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No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
Bsanguine
Member

 

Some customers want internet access available 24/7 via their phones, and data packages are a must for them. But I'm positive that hundreds of thousands of us, contrary to your reassurances in the FAQs, do NOT "want" (much less "need") your data packages.

 

I just want to make calls and texts AND use wi-fi hotspots (including my home router) when I DO want to access webmail or surf the net on my phone.

 

You allow us to Block your network's data usage on other phones. I can secure my router so my neighbors can't use my network service, but it doesn't keep them from accessing the internet using their accounts with our mutual internet service provider. You have the technology to prevent us from incurring "accidental" data charges. 

 

We should be able to use the phones we desire (eg. iPhones and Droids) without being forced to pay $20 or more a month for features we will NOT use. 

 

What hubris! It's like saying, "You have to pay $20 a month to our car dealership because you will definitely WANT to use our radio after you buy our car." Really? Just keep the bloody radio because I can't afford $20 a month extra AND I can definitely drive without it. 

 

What I WANT is the OPTION to access the internet on a device that is intended (by the manufacturer) for use with wi-fi hotspots and for making phone calls and for texting.

 

I do NOT want to be forced to OPT-OUT of your data network by virtue of being denied access to a ton of phones with great features that have mandatory, piggybacked monthly charges.

 

Offering FREE or REDUCED-PRICED UPGRADES that come with mandatory monthly fees for unnecessary, undesired features is the pits. I'm the empty-pockets kid outside the candy store looking at "free candy" that I can't have because I'll get charged if I throw away the wrapper.

 

There. I've said my piece in almost as many ways as you've responded to the FAQs. This "It's good for you!" spin on the mandatory data packages? Give us a break. I mean, really.


 

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
Lockup
Member

Prepare for the VZW fanboys to come in here and tell you how VZW is a company and they can do what they want, regardless of the fact that everything you said is true.  You do not need a data plan to use a smart phone.   

Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
rcschnoor
Sr. Leader
Sr. Leader

Lockup wrote:

Prepare for the VZW fanboys to come in here and tell you how VZW is a company and they can do what they want, regardless of the fact that everything you said is true.  You do not need a data plan to use a smart phone.   



And you do not NEED seatbelts to use a car, but try getting one without any.

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
dimap
Novice

Seatbelts are another ""gotta have it" deal. My state has mandatory seatbelt laws.

 

As for mandatory data packages, sorry. Get with the program and roll with it kid. Voice/SMS is old school now, DATA is where it's at, so that's where the new cash cow is. Hubris? No. BUSINESS. And preferably a monopoly too. "Profit at all costs!!!" Those are the words of the VZW CEO himself. That's the American Corporate Way, sir. Don't like it?  Wait till things REALLY start getting good.

 

1 All-Data Networks. Once VoLTE gets up and running, Verizon will carry voice over LTE. Think they'll dump the pricey "voice" plans? Oh no. You'll still pay voice by the minute, but now you WILL need data, or the phone won't work at ALL.

 

2 Automatic Wi-fi handoffs and data off-loading Yep they're working on that too. Wi-Fi on your next smartphone will be a part of the whole data ecosystem and your phone will switch between cellular and wi-fi automatically and seamlessly, wether you want it to or not. And guess what? That Wi-Fi usage will (most likely) be a part of your data package billing.  So the "free" wi-fi will in essence be gone. So you'll NEED a data package to use the wi-fi too.

 

Incidentally, Verizon used to rig their wi-fi stacks so that if you didn't have 3G service on the phone, you would get a DoS on the Wi-Fi too. I say "used to" because I'm not sure if that is the case at present or not. It might still be the case.

 

The idea, in a Corporate driven capitalist society that Consumers have Choice is an illusion son. If the public sector doesn't rape you with taxes, penalties and fines, the private sector will in profittering and usury.

 

"Fascism should be better called Corporatism, because it is the merger of State and Corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
rcschnoor
Sr. Leader
Sr. Leader

dimap wrote:

2 ...And guess what? That Wi-Fi usage will (most likely) be a part of your data package billing.  So the "free" wi-fi will in essence be gone. So you'll NEED a data package to use the wi-fi too.

 



I don't see how this could possibly happen if Verizon is not supplying the data stream for the wifi. This is normally coming from a different source, whether it is from your own router with broadband service you are already paying for, or from a secondary source such as Starbucks, Panera, etc... How do you suppose Verizon justifies charging you for something a separate entity supplies?

 

As it is, Verizon supplies the cellular signal for your cellular data, and can therefore charge to use it.

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
mdram4x4
Leader

now, imagine if vzw let you do this

and you accidently used data without a plan

you are the person that would come on here yelling about it

 

vzw did this for this reason

they got tired of people complaining "but i didnt use data'

and wanting credits

 

 

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
dimap
Novice

rcschnoor wrote:

dimap wrote:

2 ...And guess what? That Wi-Fi usage will (most likely) be a part of your data package billing.  So the "free" wi-fi will in essence be gone. So you'll NEED a data package to use the wi-fi too.

 



I don't see how this could possibly happen if Verizon is not supplying the data stream for the wifi. This is normally coming from a different source, whether it is from your own router with broadband service you are already paying for, or from a secondary source such as Starbucks, Panera, etc... How do you suppose Verizon justifies charging you for something a separate entity supplies?

 

As it is, Verizon supplies the cellular signal for your cellular data, and can therefore charge to use it.


Sure they could charge for wi-fi offloading if they:

 

1 Supply their own wi-fi APs on which the wifi on the phone is automatically connected to. They would control the authentication process, so they could and most likely would, monitor the data stream for billing purposes, certainly for data mining and network management as they are now starting to do (and tell people in these "privacy" emails I regularly recieve). And this is not idle speculation on my part, there is an intitative underway to do this called Wi-Fi 2 or something like that designed for this very purpose. As it is, AT&T has thousands of APs just like this, they just don't auto-offload or bill their customers yet, but the writing is on the wall. VZW could concievably do the same.

 

2 Contract with third-party WiFi providers for offloading services on a wholesale basis. How long do you think 3rd parties would allow "free" offloading of cellular data without compensation agreements? Verizon certainly will not sbsorb these costs, they would go right to the customer as data allowance usages.

 

Now of course, if you manually connect and authenticate to a free service outside of this ecosystem, or if the offloading redirector on the phone connects you to a "free" 3rd party public AP, then no, Verizon would not be legally able to charge for these connections, as is the case at present.

 

In the Verizon market, there is already a Wi-Fi auto-enabler app, that supposedly turns on your wi-fi in range of pre-defined APs, and turns it off out of range, but I read that it doesn't work very well. But again, the writing's on the wall here.

 

Needless to say, I'm quite interested in how this new Wi-Fi initiative will play out over the next few years or so.

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
rcschnoor
Sr. Leader
Sr. Leader

dimap wrote:

rcschnoor wrote:

dimap wrote:

2 ...And guess what? That Wi-Fi usage will (most likely) be a part of your data package billing.  So the "free" wi-fi will in essence be gone. So you'll NEED a data package to use the wi-fi too.

 



I don't see how this could possibly happen if Verizon is not supplying the data stream for the wifi. This is normally coming from a different source, whether it is from your own router with broadband service you are already paying for, or from a secondary source such as Starbucks, Panera, etc... How do you suppose Verizon justifies charging you for something a separate entity supplies?

 

As it is, Verizon supplies the cellular signal for your cellular data, and can therefore charge to use it.


Sure they could charge for wi-fi offloading if they:

 

1 Supply their own wi-fi APs on which the wifi on the phone is automatically connected to. They would control the authentication process, so they could and most likely would, monitor the data stream for billing purposes, certainly for data mining and network management as they are now starting to do (and tell people in these "privacy" emails I regularly recieve). And this is not idle speculation on my part, there is an intitative underway to do this called Wi-Fi 2 or something like that designed for this very purpose. As it is, AT&T has thousands of APs just like this, they just don't auto-offload or bill their customers yet, but the writing is on the wall. VZW could concievably do the same.

 

2 Contract with third-party WiFi providers for offloading services on a wholesale basis. How long do you think 3rd parties would allow "free" offloading of cellular data without compensation agreements? Verizon certainly will not sbsorb these costs, they would go right to the customer as data allowance usages.

 

Now of course, if you manually connect and authenticate to a free service outside of this ecosystem, or if the offloading redirector on the phone connects you to a "free" 3rd party public AP, then no, Verizon would not be legally able to charge for these connections, as is the case at present.

 

In the Verizon market, there is already a Wi-Fi auto-enabler app, that supposedly turns on your wi-fi in range of pre-defined APs, and turns it off out of range, but I read that it doesn't work very well. But again, the writing's on the wall here.

 

Needless to say, I'm quite interested in how this new Wi-Fi initiative will play out over the next few years or so.


But you point out instances where VERIZON IS SUPPLYING the WiFi data stream. They have every right to charge for this service if they see fit. IF they SUPPLY the data, then they have a RIGHT to charge for it. Or do you think that Verizon should set up these AP's out of the goodness of their heart?

 

What I am saying is that they can't charge for a WiFi data stream which they don't SUPPLY, such as from the router in my home. I pay for the broadband service transmitting from that source, so again, tell me how Verizon could justify charging me while using a data stream for which I am already paying.

 

Edit: As to point #2 from above, businesses such as Starbuck and Panera have provided "free" wifi for years. The compensation they receive is the increased business traffic in their establishments. Did you think that they do not PAY for this WiFi data stream that they are giving away for free? They pay for the broadband connection, WiFi servers, etc... and in return they (hopefully) get increased business traffic in their establishment. If it wasn't the case, they would cease the practice. It seems that you are implying that they are giving this WiFi service away for "free" when in fact they feel that they are receiving a payment of extra business to their establishment in return for the "free" WiFi.

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
Lockup
Member

rcschnoor wrote:

Lockup wrote:

Prepare for the VZW fanboys to come in here and tell you how VZW is a company and they can do what they want, regardless of the fact that everything you said is true.  You do not need a data plan to use a smart phone.   



And you do not NEED seatbelts to use a car, but try getting one without any.



Poor statement.  Seatbelts are mandated by the government for safety reasons and they don't cost you a bunch of money to have installed or charge you a monthly fee because they are there.  I am really not worried about my head blowing off if I don't have a data plan on my phone. 

 

And with WiFi I can still use data without using VZWs network.  Now I use some data but my point and the OP point is not everybody needs it.  It is easy not to get data charges as well since VZW is quite capable of blocking data access.  So to say the $30 charge is to protect you from yourself is not valid. 

 

It is all a moot point though since it is here and VZW is very unlikely to change it. 

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Re: No, I do not WANT or NEED mandatory Data Packages
rcschnoor
Sr. Leader
Sr. Leader

Lockup wrote:


Poor statement.  Seatbelts are mandated by the government for safety reasons and they don't cost you a bunch of money to have installed or charge you a monthly fee because they are there.  I am really not worried about my head blowing off if I don't have a data plan on my phone. 

 

And with WiFi I can still use data without using VZWs network.  Now I use some data but my point and the OP point is not everybody needs it.  It is easy not to get data charges as well since VZW is quite capable of blocking data access.  So to say the $30 charge is to protect you from yourself is not valid. 

 

It is all a moot point though since it is here and VZW is very unlikely to change it. 



Not a poor statement. Seatbelts are NOT NEEDED to drive a car and SOMEONE is FORCING you to have them. End of story.

 

A data plan does not cost a bunch of money to have installed, either. And of course there is a monthly fee on data and not on seatbelts. One is a SERVICE and one is an ITEM. There ARE fees on cars, though, such as registration, license, tolls, tickets, etc, which CAN cost you a bunch of money.

 

It just seems that you are having a problem with WHICH entity is mandating this charge. The government mandates charges to use automobiles on their transit system(roads), while Verizon mandates charges to use phones on their transit system(cellular network). No difference, just a different entity imposing the charges.

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