Just tell us the truth

[mhb2941]

Dear Verizon,

You really seem to miss the level of frustration that exists by not providing the 8.1update.  It is not days behind, not even weeks, it’s months behind.  Something is obviously going on that you (Verizon) are not telling us (Verizon Windows Customers). It is almost as if you wish to end your participation in the ecosystem entirely.  Regardless, you owe us a better explanation that references to company policy and curt “we here ya” styled replies. 

It is not as if your customers are being unreasonable, we simply wish to know when you will provide an upgrade. If the answer is never, at least tell us.  Trust me, deal with this now, it is not the Nokia/Microsoft brand being hurt – it is Verizon.

As a business, we always stay current with upgrades and demand our vendors provide them in a timely manner. You have failed on this point.  Failed! Either report the truthful status of the delinquent upgrade or our entire company will make a change, and not just the Windows phone users.  

A very frustrated customer

[evilkingteapot]

I understand the frustration with Verizon but I am beginning to think they're not the only one's at fault here. For months I was steaming that there was no Cyan update and in the past Verizon has been painfully slow in getting out updates. In some cases they've even discontinued work on updates they said would be available. Their lack of communication to both the customer service reps and customers does not do Verizon any favors. You would think that someone would just address the problem directly and say "this is why Cyan is not out yet." And for that I say "Verizon, you suck."

But now that Joe Belfiore has come out and tweeted that "MS/Verizon are working on some bug fixes-- VZW taking the quality seriously. We aren't sure how long it will take, but work is underway." I know that everyone loves Joe because he's Mr. Likeable. He always pumps the social media channels but he got where he is because he's good at what he does - interacting with people. What I'm seeing from that statement is that Microsoft is downplaying the severity of the bugs that Verizon may be finding with Cyan. And with Microsoft's history of crap updates, I don't really blame Verizon here. Verizon makes money selling and supporting things that work with Windows Phone. So if MS breaks a bluetooth stack and someone's heart monitor stops working, Verizon will get the flak for it.

If Microsoft/Nokia/whatever you want to call them now is really serious about pushing regular updates to phones like Apple does, than push your providers to allow OTA updates on your schedule. Or here's a better idea - maybe not barrage the hell out of me with Cortana ads when I can't use Cortana. It just makes me mad at the brand. Wait until the software is out before hyping the hell out of it. Maybe someone can ask their 8.1 phone with Cortana if Cyan will ever be ready for release.

There are lots of reasons why I don't think Windows Phone will continue to be a viable platform and am considering switching to a new phone and possibly service provider at the same time. You make Windows Phone 8 incompatible with Windows Phone 7, you require developers to use Windows 8.1 to use a version of Visual Studio that will work with Windows Phone 8............ It just kills me because I think Microsoft has a good platform, but they really need to send someone to Harvard business school to study how Apple does things. If you're going to buy Nokia and go all in then GO ALL **** IN! And I don't mean paying CNN analysts to use Windows Phone as a kickstand for their iPhones.

[Tidbits]

I just want to say...  Apple is a poor comparison.  It's a placebo effect.

If you ever join ADC you'll find out some devices and for certain carriers are finished long before others do.  The only thing Apple does is wait for ALL of them to be finished before pushing them out.

[Anonymous]

Tidbits, I thought this to be the case about Apple. But Microsoft is still not agile enough, because if Microsoft waited to release when all devices were updated, and hid from the public that some phones were finished while others were not, then all Windows Phones would be obsolete twice over.

[Tidbits]

I am not going to say what I said months ago.  I wrote it over and over, and tried to get people to do things differently.  FCC, BBB, and so forth and so on isn't working.

At this point all I am going to say is:

Look at Europe if you want to change how updates are done.  They blame the manufacturers, and we blame the carrier.  They have the results we want. 

[Anonymous]

Tidbits, go back and look at my post, I never was on that FCC, BBB bandwagon. I assume you were lumping me with such users.

[Anonymous]

Go back and read my post number 5, I am blaming a lot on Microsoft here.

[Tidbits]

I wasn't pointing at you at anyone really. I know someone will eventually come in saying should do what everyone has been doing for the past 6 years.

I am going to get called a troll or Verizon shill. Someone may claim they have insider information and reveal anything to back it up or even say anything about said information other than people should believe him.

I am waiting for those guys to come in this thread so I thought of taking a preemptive strike.

[Tidbits]

Never reveal. I should proofread better.

[Alexvrb]

For the record Tidbits I'm not calling you a troll nor do I mean to imply you are one. There's a couple of those lurking around ready to "Help" users by telling them we don't matter (marketshare), or insist that since Verizon legally owes us nothing and we should just shut up. You're not one of those. However, I must reiterate that the fact that there's a few bugs affecting some AT&T devices should not automatically throw an all-stop lever. Perhaps they could set up an opt-in beta program that is better than the dev preview - more current code, more current firmware (dev preview on VZW doesn't have current Cyan firmware at the moment, IIRC).

[Tidbits]

I have said it before about a device preview. Nokia doesn't need Verizon approval to make this happen.

HTC and Motorola have beta programs. Carriers don't opt in to it.

[Alexvrb]

But Cortana is available on many models, including VZW's M8. They should advertise it. Further, Mr. Belfiore is being diplomatic. Verizon is being silent. Verizon probably just recently bothered to test the update and kicked it back. AT&T seems to have worked with MS right when they got their hands on the update. We'll be lucky to see it before the year is over.

[Anonymous]

Alexvrb,

Att's devices are experiencing bugs with the 8.1 update.

[Alexvrb]

I'm sure some have had issues. Smartphones often experience bugs. You keep saying this over and over like it means something significant LOL. My dad's old Droid was one issue fixed, another issue introduced, for it's entire update lifecycle. He's had his fair share of hiccups with his previous Galaxy Nexus and his Note 2 has email issues after a recent update. How many times has an iOS update caused any number of bugs, from annoying to crippling? All the time! That has never stopped the updates. Verizon is "taking quality very seriously" with WP 8.1... nudge nudge wink wink *cough*stalling*cough*. I sure as heck don't see them waiting until there's zero bugs on all devices for other smartphones.

At the very least be more open about how long you're sitting on the updates before testing commences, err I mean, how the testing process is going.

[Tidbits]

Alexvrb wrote:

At the very least be more open about how long you're sitting on the updates before testing commences, err I mean, how the testing process is going.

100% positive carriers are under an NDA and only the manufacturer can give any detail.  See Motorola, and T-Mobile with the Motorola Cliq.  T-Mobile regurgitated what Motorola said only after Motorola said it.  People sued T-Mobile and not Motorola...  Which was hilarious...  Motorola flat out said it was a driver issue with Sharp and it took Sharp 6 months to deliver their drivers to Motorola.   I wish the old threads were around to show you.  There was similar things happening with HTC and the One S update not happening.  People still blamed T-Mobile for it.

So no matter a carrier does they are in a catch 22.  Microsoft finally admitted they got the update back.  Not one person even bothered to ask them how many times this has this happened.  I bet they won't give you an answer(which make me believe more than a handful of times).

[Alexvrb]

The dev preview is no replacement. If a beta program could have the latest firmware too, it would be acceptable. In that case it would probably have to be at least Verizon-sanctioned. Regarding NDAs, if that was the case they could state they are under NDA and not allowed to discuss X Y and Z as a result, and tell us whatever they can.

Anyway, if non-Verizon models weren't already running the update on essentially identical hardware, I'd certainly blame MS a lot more here. If there was a really massive important Android update for several SGS models and Verizon was way behind the other carriers, I don't know that blaming it on some minor bugs would go over all that well. Nor would the lack of communication in general. But at this point I think a lot of people would be happy to hear they're getting it before the year is over.

[Tidbits]

It should be a given if you are working with Microsoft. IBM has one and still to this day never said they have one. Even Microsoft fully ripped off IBM and walked away with billion dollar producing software and IBM has yet to say anything in fear of violating the NDA.

HTC and Motorola have a beta program without carrier involvement and have been doing it for the past 2 years (Motorola has done it longer). Nokia/MS can do it on their own. If they say they can't they are lying to you.

[Tidbits]

I have signed NDA where I can't confirm nor deny things. If I do either or I will violating it could be sued and surely be fired. I may also never get a job again in the field I work in. Microsoft is one of those companies that have similar NDA.

[theBoringCoder]

Do you have a source link, vzwenduser, to something authoritative about AT & T devices "[...]experiencing bugs with the 8.1 update"? Without an authoritative source to back up what you post, it looks like you're trolling, or just pointing the finger back at Microsoft to get the heat off of Verizon.

[Alexvrb]

He's not trolling but the problems are neither widespread nor (from what I've seen and heard) are they serious. It's well in line with typical smartphone big-update teething issues. You can probably pick any modern smartphone at random and at some point in it's career some users ran into issues with such-and-such update. Heck in the case of Apple, they've accidentally ROYALLY screwed up millions of devices at a time and yanked the update and it's just "oops oh well these things happen".

[footballwizz692004]

This is another of those times when it is easy to blame Verizon. I know it is frustrating to not get answers, but never assume that Verizon has the answer and is refusing to give it to you. Asking any representative to give you information that they are not provided with will either lead to "I don't know" or it will lead to rumors without facts. As for Verizon handing down the information, that would be like asking Verizon to look into the future and tell you if you will win the lottery next month. Verizon will not pass down information that either; they do not have, or that they have any reason to believe will change. Providing updates is not something verizon does themselves. The company that creates the update makes a deal with each carrier to sell the updates to them. These legal deals can take a very long time to come to an agreement on, they may even give up if it is seen that no reasonable deal will ever be made.

I cannot speak for Verizon really, this is my understanding of how business's work. To provide something to your customers you must first have this something in your possession. To get this something you must make a deal with the people that do have this something that you want.