Is Verizon killing Microsoft or forcing loyal customers to spend more money?

[rockman20]

Or is the answer both?

I have been a loyal Verizon customer since 1996. I have done the flip phones, I have done the BlackBerry, I have done the Android, and now I am on the Windows. So far out of every phone I have ever used, I love my Windows Phone. I love that it just works. I don't constantly have to reboot, I don't have constant lockup issues, I don't have anything that I have experienced with previous smart phones. App store is lacking, but seriously........there are only 2 companies that I would want an app for that isn't there yet.

I am due for an upgrade. I have 2 Lumia 822's and an Android on my plan. Both of the Windows phones are due for an upgrade. If 8.1 would ever be released to the 822, I would stay with that. If 8.1 was offered on another Nokia phone at Verizon, I would go with that. Instead, the only thing Verizon offers for 8.1 is the HTC One M8. Awesome phone, don't get me wrong, but seriously? You are forcing me into a $200 phone (with a new contract) times 2 just because Verizon cannot play well with others?

I am eyeballing AT&T. I know the coverage areas are less than Verizon. I know an AT&T customer very well and so far there is only 1 area where I can get a signal that he cannot. I think I might be able to live with that. Every Windows phone AT&T offers comes with 8.1. So that is 4 phones I could chose from. I have been happy with Verizon for many years, but when I look at the supposed "underdogs" in the wireless market and I see that they appear to be able to work with Microsoft and make things happen, I have to start to question. Has Verizon finally gotten too big for their britches? When I see companies that are supposed to be under Verizon and they are able to make deals with a company like Microsoft and offer their customers bigger selections it makes me wonder if I am being pushed into what Verizon feels is right for me. I already pay a premium for my bill. I am okay with that when I look at the coverage map. But being forced into paying for a new device instead of allowing me to update my old one.........I am starting to lose my loyalty.

I am sure there is a lot more to this issue than what I see. But Verizon, I am just a dumb customer that knows what I want. I don't know the politics or the BS that goes on behind the scenes, nor do I want to. But I do know that I look around and see other carriers offering a bigger selection of a small marker and I see that they appear to be working with Microsoft a lot better than you are. This is MY reality and it is causing me to question if I really want to be a loyal customer anymore.

[bsites1968]

I'm starting to take it personally, too.  We have treated Verizon well.  Why can't they treat us well?

[rednibkram]

Do yourself a favor, LEAVE VERIZON!  I'm leaving as soon as AT&T gets Denim on the 1520.  I originally was going to wait to see if the Icon got it first, but now I've decided that with the treatment I have received from Verizon, screw them, I'm going to AT&T!    Its not just for the lack of the update, but for the complete lack of ANY information from Verizon regarding this issue.  We have been treated like Cinderella by her ugly wicked step-mother and I think its time to put the glass slipper on and walk over to AT&T!

[#4]

Why are you still giving that going to AT&T line?

Don't wait go now. January 2015 is the time to go and get what you keep hollering about.

No one cares if -2% market share walks with your glass slippers over to AT&T.

I am waiting at AT&T forums for your foray about if AT&T doesn't get Emerald before Sprint or T-Mobile then you will jump to them.

It is just a phone and not the end of the world. And a phone that makes and receives calls and texts and emails. Geesh

[Alexvrb]

Elector wrote:

It is just a phone and not the end of the world. And a phone that makes and receives calls and texts and emails. Geesh

You keep saying this. You don't even need a smartphone for that, Elector. People *occasionally* buy smartphones for their advanced functionality, much of which is added and/or improved via regular updates. These updates are quite frankly one of the hallmarks of a modern smartphone platform and are a huge part of the smartphone experience. By making a statement like the one I quoted above it makes you come off as someone who never really embraced smartphones in their entirety... and thus your point of view on updates is skewed.

Regardless, when one particular platform's updates are held up by one particular carrier, people are bound to be annoyed. If the attitude at Verizon is the same as yours "who cares there's not enough of them they don't matter" well then I'm quite disappointed. With that being said... yes if you're going to switch just do so. A lot of people are somewhat more entrenched in VZW (for whatever reason, coverage, bundle with TV, etc) and thus switching is less appealing. IMHO those who are not able to switch easily have more of a compelling reason to vent frustrations and to try and enact change. Those who have little to nothing tying them to Verizon can just walk away and say tell VZW on the way out why they left - if they care.

[#6]

Phones have come a long way. However the basic premise is still make and receive calls.

Sure they do more today because technology advances everyday. So they are little computers, GPS devices, fax machines and the list goes on. I understand all that.

What I cannot understand is if you purchase a device and it worked on day one, why now waste time constantly hollering about any updates. Personally I don't care if my phone gets updated. If I get one then yippee.

However I am not wasting my life complaining about not getting one, or getting one faster, or if AT&T or any other carrier has released it. I also cannot fathom the speculation on why the update was sent back to Microsoft.

Who really cares what reasons are. It was sent back.

Then you have that other guy saying if cyan or denim are at AT&T first he/she is jumping to them.

It is the same tired old song. Then on another thread states he had a conversation with Nokia and Verizon and was told it was apps. Again it really makes no difference what the reason is. Its not released.

Venting is fine, but when it keeps popping up over and over all the venting in the world is not going to matter.

[bsites1968]

Didn't you already post this on about a dozen other Cyan posts?  You must watch a lot of reruns on TV. 

[Alexvrb]

Elector wrote:

Phones have come a long way. However the basic premise is still make and receive calls.

Sure they do more today because technology advances everyday. So they are little computers, GPS devices, fax machines and the list goes on. I understand all that.

What I cannot understand is if you purchase a device and it worked on day one, why now waste time constantly hollering about any updates. Personally I don't care if my phone gets updated. If I get one then yippee.

However I am not wasting my life complaining about not getting one, or getting one faster, or if AT&T or any other carrier has released it. I also cannot fathom the speculation on why the update was sent back to Microsoft.

OK so it looks like you haven't really fully embraced smartphones. That's fine. As a result, your thinking will never change ("it's the same as when you bought it what's the big deal") and we'll just never see eye to eye on updates.

Regarding "wasting my life" OK wow I never thought you were a Richard until that. I didn't agree with you a lot but just wow. Thanks. I could say you're "wasting your life" complaining about people complaining.

[#9]

Its never a waste to set people straight who were or on a folly.

My use of cell phones does not matter. I get them dumb updates on my device all the time.

But what you and others are missing here is " I am not erroneously telling the carriers they have to give me that update" they don't have to.

Now that the updates are going out the nasty posts about Verizon taking their time getting it out and the my device is not working properly now begins. It is a vicious cycle.

[Alexvrb]

Your usage of cell phones (or lack thereof) does matter. Because it seems you simply do not understand, nor are you capable of understanding, why people would be bothered by this type of scenario. "I get them dumb updates on my device all the time." That alone tells me volumes, and basically you can't ever see things from our perspective. Thus you are unsympathetic and your OPINION on the matter of updates is going to invariably be "oh they're worthless". Well they're worth something to us, a lot as a matter of fact. So this thing you don't value, we value. You could respect that if you wanted to, or you could continue with your current line of thinking. I suspect I know where you'll head.

Plus you're not exactly a saint - telling people they're wasting their life asking for what you view as pointless, when it is obviously important to them. Your way or the highway, right bub? If you're truly nice people will figure it out. If you have to sit on your tall horse and tell people that you're a nice guy... you might not be quite as perfectly nice as you think.

[#11]

I am going to try and explain something to you as a nice guy would. I have owned and used every cellular phone from the first analog 3 watt bag phone and the old brick phone I carried in a briefcase.

Previous to that I used my fathers mobile car phone which was a microwave transmission device if memory serves me. Just like in our home it looked the same and the operator handled the calls.

Then I moved on from analog devices to digital. It was natural progression. However you did not have the constant complaining as you do today back in cellulars beginning. You made phone calls, you may depending on device text message. That was it. Still with me?

As technology made strides the cellular phones made leaps and bounds. Now instead of the $5 a month Verizon Mobile Web (remember that oldie)? You had a full GUI in the newer devices. The devices still made and received voice calls and text messages. I believed the calls ran about $1.30 a minute back then and text messages were .25¢ each. We have come a long way.

However, with devices being farmed out via different manufacturers using (Android) or (iOS) and now (Windows)

Just because the device makers add new features or enhancements does not mean you get these for life.

If you buy a car and every year something new is added to entice sales you as the owner of the 2014 model year cannot call the dealer and demand those new features be given to you. You see having the 2014 model year does not mean it does not function as to when you purchased the car. Now if the car maker says we are giving an update to your cars voice control system to make your travels better and its free. It is a simple courtesy. Not a given right. Still following.?

Your windows phone or any device does not automatically entitle you to any future updates. Nada zilch none.

What you paid for is what you are using now, if a sales person lied to make a sale and you were suckered that speaks volumes to me about you.

I have used androids/droids/iOS and personally updates although never a problem to my wife and I are a great problem to many on this and other forums. Yes I belong to many forums.

The update hits your device and bam....the battery life is worse, the WiFi is not functional, the screen shuts off and will not come back on, the Bluetooth is not hooking to your car or home speakers or uconnect. And the list goes on.

Now as with my apple devices I have now seen one update and I believe four patches to that update. Why?

Again my device worked perfectly *before* the updates.

This is why I try and let people know not to be rushing for updates. Wait it out.

The other aspect is many are under the impression that the carriers must give them. Again this is false information. They don't. And the constant complain to the FCC etc. Is a waste since they don't have the authority to force them to give any updates. But people did not like hearing the truth.

Then the threats of Verizon's at fault and if we don't get it by such and such a date we will go to another carrier.

You see when I read these types of posts and the people that agree with them without using their brains speaks volumes to me of how little they know in the matter.

Again my phone use is *my business* not yours. I don't personally care if updates get to me or not. Neither does my wife but we don't get up everyday angry with the carrier for not giving them or giving them on time.

[jambodia]

Much like your posts.

[rockman20]

First off, thank you Verizon for finally releasing the 8.1 update for the Lumia 822. I downloaded the update last night as soon as I saw that it was available and now I have been spending the morning letting it run the update and it is migrating my data as I type. Again, thank you for getting that done!

Now, Elector, all I can say is wow. For someone who is so tired of all the complaining and whining, you sure do spend a lot of time doing the same. Verizon released the update. Was it because of all of us whiners? It very well could be! Am I happy? I most certainly am. For a group of users who make up such a small percentage of smart phone users, we sure seem to be able to get under your skin.

I have never been one to get into a pissing match with someone like you. I have seriously sat here and tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but with every post you put up, I definitely have lost any respect that I may have once had for you.

I am sorry that you do not agree with us whiners and complainers. But I am definitely glad that you are able to voice your opinion much like I am able to voice mine. For that I am thankful. So with that I only ask one thing. The next time your home computer (if you have one running Windows) lets you know that there is an update out there and you accept it, please remember that you got the update because Microsoft approved it and we thankfully do not live in a world where our ISP's (that stands for Internet Service Provider) do not block a Microsoft update because they are "working with Microsoft". The next time you buy a new car and there is a recall because the computer has a glitch that just needs a quick re-program remember to be thankful that your dealership cannot block that update because they are working with the company.

I know, more analogies that don't mean anything. I am sorry that I gave it an effort to help you to understand that I never once felt like I "deserved" this update. Had Microsoft come out and said my phone was not capable of handling the update or that they were not going to program the update to work with my device, I would have purchased a new phone so that I could take advantage of 8.1. But I definitely felt cheated when Microsoft said that my phone is capable and that 8.1 would work on my device and they were even nice enough to offer it free of charge to current users. Only to have my provider tell me that I can't have it and then never gave a good explanation as to why I couldn't have it.

I understand that no matter what anyone else has to say or what I say, you will never open up and see where I was coming from. You are much happier stirring the pot and closing your mind to it all. Again, I never attacked you for your view. Some people are okay with the older technology and do not utilize all of the features quite like others do. I think that is great. Where you are wrong, however, is when you take the time to attack and accuse others that don't see the world in the same light that you do.

Merry Christmas everyone! (Yes, even you Elector!) It looks like Verizon has given me my gift a couple days early and for that I am once again a happy Verizon customer. I hope that everyone can be surrounded with people who love them and that everyone is safe. My present looks like it is on step 17 of 21 so I am going to sit here patiently and wait for it to finish.

[#14]

I am not trying to hurt your feelings. I am only giving an alternate opinion.

I have many windows machines. Desktop, laptops and I also have a iMAC  and again I don't care about updates.

If you can count every time there is yet another Microsoft update I would not want that same "patch" work constantly done to my windows phone and that is a frightening possibility with any os made by Microsoft.

I don't mind the first MS DOS (that means disk operating system), then Windows 3.1 then Windows 95, 98, ME, Vista, Windows 7 and then Windows 8. (Thirty days later it went to Windows 8.1) and I have spent loads of cash on these products and the devices that are rendered useless with many of these so called Microsoft updates etc.

You see I don't blindly accept that its just another huge money grab on Microsoft's part.

Now touching on your update, wow you finally received it. Who is to say it would have not been released before Christmas without all the complaints and threats? And because these windows phone owners complained and threatened Verizon that it was the carriers fault for the delay it has been proven it went back to Microsoft for not being up to Verizon's standards. But a few then say it was because of Verizon's Bloatware Apps but be honest no such news release from either party said that was correct. But it has to be the bad carrier.

And in you post to me, read back I responded to a post you made directly towards me. Not the other way around.

And quite frankly this is all moot now. You have your update.

But go on this forum and notice the two posts from this morning complaining about a camera and tiles not showing etc. Like I said its the same with Android users yelling for updates and then after getting them the complaints start rolling in.

And my platform is not without sin, Verizon did nothing to give iOS updates but after Apple pushes them out the multiple complaint posts all start. Like I stated it is a vicious cycle.

I do advocate the Apple method of updating for all devices and just leave out the carrier from holding it up or not giving it. Even if you have to login to the device makers website.

So you really have no basis to form any opinion on me.

And Merry Christmas to you as well.

[#15]

jambodia wrote:

Much like your posts.

I see you missed the brain part in my previous reply to another.

Otherwise I and others would know just what you are writing about. I know I sure don't.

[rockman20]

It is amazing how combative some people can get on a public form. With most of the replies on this thread, it doesn't matter what I say. Everything will always be wrong and I will be in the wrong. That is alright by me. As I stated in my original post, I am just a dumb customer that knows what I want.

So, why did I write this? Because I work in an IT related field where I work with many large vendors. These large vendors tend to start to take notice when more and more people start complaining about the same thing. Right now the Microsoft market on Verizon is weak to say the least. A larger vendor will not take note to many complaints. It is just the way business works. You are a successful company and you concentrate on the items that have made you that successful. If I don't make my voice heard, then Verizon doesn't see that there is yet another unhappy customer. If the numbers don't add up, you get rid of the item as it is weighing you down.

As a member of this form I have the right to voice my opinion. I am not attacking other posters, I am stating the facts as they are to me. The other awesome thing about being a member of this form is that if I don't want to read something, I have the choice not to open it or read it. If I am tired of seeing everyone complain about a particular item, I glaze over it and I move on with my form browsing.

A phone is a phone, that is absolutely correct. But if I wanted just a phone, I would have found the most stripped down, generic, least functional phone out there. But I wanted more. I wanted my phone to interact with my computer. I wanted to be able to use a remote terminal connection to connect to Microsoft servers here at work. I wanted my One Note documents to be at my fingertips whether I was at my desk at work or on the road with my phone. That is why I chose the phone I did and the same reason why I went with the OS that I did.

2 years ago this was the best there was for Microsoft. Now they have something better. This something better has been out for a little while now. This something better could easily be put on my current phone which would mean I can have Cortana, the swype texting, the ability to utilize a background picture, a file manager so I can actually move files on my phone, a new notification area, the ability to project to my computer without needing to use a third party app, a more robust calendar, and the ability to utilize a VPN connection which would be terrific for my work.

So yes, a phone is a phone. But I didn't buy just a phone. And yes there are complaints all over the web about Verizon not releasing the update to phones. But if voices are not heard, as a company, you assume that nothing is wrong.

A car is a car. It gets you from point A to point B. So because of that, I think we should go back to the Model A. No power steering, no cruise control, no overdrive, no AC, no power anything, and definitely no 400, 500, or 600 ponies under the hood to tow the 10,000 pound boat behind. But why have all of those comforts when bottom line is, a car is a car. Let's say you spend over $20,000 on a car with no heated seats. A few years down the road you find out that the company who built your car has offered an upgrade. You can now have heated AND cooled seats for free. Your car is capable of the upgrade and all you need to do is allow them to update it. However, the dealership you bought the car from is not allowing this upgrade because they are still working with the manufacturer of your vehicle. You wouldn't be mad?

It may not be EXACTLY the same thing, but it is along the same lines. If I knew my phone was not capable of the update, I would suck it up and I would buy a new phone and things would be fine. But when I know that the reason why I can't get the update is because a company that I have been with for 18 years now seems to be dragging their feet and they can't give any other explanation other than they are working with Microsoft? I am a little upset and I feel a little cheated.

So for those of you who are tired of reading posts about people complaining about the 8.1 update, please, feel free to never open this thread again and feel free to stop following it so you will never get updates on it again. For those who feel that a phone is a phone, I have around 5 old phones sitting around my house that I would gladly sell to you. They all sent and received calls very well back when I was still using them. However, my needs have changed and I now need more than just a phone which is why I went with a Microsoft smart phone.

For Verizon, I hope that you are listening and I hope that you add me to the list of unhappy customers you have right now. I know that I am just a drop in a very large bucket for you, but I would like to believe that you still care about all of your little drips. And for everyone else, thank you for reading this.

[grafixguy]

I'd like to believe that, too, but through their actions, or should I say inaction, they've pretty much proved that they don't care. To be honest, I can see why, but at least come out with a statement for Windows Phone users telling us they have no plans to further support the devices and perhaps offer a trade in program.

It's enough of the BS. I really have no problem being last, but this has gone beyond that and there's no realistic end in sight.

[#18]

Wow what a long analogy amounting to zero.

Let's try your car analogy in a better perspective. All cars do the same basic functions. They move on four wheels, they have an engine, brakes, wipers etc. But it is not a given right to get any upgrade from the Model A up to a Model T.

If you want heated seats you pay for them, you want premium features you pay for them. Although a Hugo and Tesla are both autos the add ons and build quality are what distinguish one from the other.

Now your cell phone analogy, you purchased a phone (Windows phone in this case) which has a less than 2% customer base and falling in the USA. The carriers took Microsoft devices to sell and make money, they have lost money. Now in cars if there are improvements you don't get them unless you buy the newer model.

Same with cell phones, on date of purchase it was working as it should and it still works today. Now in that venue because Microsoft/Chrysler puts out a enhancement not having to do with safety but to bring more bells and whistle to the phone/car does not require the carrier/dealership to give those bells and whistles.

In the case of safety Verizon's as well as dealerships provide the update. (Hate having to use both analogies)

Like I said the phone worked on day of purchase, it works now. So you are getting the service from the carrier which is access to the cellular and data network. That is it.

Now like car dealers if your Hugo is getting new stereo speakers but one dealer is charging for them and another down the road is installing for free which do you choose? The premium speakers do not make the car go any faster, it is simply a perk not a necessity much like the phone updates.

But I loved you long drawn out analogy.

[#19]

Verizon announces Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1 to Lumia 928, Lumia 822 | Windows Central

http://www.winbeta.org/news/verizon-begins-roll-out-windows-81-update-1-lumia-928822-icon-update-com...

Actually I am a pretty decent guy. However telling folks to cool their jets and wait for any update seems to not get a person likeability. Then again I am not here to be liked. I am here to help when I can.

As stated over and over and over, when Verizon is ready then you may or may not get any updates. Not via threats or intimidation but patience.

[lylone]

Why did Verizon send me an email saying they have a new Nokia Lumia 928 on reserve for me?  I guess they are hoping I will add another line, do Edge or buy a new phone outright instead of waiting for Denim on my ICON.  It kind of was a slap in the face when I got the email..  "Here, give us more money if you want the update sooner than waiting some more". 

[Peter_T]

The upgrade to Windows Phone 8.1, Update 1 has been available to Nokia Lumia 822 users as of yesterday (Saturday, December 20, 2014).   I upgraded my Lumia 822 yesterday and all went well with the upgrade (though the upgrade process took over six hours).