the case of FM radio.

I don't mind carriers selling phones because it's convenient. But I do believe that they should have absolutely no say-so over what works and what does not work.

I just don't think you can have the mindset of letting Verizon get off so Scott free, because if it really is so controlled by the manufacturers, why is it that Verizon is always the carrier that has the most features removed?

That goes back to they must have a larger part in this then it would at first seem, wouldn't it?

Anyway, I do enjoy your Insight and appreciate your time. Someone from Verizon is supposed to be getting back to me. It will be interesting to see what their position is on all of this.

[Tidbits]

jraines wrote:

So are you saying that you don't think there's any way Verizon can get this turned on? You believe they are totally not in control of the situation... LG told me my phone as it was sent to Verizon was capable of it. But, the person I spoke with could be wrong. He seems so certain of what he was saying though...

Not unless Verizon is willing to pay LG and take a loss on the product.  LG would love to get more money even at the expense of carriers.

I was thinking of returning this Verizon version and risking getting the unlocked version in the hopes of getting some things back... I actually thought I had until tomorrow for my 14 days, but turns out they count the first day so I bought this phone 🙂 going to have to learn to like it until I decide to sell it . honestly, from everything I read on Android Central getting an unlocked version and then taking it to Verizon was probably going to bring up all kinds of bugs and ultimately caused me more problems than the few things I'm missing..

Would be best.  That's what I do when I can.  I don't like being tied to carrier branded phones.  Verizon with Block C and the manufacturer does things themselves was a godsend to me.

What I couldn't get a straight answer from Verizon 4 is that if I did go ahead and get that unlocked version if the FM radio would work or not?

It would work simply because it's not tied to contractual agreements.  LG makes what they want for their unlocked phones.

Because there seems to be some question as to whether the Verizon SIM card would somehow identify it and it still would not work... In the case of FM radio.

Doesn't work that way unless the manufacturer makes it that way, but there is nothing a carrier can do to force this to happen.

I don't mind carriers selling phones because it's convenient. But I do believe that they should have absolutely no say-so over what works and what does not work.

They don't have  a say.  The manufacturer has the say in things.  If the manufacturer made everything a standard feature this is what you get then Verizon under law can't remove anything.  Since they say things like $10 for FM, $25 for these spectrum to support, $5 for LG Calendar, $5 for LG Calculator, and such the courts deems that a manufacturer option.  This is why in Europe they have it set up manufacturers can't do this.  You see they have all the options AND they pay an average of $50-100 more than we do before VAT.

I just don't think you can have the mindset of letting Verizon get off so Scott free, because if it really is so controlled by the manufacturers, why is it that Verizon is always the carrier that has the most features removed?

All Verizon devices must support EVERY carrier spectrum.  This cost money to do so and manufacturers charge for this.  When Verizon left everything in people screamed and ranted on these very forums about how they are not going to buy the phone because they could get it on T-Mobile and Sprint for $75 cheaper.

That goes back to they must have a larger part in this then it would at first seem, wouldn't it?

See previous response.  Carrier options = disparity in pricing which in turn to make things equal they have to drop more features.

Anyway, I do enjoy your Insight and appreciate your time. Someone from Verizon is supposed to be getting back to me. It will be interesting to see what their position is on all of this.

No problem.  Discussions are always good especially when understanding and reason stands in front of the name calling and such.  Too often people hear things they don't want to hear and assume so and so works for XYZ company

Eventually we will move the way of Europe.  Be prepared I thnk that's when real competition begins.

[SupraLB]

My thoughts, Verizon is just doing this to force the customers to use more data.   Force them to stream more radio, versus free over the air.    Its the same thing with the missing "In Apps Shortcut", thats in the other thread.   Verizon set it up where you are forced to do a google web search (eating up data), before you can swipe to the right to see the In Apps menu.   AT&T, Tmobile, Sprint get the Google In Apps shortcut avoiding all that.   Something that Google bragged about giving to the V20s.  But Verizon took it away.      

Very sneaky way to get customers to pay more data.  

[Tidbits]

Of course you'd say that with no real evidence to prove it. What i am saying came from the courts and the manufacturers testimony which speaks more than speculations. Not knocking on you, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Just another short of information. Back during thd Behold II and the Galaxy S Samsung hinted more than handful of times about this stuff too.  Europe used to think like we do, but after a few of these cases and what Samsung said they did this drastic shift. Motorola, and HTC got hit hard in the European market and see how they changed compared to what they were 6 years ago.

[pherson]

What I don't understand is, on the one hand in the event there is a power outage you can't change your phone anyway; but you also say you are an itunes girl. You can purchase an iPod and have fm radio, those are very small, or purchase a cheap yet bigger radio that as long as you have batteries it should work. Why the back and forth. And if you have a car that has gas in it and a working battery you can get news updates there!

[mama23dogs]

Exactly.  All smartphones provide emergency alerts (tornado etc).  So in such an emergency, you are either going to bunker under ground, with probably zero cell reception, but good FM signal on a hand crank radio.  You're in your car where you have radio, or your home, possibly without power. 

If it were a real safety feature it would probably be required on all phones, like E911 location services.

[jraines]

Ummm...  if I'm trying to get home and can't get back to my vehicle, not having a cell phone signal is why I want FM radio. 

It actually works surprisingly well on my Sammy Note 7, but I have to return that phone because of the recall. 

And IMO it should be required on all phones as a real safety feature.

On a separate issue, I will tell you that there are a lot of people that would just want to listen to a local FM radio station if they could.  (None in my area that I like, unfortunately.)  I don't travel much, but if I did, and there were FM stations I liked, I'd probably listen.

The difference is that because FM radio is important to me for other reasons, I would not tell tell folks that just wanted to listen to FM that their opinions are not important...

[jraines]

You meant "charge" not "change", right?  Good question...  Answer - I'll have FM radio until I (hopefully!) get home.  (Then, I can recharge small items on a solar charger.)

I bought into iTunes years ago, and once even had an iPod.  Like a million years ago.  But I didn't want to carry around two devices when my phone could do the job.  Android app doubletwist takes my iTunes library and puts it on my phone.  I still have iTunes on my PC.  When I walk into the room , the devices sync - done.  Music on phone.

So, your logic is that I should carry 3 devices when 1 would do?  Ridiculous. 

May I remind all of you ferociously defending Verizon that the CHEAPER carriers are selling the v20 at a HIGHER price that people are apparently more than willing to pay?  If 95% of people "wouldn't pay" for having all the features on their phone, aren't the cheaper carriers worried that they'll lose customers to Verizon???  Answer - NOPE.

Verizon - the most expensive carrier...  gutting/gimping/not-buying-in/not-supporting the most features...

Other than working for Verizon, I can't imagine why those of you so apparently cost conscious as to defend such a consumer-unfriendly position stay with them?  (Unless you're like me, and are stuck there...)

Pherson; I do appreciate your time.  Just don't agree...  🙂  My Daddy, who was always right about everything, I might add, told me that ALL progress was spurred by the demands of "unreasonable" people.

[Tidbits]

Jraines

Verizon isn't removing anything if it isn't already on the phone. If Verizon did in fact remove those features get LG to release documentation they told LG to remove those features. Then the FCC and Courts sould have a bone to pick with Verizon.

As i said before the Samsung phones had it a standard feature and why it has it. The V20 is a buy in to get it. LG set the rules and all the carriers followed those rules.

Similar to a car dealership. You can have a base model and one with a couple of options. Some dealerships do not have to buy into an option and carry them. The only difference is a car you can buy the parts and the software and have it put in, but a phone isn't that simple and LG sould not want to hire that type of workforce.

[jraines]

And LG told me that they shipped with the FM chipset...  I can't prove he was right or wrong - yet. 

But my point was it *seems* to me that if how they (LG) didn't include FM radio as a standard feature was to actually include it on the phone, but then turn around and disconnect it from the motherboard, then...  wow...  don't you think that's a bit of a stretch?

Maybe...  they should have a bone to pick with Verizon...  the only carrier "where it won't work".