"GPS Rollover" to make some systems innacurate

[EMRobbins]

I received a notice that my GPS is possibly going to become inaccurate ( https://www.verizonwireless.com/legal/notices/global-positioning-system/?dup=copy&CMP=EMC-UPG_AD_HOC...

the notive recommends I upgrade, i.e., buy a new phone.  This applies to all phones manufactured between 2006 and 2016.

Is this for real, or is it a scam to sell phones?

[vrichards63]

I am also curious about this notice.  Especially since the notice lists this event as happening November 3, 2019, but the DHS website says it happened April 6, 2019.

[Galaxy5owner]

The 11/3/19 date is legit for *some* phones, but not the whole list that Verizon sent out.

Some devices have their firmware set to use a day in February 2000 as a base reference date. For these devices, GPS week number 1023 (binary=1111111111) ends on 11/2/19, a few seconds before 8:00 pm Eastern time (midnight UTC).  At that point, the GPS week flips over to zero (binary=0000000000).  Phones missing necessary updates will display a February 2000 date again.  Texting, calling and GPS navigation will still work, but Calendar & reminders will be a mess.

iPhones with a current iOS update have a new base reference point, and will interpret GPS week zero correctly and display the correct date.

See https://rntfnd.org/2019/10/16/lookout-gps-rollover-problems-still-to-come-for-some-phones-and-pads/

Verizon discontinued updates to my Samsung Galaxy S5 after January 2018... I'm hoping it's at a patch level where it knows to switch over to a newer date reference point.

[Cortica]

According the linked doc in the email I received, the roll-over occurred in April. So either: 1) Verizon sat on this warning until 2 weeks before the "deadline", or 2) Verizon is trying to instill a panic so people will dump their perfectly good phones and buy the insanely priced $800+ models that have been a tough sell.

[MGSHOLAAS]

According to Wikipedia article "GPS Week Number Rollover" (consistent with the DHS article the warning page from Verizon linked to) the rollover happens every 1024 weeks (slightly less than 20 years), with the first one happening August 21-22, 1999. The second happened April 6-7, 2019. I haven't calculated exactly when the next one should be (in late 2038 or early 2039), but it definitely would not be coming November 3, 2019, only 7 months after the previous one. That would be about 19 years too soon. I hope this is just a really stupid mistake (it's troubling; how could this happen?). If this is a deliberate lie to attempt to frighten people into upgrading, it's really evil.

[vzw_customer_support]

Hello, MGSHOLAAS. We appreciate your efforts in researching the GPS Rollover. It is very important to ensure that our customers do have accurate information regarding all of their inquiries. As the Verizon Wireless network advances as well as the industry as a whole does, the devices that are used with the mobile network call for more advanced technology as well. For more information that Verizon Wireless has on this topic, you can refer to the link below. http://spr.ly/66021H87C

BrettA_VZW

[MGSHOLAAS]

Yes, I got the email with that link, and that's what started me researching. I concluded it's grossly in error. I would welcome correction if I am the one who is mistaken. Thank you!

[vzw_customer_support]

MGSHOLAAS, we appreciate your efforts to research this issue, and we would be more than happy to help. To ensure that we're on the same page, can you tell me more information when you mentioned that it's in error? Are you referring to the Global Positioning article as shown here: http://spr.ly/66001Hn6Q Looking forward to hearing back.

LorenzoP_VZW

[MGSHOLAAS]

Yes, errors in the link that came with the warning email, verizonwireless.com/legal/notices/global-positioning-system/. When I searched for more information on the GPS Week Number Rollover (for example, using the DHS link in that very link), I found references only to the April 2019 rollover. Given that date, since the rollover happens every 20 years, the rollover couldn't happen again only 7 months later. So why was Verizon warning us? And did we have problems in April and not know it? And what "problems" might I have have had in April, without realizing it, or might I be about to have, if the warning was correct? The information was conflicting and vague and very scary for those of us who depend on our phones for GPS-related functions.

Subsequently, forum member Galaxy5owner posted that "Some devices have their firmware set to use a day in February 2000 as a base reference date" rather than the date that (apparently) most others in the world use. Because of the February base reference date, they didn't rollover in April, and would rollover in November. The inclusion of that detail would have made some sense of the warning instead of creating massive confusion.

Now if I only could figure out what, if anything, to expect on my fully patched S5 on November 3. I like my phone. I don't want to replace it, and would rather use $800+ to pay the rent. As far as I can tell, this is a defect. Hopefully it's been fixed in a patch. If not, I might have bought a different phone had I known this issue was going to ambush me a few years later.

I appreciate your checking in.

[MSPWSNC]

We have someone using a Droid Mini, which is on the list of possibly affected phones. I haven't heard of any issues with the phone back in April, which leads me to infer that it has a firmware field that will roll over in November.

This phone is long out of warranty, and Motorola isn't even updating the OS anymore (it's stuck back on 4.4.4)

Any conjecture on how to cope? The phone suits this user's needs perfectly, right now, and they have no desire to spend money on a new phone.

[mkbart]

So will there be a patch? This is the requested info.

[vzw_customer_support]

At this time all information available is posted in this link: http://spr.ly/66051HdVU. Any updates will be posted. I hope this helps. AlbertP_VZW

[FPC4]

In what way will this impact the GPS function of my phone?  I have an old Galaxy S4.  The notice that this MAY cause INACCURACIES is frustratingly (and no doubt, deliberately) vague.   It could be that I am in danger of stuck off the side of the road unable to be located by emergency responders or it could be something I might not even notice.    Please describe more throughly what issues are expected.  Thanks.

[WayneB]

I use my phone for directions a lot especially when traveling. Just lately, Verizon replaced my older Samsung S5 with a S7. This occurred early October. Now I find out that they deliberately sent me a defective phone on a warranty replacement.  Why did Verizon give me a defective phone when they knew about the impact of the GPS turnover?

[vzw_customer_support]

WayneB, we understand how important it is to have a properly working device. Warranty replacements are replacements from the manufacturer in which we simply become the middleman to facilitate the replacement for our customers. If you are experiencing a specific issue with your replacement please provide details. Per the manufacturer warranty, if a device is replaced it is replaced like for like or if not available, with the next closest item, such as in your case. LorenB_VZW

If my response answered your question please click the _Correct Answer_ button under my response. This ensures others can benefit from our conversation. Thanks in advance for your help with this!!

[WayneB]

I will keep you posted regarding the S7 replacement phone, since the rollover isn't happening to November 3rd.  So my question is, if the replacement phone is having a host of problems due to changes in the GPS, will I still get replacement of a phone that doesn't have the problems prescribed in the orginal post regarding GPS turnover? 

Since this is a warranty replacement what recourse will I have if my phone becomes problematic?

[vzw_customer_support]

That is a great question. We off information via this link for you: http://spr.ly/66071Hi4F. As stated in the link, We can advise you to 

Please consider upgrading to a newer device by logging in to My Verizon. I hope this helps. AlbertP_VZW

[vzw_customer_support]

I'm sorry about the frustrations this change may cause with your phone FPC4. I understand the need to be aware of what may happen but it may not occur with all impacted devices. Beginning on 11/3/19 the Global Positioning Service (GPS) Rollover may impact mobile devices manufactured between 2006 – 2016.  Verizon business and consumer customers (excluding prepaid) will receive a bill message starting 9/20/19 to notify them of the possible impact. 

The only impacts we are aware of are the following:

• Performance of applications that use GPS 
• Date/Time

There may be a software update that is released by the manufacture for any issues customer may have when this occurs. If you do have issues after this change, we can always review your account for upgrade and replacement options. 

Here is a link with additional information and devices that will be impacted https://www.verizonwireless.com/legal/notices/global-positioning-system/

Let us know if you have any questions? 

KinquanaH_VZW

[Cortica]

Forgot to mention that either way it pushes any resulting sales into the 4th quarter earnings...

[JursyGurl]

So, if this is a known, persistent, industry-wide problem, (as referenced in Wikipedia) - surely, someone in the industry must have written a patch, where do we find it? 

If there is no patch, will the insurance plan sold through Verizon cover this problem? 

This sounds like it was a predictable problem, I hardly see why I need to buy a new junky generic phone when I took good care of the expensive one I already bought at the end of 2016... maybe this is a Class Action thing?  Especially if this is a known problem and the "industry" continued selling bum phones without a notice advising of this issue.

There is NO way I will continue with Verizon if the only way to continue using all the services that were originally sold to me, without giving another penny to Verizon.

Thanks to the other member who have provided their personal research.

[MAPLEST1]

I also found this curious that Verizon has a link to the Homeland Security site that only mentions the April date regarding the rollover.

I decided to just plug in a search for November 3, 2019 and found out that that is daylight savings time day.  So, now I'm guessing the concern is that when our phones change the time back one hour this could create problems.  Why Verizon couldn't just say this in the email they sent is troubling and puzzling.