Seriously, VZW, WP 9 Dev Preview was just announced...

[RobPat406]

...and we don't have the GA version of WP 8.1 yet.  What's going on?  When will it be pushed?  It has been over 4 months now.  I need Cortana to tell me when to get flowers for my wife!  Seriously, this is ridiculous...

[Tidbits]

rednibkram wrote:

Obviously, otherwise they might have a clue as to how much their update process really sucks!

As I told the Senior Lead Tech Support executive who called me yesterday, just because AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile or any other carrier isn't willing to extend pre-testing to manufacturers, doesn't prevent Verizon from making that first step.  If Verizon would extend this "Apple-esk" pre-release pretesting to Microsoft, Samsung, HTC, Googe, etc I'm quite sure these manufacturers would be more than willing to work with them.  And if Verizon takes the first step, AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile might just follow suit, but Verizon would always be able to claim they opened that gate first.

No carrier doesn't need to do this... the manufacturer can do this on their OWN.  Proof of concept.  You don't need carriers to do anything.  Carriers have less power than you THINK they do.  Pre-testing is nothing more than a beta program is.  They CAN do it on their own, but they choose not to.  Basically we want carriers to fit the bill so they don't have to.  They want the carriers to take the brunt of the blame.

HTC - Beta program

https://elevate.htc.com/intake/1

(This is invite only, and they take a handful of people and they also beta test devices, and updates on various carriers).  No carrier involvement.  I had invites, but I passed them all out already for this year.

Motorola beta program

MOTOROLA OWNERS' FORUM | MOTOROLA MOBILITY Inc. USA | Home

(sign up and you can find the threads about the beta testing)

[rednibkram]

Manufacturers can BETA test the software on their device, this is true.  Microsoft has been doing it since Windows Phone 8.1 Developer Preview.  However this applies ONLY to the operating system, not the firmware, and this is where you are wrong.  All carriers DEMAND they be able to test firmware updates before it is 'allowed' to be released OTA.  I have already confirmed this with Verizon Corporate.  They admitted it to me..."We test the firmware to ensure any changes to the hardware of your device does not cause problems on the network.  If we allow a change on a Windows device and it causes problems on the network, that would not be fair to the Android or Apple users on our network.  We will never allow a release of firmware on our network until we can ensure it will not cause problems for other users."

HTC and Motorola are following suit behind Microsoft with the Developer Preview program, but none of them would be able to push out a FIRMWARE update without the authority of the carriers.  If Microsoft were to bypass the carriers testing and release a firmware update that caused network issues on any of the carriers, Microsoft could be sued by the carrier for damaging their network.  Even Apple has to have their firmware changes tested before it is released, it's just that Apple is allowed (because of the power they possess) to "pre-test" the firmware before they announce an iOS update.  I'm saying all the manufacturers should be granted this same "pre-testing of firmware" as Apple.

[Tidbits]

rednibkram wrote:

Manufacturers can BETA test the software on their device, this is true.  Microsoft has been doing it since Windows Phone 8.1 Developer Preview.  However this applies ONLY to the operating system, not the firmware, and this is where you are wrong.  All carriers DEMAND they be able to test firmware updates before it is 'allowed' to be released OTA.  I have already confirmed this with Verizon Corporate.  They admitted it to me..."We test the firmware to ensure any changes to the hardware of your device does not cause problems on the network.  If we allow a change on a Windows device and it causes problems on the network, that would not be fair to the Android or Apple users on our network.  We will never allow a release of firmware on our network until we can ensure it will not cause problems for other users."

HTC and Motorola are following suit behind Microsoft with the Developer Preview program, but none of them would be able to push out a FIRMWARE update without the authority of the carriers.  If Microsoft were to bypass the carriers testing and release a firmware update that caused network issues on any of the carriers, Microsoft could be sued by the carrier for damaging their network.  Even Apple has to have their firmware changes tested before it is released, it's just that Apple is allowed (because of the power they possess) to "pre-test" the firmware before they announce an iOS update.  I'm saying all the manufacturers should be granted this same "pre-testing of firmware" as Apple.

Then explain what's the difference between HTC and Nokia.  HTC doesn't use Verizon as a scape goat, and beta test their software with their users.  They also update their devices since last year in a reasonable time with each other usually within 90 days of release of the updates.  So how can HTC release software in a "timely" manner with Verizon and sooner than Verizon's best seller as WELL as their current soon to be released devices.  That AUTOMATICALLY defeats the argument...  IF they are withholding updates to get people to upgrade.  They could have withheld The HTC One update to get people to upgrade to the M8, or even the S5... Note 4 coming out next month...  Why didn't they?  Why just windows phone?  Why didn't they withhold the Motorola X update?  These are the bottom of the barrel Seriously, think about it.  ADC and HTC release the firmware with new radio firmware, and new drivers and Verizon doesn't do anything about it.  So only Microsoft will be sued?  Seriously get real for a minute.  Then HTC and Motorola would get sued as well because they are doing the EXACT thing YOU want Microsoft to do...  I get updates from HTC for my M8(Android) which just the last 2 had radio changes and also had some bluetooth changes.  So if something happens and causes network problems HTC will get sued(Based on the fact you said MS would get sued for this)?

Here's a secret...  Do you know why Carriers are subjugated to ADC?  Their software they want their users to download.  ANYONE that develops software and wants it on the iOS devices are FORCED to join ADC.  Welcome to the placebo effect again.  Like I told you before get an iOS device and join ADC and watch what happens.  Carriers will test the network while they are at it BECAUSE it's there.  HTC and Motorola has already shown you DON'T need the carriers for this...  Their respective beta programs which has been going on the past 2-3 years have shown.

Sorry all I see is a whole bunch of people want to hold Verizon for things Nokia has control over.  It's easier to blame Verizon is because they are easier to contact.  I wish you the best of luck

[rednibkram]

The difference between HTC and Nokia is the "testing phase" that Verizon demands.  Which, now you've just proven my point.  Microsoft provided the Cyan update to Verizon on July 15th, 2014 (Verizon has already admitted to this fact).  HTC's new HTC One M8 for Windows didn't get released until late August.  HTC has already released another update to the HTC One M8 while the Lumia Icon and Lumia 928 have yet to see the Cyan update.  Why?  Because, as Verizon has admitted, the Cyan firmware update is still being tested.  How can an HTC update that was given to Verizon AFTER the Cyan update was given to them, be released BEFORE the Cyan update that they are still testing?  Sounds a bit like product manipulation to me. 

And again, in regards to ADC, you are confusing software updates with firmware updates.  In the case of Verizon, Verizon Corporate has already confirmed with me that ANY firmware update MUST be tested by Verizon to ensure the changes do not create problems on their network.  Apple, HTC, Motorola, Microsoft Mobile OY (formerly Nokia), Samsung, Google etc. can upgrade/update/manipulate their software as much as they want to and can push it out to their devices for developer testing at any time.  The carriers don't really care, but (as in the case with Microsoft) will warn you that it will "void your warranty".  Downloading software from the manufacturer that has not yet been approved by Verizon is "at your own risk."

However, if there are any firmware changes (as firmware affects hardware on the device), all of the carriers DEMAND that they first be allowed to test the firmware changes on their network BEFORE they will allow it to be released to our devices.  They do this to ensure it does not create any negative impacts to the network.  This is required, not only for us customer, but because the Federal Governemnt also has contracts with these networks for services, and cannot have connectivity issues.

ADC is for software, basically "apps."  It does not necessaritly include firmware, although I won't go so far as to say it "doesn't."   Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, they all have "network specific" apps that they want installed on our devices, and these apps are also being tested by the carriers to ensure they work on the device with the new software.  For example, since the "My Verizon" app includes access to my account, Verizon tests this app for security issues to ensure any "firmware" (hardware changes) doesn't allow the app to transmit account information via bluetooth, wifi, etc.

[Tidbits]

rednibkram wrote:

The difference between HTC and Nokia is the "testing phase" that Verizon demands.  Which, now you've just proven my point.  Microsoft provided the Cyan update to Verizon on July 15th, 2014 (Verizon has already admitted to this fact).  HTC's new HTC One M8 for Windows didn't get released until late August.  HTC has already released another update to the HTC One M8 while the Lumia Icon and Lumia 928 have yet to see the Cyan update.  Why?  Because, as Verizon has admitted, the Cyan firmware update is still being tested.  How can an HTC update that was given to Verizon AFTER the Cyan update was given to them, be released BEFORE the Cyan update that they are still testing?  Sounds a bit like product manipulation to me.

You are going off tangent here.  Your arguments are falling apart.  First you said they need Verizon for pretesting.  HTC and Motorola proves it doesn't need Verizon.  I beta tested the M8(WP), and I am beta testing another device on Verizon from HTC(No idea branding and model number).  This pretesting is happening with Verizon...  Now you are changing your argument because you know this is true.  Now you jump back to the update near the end of the process over pretesting.  HTC and Motorola PROVES you don't need pretesting.

And again, in regards to ADC, you are confusing software updates with firmware updates.  In the case of Verizon, Verizon Corporate has already confirmed with me that ANY firmware update MUST be tested by Verizon to ensure the changes do not create problems on their network.  Apple, HTC, Motorola, Microsoft Mobile OY (formerly Nokia), Samsung, Google etc. can upgrade/update/manipulate their software as much as they want to and can push it out to their devices for developer testing at any time.  The carriers don't really care, but (as in the case with Microsoft) will warn you that it will "void your warranty".  Downloading software from the manufacturer that has not yet been approved by Verizon is "at your own risk."

Oh no I am not confusing it.  I have been on ADC since the iPhone 3G.  You watch the change logs and you'll see which devices are finished and which are not.  At times you'll see a 3 month gap between devices.  Apple just waits to deliver their updates.  HTC replaces devices they break with their update.  You are doing them a favor, and guess what... Like I said earlier...  Nokia would rather carriers pay for it instead of themselves like Motorola and HTC have done.

However, if there are any firmware changes (as firmware affects hardware on the device), all of the carriers DEMAND that they first be allowed to test the firmware changes on their network BEFORE they will allow it to be released to our devices.  They do this to ensure it does not create any negative impacts to the network.  This is required, not only for us customer, but because the Federal Governemnt also has contracts with these networks for services, and cannot have connectivity issues.

Uh... I work for the feds.  I will tell you now....  This is wrong on so many levels.  I have already gotten into this in various threads.  You don't know how weak of an argument is this.

ADC is for software, basically "apps."  It does not necessaritly include firmware, although I won't go so far as to say it "doesn't."  Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, they all have "network specific" apps that they want installed on our devices, and these apps are also being tested by the carriers to ensure they work on the device with the new software.  For example, since the "My Verizon" app includes access to my account, Verizon tests this app for security issues to ensure any "firmware" (hardware changes) doesn't allow the app to transmit account information via bluetooth, wifi, etc.

That's what ADC is about and I told you.  Apple puts carriers into ADC for MyVerizon, MyAccount(T-Mobile) and such has to go through their process.  They can test their apps on their current beta.  HTC and Motorola essentially does the same thing if the developer wish and join their respective beta programs.

HTC has shown being transparent of their update process.  HTC gets these "apps" or bloatware in advance, and you can see Carriers don't touch code at all and only test the update against the network.  The regulatory, and Google even test the code.  HTC also beta test their code.  They can deliver an update with 90 days of releases.  So how can HTC do it and Nokia can't.  Before saying M8 exclusive sales motivating.  Why did Verizon not withhold updates for some of their devices recently when they flashy new devices were going out from HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung?  Wouldn't it be great for them to relock people into new contracts?  Why only windows phone when it has less than 3% when you can do that to Samsung or LG which has a larger market share?

[rednibkram]

Tidbits wrote:

rednibkram wrote:

You are going off tangent here.  Your arguments are falling apart.  First you said they need Verizon for pretesting.  HTC and Motorola proves it doesn't need Verizon.  I beta tested the M8(WP), and I am beta testing another device on Verizon from HTC(No idea branding and model number).  This pretesting is happening with Verizon...  Now you are changing your argument because you know this is true.  Now you jump back to the update near the end of the process over pretesting.  HTC and Motorola PROVES you don't need pretesting.

I think you should re-read my statement.  I did not say Verizon pretests the "SOFTWARE"  I said Verizon demands pretesting of the "FIRMWARE"  There is a difference between software and firmware.  Software is the OS and the apps associated with the OS.  Firmware controls the actual hardware of the device.  This is at the admission of Verizon.  It is NOT a guess from me.  Debate it with them.

And again, in regards to ADC, you are confusing software updates with firmware updates.  In the case of Verizon, Verizon Corporate has already confirmed with me that ANY firmware update MUST be tested by Verizon to ensure the changes do not create problems on their network.  Apple, HTC, Motorola, Microsoft Mobile OY (formerly Nokia), Samsung, Google etc. can upgrade/update/manipulate their software as much as they want to and can push it out to their devices for developer testing at any time.  The carriers don't really care, but (as in the case with Microsoft) will warn you that it will "void your warranty".  Downloading software from the manufacturer that has not yet been approved by Verizon is "at your own risk."

Oh no I am not confusing it.  I have been on ADC since the iPhone 3G.  You watch the change logs and you'll see which devices are finished and which are not.  At times you'll see a 3 month gap between devices.  Apple just waits to deliver their updates.  HTC replaces devices they break with their update.  You are doing them a favor, and guess what... Like I said earlier...  Nokia would rather carriers pay for it instead of themselves like Motorola and HTC have done.

I have no dispute over this as, like I said above, it regards SOFTWARE, not FIRMWARE.

However, if there are any firmware changes (as firmware affects hardware on the device), all of the carriers DEMAND that they first be allowed to test the firmware changes on their network BEFORE they will allow it to be released to our devices.  They do this to ensure it does not create any negative impacts to the network.  This is required, not only for us customer, but because the Federal Governemnt also has contracts with these networks for services, and cannot have connectivity issues.

Uh... I work for the feds.  I will tell you now....  This is wrong on so many levels.  I have already gotten into this in various threads.  You don't know how weak of an argument is this.

Great statement, now prove it!   In what way is this wrong and prove it.

ADC is for software, basically "apps."  It does not necessaritly include firmware, although I won't go so far as to say it "doesn't."  Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, they all have "network specific" apps that they want installed on our devices, and these apps are also being tested by the carriers to ensure they work on the device with the new software.  For example, since the "My Verizon" app includes access to my account, Verizon tests this app for security issues to ensure any "firmware" (hardware changes) doesn't allow the app to transmit account information via bluetooth, wifi, etc.

That's what ADC is about and I told you.  Apple puts carriers into ADC for MyVerizon, MyAccount(T-Mobile) and such has to go through their process.  They can test their apps on their current beta.  HTC and Motorola essentially does the same thing if the developer wish and join their respective beta programs.

HTC has shown being transparent of their update process.  HTC gets these "apps" or bloatware in advance, and you can see Carriers don't touch code at all and only test the update against the network.  The regulatory, and Google even test the code.  HTC also beta test their code.  They can deliver an update with 90 days of releases.  So how can HTC do it and Nokia can't.  Before saying M8 exclusive sales motivating.  Why did Verizon not withhold updates for some of their devices recently when they flashy new devices were going out from HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung?  Wouldn't it be great for them to relock people into new contracts?  Why only windows phone when it has less than 3% when you can do that to Samsung or LG which has a larger market share?

You and I and everyone else can speculate the reasoning behind the delay and I wouldn't want to make that assumption, but if Verizon would provide feedback to it's customers as to the reason for the delay, we customers wouldn't even be having this discussion, now would we?

[Tidbits]

rednibkram wrote:

Tidbits wrote:

rednibkram wrote:

I think you should re-read my statement.  I did not say Verizon pretests the "SOFTWARE"  I said Verizon demands pretesting of the "FIRMWARE"  There is a difference between software and firmware.  Software is the OS and the apps associated with the OS.  Firmware controls the actual hardware of the device.  This is at the admission of Verizon.  It is NOT a guess from me.  Debate it with them.

Again you going off tangent.  Intially you are going about getting Verizon to "pretest" and was adimant Verizon should do it.  I have shown Verizon doesn't need to so you change your argument to something else.  HTC and Motorola has shown they don't need Verizon to pretest a thing.

I have no dispute over this as, like I said above, it regards SOFTWARE, not FIRMWARE.

It actually regards Firmware.  You can download and use their firmware, and you can see when a device is finished and when it isn't.  Apple change logs are pretty specific you can see if they are for the iPod, iPad, iPhone.  Which connection type as well.  iPods and iPad Wifi are always finished first and you can see that in the change logs.  Just try it and that $99 will probably be eye opening.

Great statement, now prove it!  In what way is this wrong and prove it.

FCC tests to make sure things don't interfere with each other.  Not make sure carrier services work out 100% for them...  No service can be perfect everywhere and indoor testing will not work because it just a singular location...  When we test JTOC we go everywhere and anywhere around the world.  That's a system we always need working.  Nice try through... 

You and I and everyone else can speculate the reasoning behind the delay and I wouldn't want to make that assumption, but if Verizon would provide feedback to it's customers as to the reason for the delay, we customers wouldn't even be having this discussion, now would we?

Nokia will NEVER tell you if their software failed at any point in time.  They don't even tell you exactly where and what their process is.  HTC and Motorola are transparent, and so is Apple(by looking at their change log).  If you notice about the companies with update problems their update process and where they are in the update?  They know especially here in the states we love to blame the carriers for everything.  Europe thinks differently... So how are they liking the update and you are not?  Pretty good evidence they are doing something right? right?

[Tidbits]

One more thing.... If the update were ready and finished................... Wait....... Why in the world is MS releasing new firmware and software? Just saying like i said before. Verizon isn't delaying a thing if it isn't finished.

Straight from Microsoft themselves

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wpdp-wpupdate/cyan-for-dev-preview/213ae7d5-9c1c-4218-807d-59490bd054c3?page=7&tm=1411415754988

[rednibkram]

Perhaps you didn't read that web page correctly.  That topic refers to Developer Preview users, NOT Windows Phone 8.0 users.  There was an issue with the DP release a while back where a very, select few users phones were bricked due to an issue with BitLocker.  Because of this, Microsoft disabled the Cyan update for phones with the WP8.1 DP installed.  This announcement referrs to those individuals who have WP8.1 DP installed.  It has NOTHING to do with Verizon not releasing Cyan for WP 8.0 users. 

[rednibkram]

Tidbits wrote:

rednibkram wrote:

Tidbits wrote:

rednibkram wrote:

I think you should re-read my statement.  I did not say Verizon pretests the "SOFTWARE"  I said Verizon demands pretesting of the "FIRMWARE"  There is a difference between software and firmware.  Software is the OS and the apps associated with the OS.  Firmware controls the actual hardware of the device.  This is at the admission of Verizon.  It is NOT a guess from me.  Debate it with them.

Again you going off tangent.  Intially you are going about getting Verizon to "pretest" and was adimant Verizon should do it.  I have shown Verizon doesn't need to so you change your argument to something else.  HTC and Motorola has shown they don't need Verizon to pretest a thing.

Again, you don't read very well.  I was adimant about Verizon pre-testing the FIRMWARE, NOT SOFTWARE.  I clearly stated that must pretest the firmware.  What HTC and Motorola released is SOFTWARE, not FIRMWARE.  Verizon REQUIRES, and you can ask them for yourself if you don't want to believe me, that all FIRMWARE be tested by Verizon to ensure there are no network issues.  No tangent here, stating FACTS!

I have no dispute over this as, like I said above, it regards SOFTWARE, not FIRMWARE.

It actually regards Firmware.  You can download and use their firmware, and you can see when a device is finished and when it isn't.  Apple change logs are pretty specific you can see if they are for the iPod, iPad, iPhone.  Which connection type as well.  iPods and iPad Wifi are always finished first and you can see that in the change logs.  Just try it and that $99 will probably be eye opening.

Again, this is Apple, they have had way more negotiating power regarding their updates process than any other manufacturer.  You CAN'T compare their update process to other manufacturers because Apple was given much greater leniency.  This is part of the issue we are complaining about. 

Great statement, now prove it!  In what way is this wrong and prove it.

FCC tests to make sure things don't interfere with each other.  Not make sure carrier services work out 100% for them...  No service can be perfect everywhere and indoor testing will not work because it just a singular location...  When we test JTOC we go everywhere and anywhere around the world.  That's a system we always need working.  Nice try through... 

You and I and everyone else can speculate the reasoning behind the delay and I wouldn't want to make that assumption, but if Verizon would provide feedback to it's customers as to the reason for the delay, we customers wouldn't even be having this discussion, now would we?

Nokia will NEVER tell you if their software failed at any point in time.  They don't even tell you exactly where and what their process is.  HTC and Motorola are transparent, and so is Apple(by looking at their change log).  If you notice about the companies with update problems their update process and where they are in the update?  They know especially here in the states we love to blame the carriers for everything.  Europe thinks differently... So how are they liking the update and you are not?  Pretty good evidence they are doing something right? right?

First, I never said anything about Nokia providing information.  I stated that if "Verizon would provide feedback..."  That includes pointing the finger at the manufacturer if a delay is not Verizon's fault.  If Verizon says nothing, how are we to know that it is not Verizon's fault.  If Verizon stated, "It's Microsoft's fault," we would leave these forums and be on Microsoft's forums hounding them. 

Also, I have no complaint that Europe is doing it right, but if that is the correct way of doing things, why doesn't the U.S. Carriers band together and force the manufacturers to follow suit?  Why continue to put up with what is currently happening?  So, they have no one to blame for this but themselves.

[B33]

Tidbits this is what i read from our Local News just thought I'd add it here..

iOS 8 "h8"? Complaints over Apple's new operating system

[#13]

Ha ha funny these articles mirror the different help sites in regards to this ios 8 update.

I had loads of issues, but took my time and figured out what to do. It now works great on all i Devices.

The latest one to crop up this morning was my photos were multiplying from all my idevices. My cell phone was showing thousands of them over and over. I fixed it via connection to iTunes and removing them.

The settings for photo sharing and stream were evidently set to on. Crazy how everything was set to on that was off before. But I did not call Verizon I fixed it myself.

[B33]

Yea I seen this Article and shook my Head, I seen the Latest Verizon commercial were the guy sees the new i6, Siri starts talking to her owner he's going to trade in his phone she thinks there going for a Ride he gets to the store & shuts her off then goes inside to Trade in his i5 for a new i6 it kind of Cute..

iPhone 6 Trade in | Commercial | Verizon Wireless - YouTube