Google Also Responsible For No FROYO?
Dad-Bill
Contributor - Level 1

I recently sent an email to vzw to express my frustration for not getting FROYO released and to see if I could get a deal on another smart phone. I received an email from vzw and this is part of what they said:


"Verizon Wireless does not dictate when a software release will be approved and confirmed. This is an update that will be provided by both Google's Android Developers and Samsung. Once it becomes ready, the software will be sent out to your device automatically and you will be advised to perform the update."

 

Nowhere in the email from vzw did they state that they too have a hand in the FROYO update. Correct me if I am wrong. Google developed the android operating system. Then samsung and verizon get it and their developers add what they need to the android operating system. When the final software is reliable it is then released to the public. So when there is an update only samsung and verizon complete the update but Google has nothing to do with updates only the original android operating system. Is this correct or have I been misled?

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wardcst24
Contributor - Level 2

It is not Google It is not Samsung

It is all Verizon Call them Don't bother Samsung

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papa_leo
Contributor - Level 1

Verizon doesn't want to deal with Fascinate. They are seeing this phone as a lost cause and trying to have people to switch to other phones.

 

My story... after I complained enough, execute office was offering me a DX or DInc as replacement for Fascinate. I declined both of them... why would I want DX that reboots all the time (I personally owned that phone as soon as it came out and it was horrible) or DInc which has smaller screen size and battery so tiny that one should have power cable plugged to the phone 80% of the time or have a huge battery hump on the back. 

 

If you want to switch to one of those phones, keep on calling Verizon and don't stop. CALL, CALL, and CALL. Ask to speak to supervisors, ask to be transferred to cancellation departments. Don't be afraid of canceling your contract if you can. The ETF are not due until 6 month after cancellation of the contract and you have that time to reconnect back to skip the ETF (3 months of you want to maintain the same phone number). That information was provided to me by Verizon cancellation department manager.

 

My point here is that I truly believe that Verizon had enforce some sort of hush-hush on all of its employees about releasing any more info about future Froyo updated, treading termination of employment anyone who is opening his/her mouth. We need to have Verizon to acknowledge it past mistake, allow customers with Fascinate (who wants) to cancel their contracts and returns phones and move on. We, consumers, will forgive the past mistakes (for the most parts) but approach that Verizon is taking by asking Fascinate consumers to buy another phone and the full price and sign another 2 year agreement is similar to support of abusive spouse like in the way "or...he hits me not too often and not too hard, he does that because he love me".

 

 

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crimedoggies
Specialist - Level 1

Are you serious??  Your contract explicitly states that neither Verizon, nor the manufacturer, nor the OS developer is required to provide you with software upgrades and that software upgrades are done as a courtesy to the customer.  The Fascinate was sold with 2.1 and functions with 2.1.  If you want 2.2, then there are ways for you to get it.  It's that simple.  All the crazy talk of lawsuits and FTC, FCC, BBB complaints is laughable.  Get a life.

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papa_leo
Contributor - Level 1

cremedoggies wrote:

Are you serious??  Your contract explicitly states that neither Verizon, nor the manufacturer, nor the OS developer is required to provide you with software upgrades and that software upgrades are done as a courtesy to the customer.  The Fascinate was sold with 2.1 and functions with 2.1.  If you want 2.2, then there are ways for you to get it.  It's that simple.  All the crazy talk of lawsuits and FTC, FCC, BBB complaints is laughable.  Get a life.

---------------

Ok, let me rephrase you just to make sure that I follow your thoughts.

 

Samsung took a perfectly good open source Android OS, tweaked and twisted to fit whatever it liked it. Then came alone Verizon and added tons of its bloatware which original OS never had in mind to support and not just that it also took away the option of removing that bloatware without doing some "illegal" things to the phone.

 

And...also sold an original Google search functions to a higher bidder, Microsoft. On the top of all that had all of its sales channel to falsely advertise this phone with "soon to be available Froyo" and now all of the sudden upgrade is just a courtesy. 

 

Are you listening to yourself? How could anyone be so ignorant of the facts that we (Fascinate users got screwed royally) and what we are demanding is a fair open statement from the company about upgrade.

 

If you forgot the history of the US, let me remind you that this country was built and raised on upraising and revolutions. If not for Washington, we would still be under an England Crown. Where in original US Constitution it said that African American can be free? If not for Lincoln, there still would be slaves and if not Dr. Kind, African American would still be considered as the second class citizens? Where in original constitution did it say that no one can be oppressed due to color of the skin, race, or sex? NOWHERE!

 

It is because of people like us who are going against all odds and fighting a big guys to demand a freedom, respect, and a fair treatment. 

 

If you don't like what we are doing don't join us and be a sheep who will be slaughter at any day when your master will feel like it. 

 

I AM NOT A SHEEP, I HAVE MY OWN MIND.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF BEING TOLD WHAT AND HOW TO THINK AND WHILE WE ARE STILL ALLOWED THE REMNANTS OF FREE SPEECH, I WILL SPEAK OUT.

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crimedoggies
Specialist - Level 1

papa_leo wrote:

cremedoggies wrote:

Are you serious??  Your contract explicitly states that neither Verizon, nor the manufacturer, nor the OS developer is required to provide you with software upgrades and that software upgrades are done as a courtesy to the customer.  The Fascinate was sold with 2.1 and functions with 2.1.  If you want 2.2, then there are ways for you to get it.  It's that simple.  All the crazy talk of lawsuits and FTC, FCC, BBB complaints is laughable.  Get a life.

---------------

Ok, let me rephrase you just to make sure that I follow your thoughts.

 

Samsung took a perfectly good open source Android OS, tweaked and twisted to fit whatever it liked it. Then came alone Verizon and added tons of its bloatware which original OS never had in mind to support and not just that it also took away the option of removing that bloatware without doing some "illegal" things to the phone.

 

And...also sold an original Google search functions to a higher bidder, Microsoft. On the top of all that had all of its sales channel to falsely advertise this phone with "soon to be available Froyo" and now all of the sudden upgrade is just a courtesy. 

 

Are you listening to yourself? How could anyone be so ignorant of the facts that we (Fascinate users got screwed royally) and what we are demanding is a fair open statement from the company about upgrade.

 

If you forgot the history of the US, let me remind you that this country was built and raised on upraising and revolutions. If not for Washington, we would still be under an England Crown. Where in original US Constitution it said that African American can be free? If not for Lincoln, there still would be slaves and if not Dr. Kind, African American would still be considered as the second class citizens? Where in original constitution did it say that no one can be oppressed due to color of the skin, race, or sex? NOWHERE!

 

It is because of people like us who are going against all odds and fighting a big guys to demand a freedom, respect, and a fair treatment. 

 

If you don't like what we are doing don't join us and be a sheep who will be slaughter at any day when your master will feel like it. 

 

I AM NOT A SHEEP, I HAVE MY OWN MIND.
I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF BEING TOLD WHAT AND HOW TO THINK AND WHILE WE ARE STILL ALLOWED THE REMNANTS OF FREE SPEECH, I WILL SPEAK OUT.


Please feel free to speak out all you like (although it appears quite obvious you could use a little coaching in proper grammar and vocabulary).  Manufacturers modify operating systems all the time to meet their software.  As far as Verizon's bloatware is concerned, it is an advertising avenue that they utilize, if you don't like it then don't buy the phone.  As far as the founding of our country, it was based on the core principle of no taxation without representation.  And exactly where does the race, religion, or creed arguement come into an OS update conversation? 

 

I am far from a sheep.  What I am is a well informed customer that does his research prior to making a purchase.  While you can gripe all you want about not having the update, LEGALLY Verizon isn't obligated to give you one.  That is fact whether you like it or not.  Have a good day.

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papa_leo
Contributor - Level 1

@crimedoggies.

Nothing personal...but as soon as you will be able to speak, write, and comprehend in 5 major languages in addition to your native, please get back at me and I will gladly accept your offer of "little coaching in proper grammar and vocabulary".

 

I am very well educated consumer and well aware of sales tactics. But lying salesmen never compensated to a good long relationship if company really carry for that.

 

In case of Verizon fiasco with Fascinate upgrade, it is clear that Verizon doesn't have balls to come out publicly and announce that NO FURTHER UPGRADE TO FASCINATE. The corporate bosses knows exactly what will happen to Fascinate sale at that exact moment...Fascinate will be doomed just like MS Kin once was already.

 

I know that legally Verizon doesn't have to upgrade Fascinate and I confirmed that with a law firm professional. That's why I am taking another route of speaking up publicly.

 

You may have a good day too and God bless those people who constantly challenges us as without evil, good would not exist..

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PJNC284
Master - Level 2

It'd be much more effective to get the blog sites like Engadget, BGR, etc on board than organizing a little protest on facebook/twitter.  I wish 2.2 would hurry up and come out because those who have issues with the phone now are still going to have it after.  The Froyo update isn't going to perform any miracles.

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Dad-Bill
Contributor - Level 1

crimedoggies, I think you misunderstood my intentions for my posting. This isn't about not getting froyo, this is about is Google also responsible for not releasing froyo or are they not involved with releasing the froyo update at all?

 

There are tons of posts about not getting froyo. The email I got from vzw, verizon acknowledges no involvement what so ever with not releasing froyo. Instead they are putting the blame on Google and samsung.

 

I know a lot of members are fed up with all the postings about not getting froyo. The main topic with my post , is Google also responsible for not releasing froyo, it is not about not getting the froyo update!

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SFObrien
Contributor - Level 3

 

I know a lot of members are fed up with all the postings about not getting froyo. The main topic with my post , is Google also responsible for not releasing froyo, it is not about not getting the froyo update!


Your post is still related to the several other ones about not getting Froyo. DIFFERENT DAY SAME STUFF .

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Dad-Bill
Contributor - Level 1

crimedoggies thanks for the update!



SFObrian I disagree with you. Let me ask my question in a different way. I don't know what the original version of Google's Android operating system was. Google developed the initial Android operating system. After it was first developed, was Google involved in developing any updates after the original one or was samsung and verizon the ones that developed the updates? I didn't refer to the "F" word until now.

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Jax_Omen
Specialist - Level 3
I dunno, crimey, Samsung hasn't had much trouble adapting Froyo to run on their UI in the rest of the world... heck even Sprint's Galaxy S runs Froyo now, and the Epic *should* be the hardest to adapt, since it not only has a unique radio (WiMax) but also a physical keyboard, which no other galaxy S model has.
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crimedoggies
Specialist - Level 1

Jax_Omen wrote:
I dunno, crimey, Samsung hasn't had much trouble adapting Froyo to run on their UI in the rest of the world... heck even Sprint's Galaxy S runs Froyo now, and the Epic *should* be the hardest to adapt, since it not only has a unique radio (WiMax) but also a physical keyboard, which no other galaxy S model has.

Froyo runs just fine on the Fascinate for those customers who have gotten it themselves.  My cousin who works for Verizon has told me the hold up is due to Samsung's UI.  Seems to me if people can get the update themselves and run it without Samsung's UI, process of elimination would dictate that is where the issue rests.  As I have stated previously, Verizon's bloatware is running just fine on other Froyo devices, that would indicate the issue is elsewhere.

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SFObrien
Contributor - Level 3

Dad-Bill wrote:


 I didn't refer to the "F" word until now.


And the title of your thread refers to what not being put out by Google?   FROYO !  Like I said it is still another crying post about not getting Froyo no matter how you spin it.

 

And it's spelled Obrien :smileyhappy:

 

 

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Dad-Bill
Contributor - Level 1

SFObrien you still don't get it but that is OK. I did not mispell your name on purpose, my apologies if I upset you.

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SFObrien
Contributor - Level 3

Dad-Bill,

 

Oh I get it.  Nothing wrong with a protest if you have something worthwhile to  protest.  This Froyo wining and crying thing is ridiculous, I agree the big guys have failed in getting it out in a timely manner and it "appears" the Fascinate has been neglected. And now Android Central is reporting Gingerbread 2.3.x has been leaked out for the Galaxy S overseas version. But if you want it so bad go out learn how to tweak your phone and get it !

 

And I was kidding about the name spelled wrong, wasn't upset.

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Dad-Bill
Contributor - Level 1

SFObrien you don't actually think that you or anyone else determines whether or not I have something worthwhile to protest do you? I'm sure that you and everyone else does not have to get someone's opinion or permission before you post an article. If you find that a posting will make your blood boil then may I suggest that you don't read it! Although I've noticed that there are some that really seem to enjoy being confrontational!


Before I posted this article I really did not want this to turn into an argument between those who are for and against froyo.  I actually wanted to find out if Google has any input into new updates. This specifically had nothing to do with froyo itself but has to do with all of the updates from samsung and verizon.


I am still looking for honest unprejudiced input from those reading this post. I genuinely want to know what, if any, input is from Google pertaining to updates.

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SFObrien
Contributor - Level 3

Dad-Bill wrote:

SFObrien you don't actually think that you or anyone else determines whether or not I have something worthwhile to protest do you? I'm sure that you and everyone else does not have to get someone's opinion or permission before you post an article. If you find that a posting will make your blood boil then may I suggest that you don't read it! Although I've noticed that there are some that really seem to enjoy being confrontational!


Before I posted this article I really did not want this to turn into an argument between those who are for and against froyo.  I actually wanted to find out if Google has any input into new updates. This specifically had nothing to do with froyo itself but has to do with all of the updates from samsung and verizon.


I am still looking for honest unprejudiced input from those reading this post. I genuinely want to know what, if any, input is from Google pertaining to updates.


I guess worthwhile was the wrong word.  It doesn't really matter anyway, VZW,Google,or Samsung could care less what us forum ninjas think or post.  They have their money and keep making more!

 

Now back to your topic.  I don't think you will get an answer to your question because nobody really knows. 

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Dad-Bill
Contributor - Level 1

Thanks for your input!

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Froyoed
Newbie

Sorry to those who will complain about me 'resurrecting' an older post, and sorry to those who object to other people having an opinion of their own (why do I see a Canadian flag in my mind when I type that?) and sorry to those who think Fascinate owners should just bend over, I don't agree with any of you...........so, deal with it!

 

Now, onto the Dad-Bill's question as to what input or influence, if any, Google may have regarding the release of Froyo for the Fascinate.

 

To start, I will go back to 1983 cos thats when my 'experience' in IT begins, and it's this 'experience' that shapes my opinon. When Microsoft first started pushing out their DOS (not known as MSDOS originally) it was similar to Google pushing out Android, they wrote the 'source' and others tweaked it to fit their hardware. Microsoft did not deal in hardware, they left that to others and so we had other manufacturers - IBM notably as the original MS 'customer' - who built the hardware tweaked the OS and introduced us to the 'Personal Computer'.

It wasn't long before other electronics manufacturers realised the potential market for PC's and dived headlong into the business of making PC 'clones' around the time that MS released DOS 2.0 now begining to be known as MSDOS, 2.1 and 2.2 followed soon after. By now there was a fairly large number of manufacturers selling PC's - Sanyo, Wyse, Hyundai, Silver Reed, to name a few (forgive my memory if I miss your particular favourite) they all ran 'MSDOS' but, and it's a big but, they all ran their own 'tweaked' version of MSDOS. Microsoft didn't write a different version of MSDOS for every different model PC that was being sold, that was left to the manufacturer so we had MSDOS for SANYO, MSDOS for Wyse, MSDOS for Hyundai, etc etc. Microsoft licensed the manufacturer to 'tweak' the OS as necessary to fit their hardware. Yes Microsoft had input, but basically, if you built hardware that would run a version of MSDOS and you had the license from Microsoft, then you did what was necessary to make it work.

We all know what happened over the next 25 years - MSDOS reached Ver 4.x and Windows took over. During that time IBM tried to compete in the OS market with their own 'PCDOS'. We had CPM and eventually Apple, and now we have basically Windows and Apple. Here endeth the history lesson (if you disagree with my version of events then thats your right, I don't really care. Like I said at the begining, I'm basing this on MY experience, not yours!).

 

So, here's my opinion :

 

Google are following Microsofts original model (albeit an accelerated version), they developed Android and licensed manufacturers and, in the USA at least (*** more below), service providors, to allow them to 'tweak' the OS to meet their specific hardware and 'system' requirements. As recent reports suggest, Google will soon tighten their hold on Android by limiting the extent to which they will alow manufacturers to 'tweak'. Those limitations will increase untill Android will be no more 'open source' than Microsoft Windows, if you want to run Android on your hardware then it will be up to you to build the hardware so that it's architecture meets Googles specs. It's a simple, but very efficient, business plan. Develop a product that you can basically 'give away', a 'loss-leader'. Keep improving the product untill you have built a large enough 'loyal' consumer-base, then tighten the screws so that only you can supply that market. With Android, Google's pay-off comes when they have complete control over what you can have on your Android phone and everyone who wants to sell an App to run on that phone gives Google a slice of their particular cake, every search, every route planned through GPS, every bit of media downloaded, comes from Google (yeayyyy no more V-cast). I am certain that Google knew long before anyone else that Verizon would pull their "we want to use Bing so we can get money from Microsoft" stunt, and it's things like that that give Google the perfect excuse (if they needed any) for tightening their hold over the future of Android.

 

So, what was I saying? My opinion, yes! In my opinion, Google have absolutely nothing to do with the delay Fascinate users are experiencing getting Froyo, it is entirely Samsung and Verizon who have dropped the ball, but mostly Verizon (see *** below).

 

*** Outside of the US much tighter consumer protection laws prevented service providors from loading their phones with 'bloatware' the way Verizon have done with their phones - and the Fascinate is the phone with the most bloatware of all (I class Bing as bloatware cos it's useless as a search engine). This restriction on service providors in the rest of the world has resulted in a more 'vanilla' Android experience across the board and as a result of that, the fascinate 'out there' is now getting Gingerbread while we still wait for Froyo. Those of you who argue that the Verizon Fascinate is different because we use CDMA and the rest of the world uses GSM, well, thats a load of poopy. The difference between a phone that uses CDMA and a phone that uses GSM is very limited and dealt with mostly (if not 100%) by hardware not by the OS. Once the radio signal has been retrieved from the ether by the antenna and translated into 0's and 1's the difference between CDMA and GSM is zero (same in reverse)

 

Once again, this is all my opinion based on my experience, agree or disagree as you please, that's your right, just as it's my right to whinge and moan, complain, wine, shout, cry, or whatever I want, about not getting the OS upgarde I was promised when I bought my fascinate.

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Tidbits
Legend

 


Froyoed wrote:

Sorry to those who will complain about me 'resurrecting' an older post, and sorry to those who object to other people having an opinion of their own (why do I see a Canadian flag in my mind when I type that?) and sorry to those who think Fascinate owners should just bend over, I don't agree with any of you...........so, deal with it!

 

Now, onto the Dad-Bill's question as to what input or influence, if any, Google may have regarding the release of Froyo for the Fascinate.

 

To start, I will go back to 1983 cos thats when my 'experience' in IT begins, and it's this 'experience' that shapes my opinon. When Microsoft first started pushing out their DOS (not known as MSDOS originally) it was similar to Google pushing out Android, they wrote the 'source' and others tweaked it to fit their hardware. Microsoft did not deal in hardware, they left that to others and so we had other manufacturers - IBM notably as the original MS 'customer' - who built the hardware tweaked the OS and introduced us to the 'Personal Computer'.

It wasn't long before other electronics manufacturers realised the potential market for PC's and dived headlong into the business of making PC 'clones' around the time that MS released DOS 2.0 now begining to be known as MSDOS, 2.1 and 2.2 followed soon after. By now there was a fairly large number of manufacturers selling PC's - Sanyo, Wyse, Hyundai, Silver Reed, to name a few (forgive my memory if I miss your particular favourite) they all ran 'MSDOS' but, and it's a big but, they all ran their own 'tweaked' version of MSDOS. Microsoft didn't write a different version of MSDOS for every different model PC that was being sold, that was left to the manufacturer so we had MSDOS for SANYO, MSDOS for Wyse, MSDOS for Hyundai, etc etc. Microsoft licensed the manufacturer to 'tweak' the OS as necessary to fit their hardware. Yes Microsoft had input, but basically, if you built hardware that would run a version of MSDOS and you had the license from Microsoft, then you did what was necessary to make it work.

We all know what happened over the next 25 years - MSDOS reached Ver 4.x and Windows took over. During that time IBM tried to compete in the OS market with their own 'PCDOS'. We had CPM and eventually Apple, and now we have basically Windows and Apple. Here endeth the history lesson (if you disagree with my version of events then thats your right, I don't really care. Like I said at the begining, I'm basing this on MY experience, not yours!).

 

So, here's my opinion :

 

Google are following Microsofts original model (albeit an accelerated version), they developed Android and licensed manufacturers and, in the USA at least (*** more below), service providors, to allow them to 'tweak' the OS to meet their specific hardware and 'system' requirements. As recent reports suggest, Google will soon tighten their hold on Android by limiting the extent to which they will alow manufacturers to 'tweak'. Those limitations will increase untill Android will be no more 'open source' than Microsoft Windows, if you want to run Android on your hardware then it will be up to you to build the hardware so that it's architecture meets Googles specs. It's a simple, but very efficient, business plan. Develop a product that you can basically 'give away', a 'loss-leader'. Keep improving the product untill you have built a large enough 'loyal' consumer-base, then tighten the screws so that only you can supply that market. With Android, Google's pay-off comes when they have complete control over what you can have on your Android phone and everyone who wants to sell an App to run on that phone gives Google a slice of their particular cake, every search, every route planned through GPS, every bit of media downloaded, comes from Google (yeayyyy no more V-cast). I am certain that Google knew long before anyone else that Verizon would pull their "we want to use Bing so we can get money from Microsoft" stunt, and it's things like that that give Google the perfect excuse (if they needed any) for tightening their hold over the future of Android.

 

So, what was I saying? My opinion, yes! In my opinion, Google have absolutely nothing to do with the delay Fascinate users are experiencing getting Froyo, it is entirely Samsung and Verizon who have dropped the ball, but mostly Verizon (see *** below).

 

*** Outside of the US much tighter consumer protection laws prevented service providors from loading their phones with 'bloatware' the way Verizon have done with their phones - and the Fascinate is the phone with the most bloatware of all (I class Bing as bloatware cos it's useless as a search engine). This restriction on service providors in the rest of the world has resulted in a more 'vanilla' Android experience across the board and as a result of that, the fascinate 'out there' is now getting Gingerbread while we still wait for Froyo. Those of you who argue that the Verizon Fascinate is different because we use CDMA and the rest of the world uses GSM, well, thats a load of poopy. The difference between a phone that uses CDMA and a phone that uses GSM is very limited and dealt with mostly (if not 100%) by hardware not by the OS. Once the radio signal has been retrieved from the ether by the antenna and translated into 0's and 1's the difference between CDMA and GSM is zero (same in reverse)

 

Once again, this is all my opinion based on my experience, agree or disagree as you please, that's your right, just as it's my right to whinge and moan, complain, wine, shout, cry, or whatever I want, about not getting the OS upgarde I was promised when I bought my fascinate.


 

Everytime I hear someone complain about not getting the update.  I will always say this... Yes it was promised, but WHEN was never promised.  You'll get it, but you will have to wait for it.  All Android devices are using older OS's including a lot of newer ones coming out.  Currently 2.3.3 is out and how many devices right now have 2.3.3 officially?  That's right 2.  This is what happens when you go open source, and Android isn't 100% open source.  It's ASL which allows people to keep code private. 

 

Consumer protection laws?  Sorry I think of it as consumers who can't think for themselves laws.  If people didn't like what is going on.  Not buying it will do more than buying it then complaining about it.  What will get more attention 10,000,000 people buying a device crying about it, or 10,000,000 people return their devices during their return period because they don't like something?  Regardless of a promise if it didn't have what I need out of the box I would have neve purchased it.  If I wasn't sure if it didn't I would have tried it and made sure it does, and if it doesn't it goes right back.  I rather keep my money and get something that works for me than to hold onto something that doesn't then cry about what it doesn't have.  Seems like a HUGE waste of time to me.

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