Is Verizon Wireless trying ot Annihilate Windows?

[vzwenduser]

To substantiate the idea that Verizon Wireless (VZW) is trying to Annihilate Windows:

1. At&t has shown the capability that Windows Phones (WP) can be updated by a Wireless carrier. Also, it appears At&t sees that Windows provides a lot more options and At&t is being the most innovative: “AT&T First to Deliver Microsoft Windows Phone 8.1 for Nokia Lumia 820 and Nokia Lumia 920 Devices”: http://blogs.att.net/consumerblog/story/a7796014
   1. What a shame for VZW. At&t is delivering WP 8.1 to even older devices than the Lumia Icon (929). Also, their Lumia 930, which is an exact replica of the Lumia Icon (929) just available in more colors, already has WP 8.1.
2. When speaking to VZW phone sales representatives they also tried to steer me away from the WP in extreme ways such as saying they would not even touch a WP.
   1. If they would have touched a WP they would have loved a WP.
3. When speaking to VZW in-store sales representatives they tried to steer me away from the WP.
   1. Something about not having a big app market…well if you steer everyone away from the WP, developers will think there is not a market for it. So if you are a VZW representative stop steering people away from WP. Although, if VZW reps would have investigated further, apps the majority of users use are already available in the Windows store (everything a person needs is free and some of the apps that are made by the same company are better looking on the WP; professional review sites have stated this fact). Sooner or later you are going to see/hear on all media formats: “download our app at the Microsoft Windows Store, the Google Play Store, and the Apple App Store.
   2. The Lumia Icon is better than the iPhone 6 in every way (don’t tell me the iPhone 6 looks better either…you are going to put a case over your phone anyway) but the Lumia line of phones, especially the Lumia Icon, are no slouch in the design department. Even more, the regular iPhone 6 4.7” and Galaxy S5’s camera doesn’t have optical image stabilization, just digital image stabilization which is still blurry at best. Furthermore the Lumia Icon has a 20mp camera that takes absolutely beautiful photos, even up close macro photos. The iPhone6 only has 8mp and the Galaxy still falls short at 16mp. But this is a post in the WP forum so I am probably preaching to choir. Hopefully VZW is listing though. Maybe I should find all the corporate execs emails and snail mail addresses and send them this post for good measure.

I am not sure if either VZW is incompetent when it comes to working with the WP operating system, if VZW rather there be less operating systems available so that they do not have to do as much work in providing updates by only offering say Android or iOS updates, if VZW thinks they will make more money by preparing for the iPhone 6 and Galaxy Note 4/Edge and putting the (superior ) Windows 8.1 on the back burner, or if there is a legitimate reason for the Windows 8.1 hold up. None of these reasons really make any sense though because all legitimate reasons have been debunked. Microsoft is doing an excellent job producing relevant and useful updates to WP as well as making their ecosystem worth abandoning Android and iOS and jumping all in for Windows.

So if VZW really wants to make some money while pleasing their customers they should update all Windows Phones to WP 8.1 and put the Lumia Icon (929) right next to the iPhone 6 and Galaxy S5/note 4 on the VZW home page so users can find for themselves that they love WP. <-- Marketing is key...or is Apple paying Verizon to list their products higher up in the home page like a manufacture pays stores to put their product at a buyers eye level.

This page is not helpful --> Advanced Devices - Software Updates | Verizon Wireless

This page is not helpful --> Availability in North America - Nokia

This page adds salt to the wounds --> http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/features

What do you think? Is Verizon Wireless trying to Annihilate Windows?

[#2]

What you are leaving out is

1- Android devices have the market share at around 75%

2- Apple iOS has around 15% of market share +/-

Microsoft windows phones have lost share not gained.

It may just be many folks don't see a Windows phone as a money maker for the cell companies.

If you think about it Androids are still being updated and one minor correction is iOS devices are updated from Apple and not Verizon.

If an update is coming you will get it eventually. No amount of complaining is going to get it out faster.

Good Luck

[vzwenduser]

Elector,

I did not leave out that other OSs have more market share; that was implied in my statement:

Something about not having a big app market…well if you steer everyone away from the WP, developers will think there is not a market for it. So if you are a VZW representative stop steering people away from WP

For your quote below, refer to my quote above:

Microsoft windows phones have lost share not gained.

VZW can make money off whatever they market, so the following quote seems baseless:

It may just be many folks don't see a Windows phone as a money maker for the cell companies.

Verizon is shooting themselves in the foot by not updating WPs because it would make WPs even more profitable to them. It doesn't matter who they are updated by, the wait time should not be this long.

If an update is coming you will get it eventually. No amount of complaining is going to get it out faster.

Your wrong. When many users are complaining to a company, more times than not, those complaints produce results. I think I checked the views on some previous threads about the 8.1 update and the views of those threads are in the thousands. Thousands of unhappy customers equals a mass exodus of customers (even if the exodus happens at the end of a person's contract). A mass exodus multiplied by the cost of contract plans equals millions of dollars lost.

After skimming over some other threads you posted in it appears you come to the WP forum to upset WP users, (I assume your a Apple or Android fanboy/fangirl?), so I thought I might get a reply from you. It appears you like to fuss with WP users and that you think that customers should be pleased living off bread crumbs while paying top dollar for service. It also doesn't look like you can be swayed so this reply may have been futile.

P.S. I don't believe luck.

Thanks,

vzw enduser

[#4]

Good morning,

First I don't care about the app stores. Yes if I touch on it then it is a documented fact since Windows Phones are lagging behind it goes to reason that is why there are not as many Apps for windows phones versus the leaders being Google Android and Apple iOS. I try to use common sense. Not just disagree to get into a Frey.

Nice try although thinking you cannot sway me. If you use facts and non crystal ball mentality then your logical argument would leave a pont to ponder in all these WP rants.

I write solely on the rights of customers and their false sense of entitlement in regards to any update.

The devices at time of purchase functioned as made, they function now, so demanding a quick update or any update at all is simply crazy.

I own a couple iPhone 5s and 3 iPads/iPad minis. But I also have Android phone in our home and I use a Nexus tablet so I am not a fan boy of any of these OS's I also have 4 computers that use Windows 8.1 and a iMac so you are way off on your analogy.

You are paying for a connection to the cellular and data network with your supplied working device that is it.

It is not contingent on the cell carriers updating your device. Any device. Since Apple provides their own that is not even an issue.

In your reply you seem to hold that all these windows phones equal huge money for the carriers. Please let me snap you back into reality, the number of window phones on Verizon and other carriers combined is so low it will probably end up like that new Amazon phone I think its called the "Fire" which can be had on AT&T for a $1

I also don't live on this forum and sorry I cannot be on it 24 hours to reply to you and others. I have a life outside of the Verizon forum. But when folks are civil I reply and you were civil.

And as you eluded to my posting history please note I don't spend my life having to write sense to windows users misconceptions over and over. I do get to other areas to assist other customers.

I give and take a firm stance that if and when Verizon or any carrier decides to release any updates it is done on their own good time. And if it never goes out then no big deal. My devices were not purchased to sit here and complain about "Where is my update"? " Give it to me now or I am leaving ".

More like taking care of spoiled children.

And I don't care if you believe in luck or not. Its just the way I sign off. Maybe I will find another closing line.

" Glad I could assist".....

[Tidbits]

There's multiple threads on this.  I have explained some of the process more than once...

It should be a NO BRAINER GSM devices get updated first.  CDMA devices have a different process to begin with and requires Qualcomm approval, and signed keys.  Without it CDMA will not work.

Also Like with ANY large firm they don't have the whole team working on a single update.  Different people different speeds.  Possibly AT&T bought more Windows Phones devices and the reason why Nokia put their "best" developers on AT&T projects(The company I work for does this as well).

Also name one company that isn't going to push their best sellers?  In one day the products you mentioned outsold Nokia's whole lineup worldwide.  Name one company that wouldn't push that as it would be an easy sell.

Also multiple times manufacturers have said that carriers don't touch code only test the code on their network for network security and connectivity.  Manufacturers get the bloatware in advanced, AND they give a list of options that carriers can choose from.  If manufacturers had a hard time...  They could do what Apple does and give no options...  Seems to be working out for Apple right?

[vzwenduser]

Tidbits,

Who are you working for? The customer or the Verizon? To name a company: a company that cares about the long term. Apple is riding off the success of yesteryears.

Thanks,

vzwenduser

[Tidbits]

I used to work for Qualcomm many moons ago and currently I work for a software firm that deals with the USM among other things I am not liberty to say.

[Tidbits]

Yet Apple has a surmountable lead on Windows phones. Their market shares are both declining. At their current paces WP will be phased out sooner than Apple.

Personally I like Windows phone, don't have animosity towards iOS or Android, but I don't hold a fanboy sparkling coolaid mentality towards anything. I hold no loyalty to a single brand. They'll have to WORK to keep me.

I deal with the FCC often at my job. I get to cut in line whenever I do and at times it takes them a while to approve what we do. Phones are no different and goes through the same process we put out technology into.

[vzwenduser]

Tidbits,

I don't think Microsoft is headed down hill. First, Microsoft is not going down without a fight. Second, once people start seeing a few Windows Phone users with their nice phones that have features, and beautiful features might I add, that people actually use and like to use, there going to flock over to Microsoft. The pendulum will swing sooner or later.

I am not biased towards any operating system either. I used to use Android and I don't mind iOS but concerning iOS people do not like to be locked down without out being able to personalize their phone. Just look at how the Ford motor company took off, people were adding things to their Model T to make it unique. People also took the wheel off to use their Model T for work or more than just driving down the road.

I can tell when something really is worth jumping on board with and currently Windows definitely nails it.

Now VZW, where is the 8.1 update?

[Tidbits]

vzwenduser wrote:

Tidbits,

I don't think Microsoft is headed down hill. First, Microsoft is not going down without a fight. Second, once people start seeing a few Windows Phone users with their nice phones that have features, and beautiful features might I add, that people actually use and like to use, there going to flock over to Microsoft. The pendulum will swing sooner or later.

Apple can't do that?  Sorry, but seriously... If you say Apple is on the decline and will be eaten by MS based on the past 3 years it doesn't look that way.  Sales for the iPhone 5S is still leaps and bounds to all windows phones combined.  It isn't happening any time soon.

I am not biased towards any operating system either. I used to use Android and I don't mind iOS but concerning iOS people do not like to be locked down without out being able to personalize their phone. Just look at how the Ford motor company took off, people were adding things to their Model T to make it unique. People also took the wheel off to use their Model T for work or more than just driving down the road.

Sorry you are biased.  Looking at your replies towards Apple shows that you are biased.  If you want to customize your phone Windows Phone and iOS are the worst ones to purchase.  Ford did great because of their marketing.  There were doing nothing really all that special.  Marketing wins....  two top players in the mobile world are Samsung and Apple.  What are they good at?  Marketing.

I can tell when something really is worth jumping on board with and currently Windows definitely nails it.

Fanboyish response here.  There's a lot to be desired from Windows Phone.  Much like Android and iOS.  No OS will nail everything for everyone.  To push a product that you adore is biased opinion.

Now VZW, where is the 8.1 update?

Where's proof that Nokia is finished? It passed all the testing.  Just because it's on other devices doesn't make it "done".  Phones are not like personal computers in that regards.  PC's are built modular and can change.  Because of this OS's have to be modular.  Also it has a lot of space and legacy support.  Just because something has similar parts on a phone doesn't mean they run the same way.  Case and point Cyanogenmod on various devices.  They have many maintainers, and a lot of these devices have similar specs.  Why do they have so many maintainers?  Each device is different enough to need them as certain things don't work without certain code from the manufacturer because of they way they made the logic board .  Unlike Nvidia for example forces manufacturers to make their video cards to a certain standard to make sure their drivers work.  Without a standardized design phones will never be able to achieve modulation.  Maybe Project Ara will change this which is an interesting open source project(anyone can use).

[vzwenduser]

Tidbits,

I did not say any operating system was going to be "eaten" as you call it. I'm saying that Microsoft will take a significant chunk of the market share. After taking this chunk of the market, the share will be more balanced between Windows, Android, and iOS. Refer to my original post and you will see I reference all three app stores showing who the heavy hitters will be in no specific order.

Speaking of "fanboyish" what is interesting is that you brought up Apple instantly, are you biased towards apple? Again I am not biased. I am calling the few comments I made about iOS and iPhone like I see it. Those comments can be summed up as: At the "moment" (keyword = moment) Apple really is not doing anything earth shattering with the iPhone 6 that other manufactures have not already accomplished or met. And don't bring up 64 bit, because Galaxy sales are doing pretty well right now without the 64 bit cpu.

Marketing plays a role but marketing did not do it for Ford. The reason Ford did so well was Ford's approach to the assembly line that made the Model T affordable as well as the fact that a gasoline powered engine offered more benefits than steam engines and went further distances than electric. I think Windows falls in that same vein with the excellent ecosystem they are offering.

I don't agree with your argument that even speculates that Nokia would not be finished testing yet. First to quote Nokia's site: "Under testing = undergoing final testing with Microsoft, country or operator to achieve approval." Secondly, Microsoft/Nokia wants this update in the hands of consumers because they believe this update will win over consumers. So Microsoft is going to work as quickly as possible to get this update into the hands of consumers. The only feasible reason for this hold up is that Verizon has something to gain or lose by releasing the OS. Whether or not Verizon is the one doing the development or contacting Microsoft requesting for changes to fit Verizon's standards, it is still Verizon holding up the update.

Nice plug for Project Ara but I have seen that idea before. The problem with that concept is two-fold: changes to the exoskeleton will undoubtedly occur with better technology but all your old parts wont fit the new shape of the new exoskeleton. Secondly, you can make something with a smaller form factor by designing hardware to fit more tightly when new technology comes out. May we get back on topic of is Verizon Wireless trying to Annihilate Windows?

Thanks,

vzw enduser

[Tidbits]

I guess you weren't around when PCs first came to be... Project Ara fixes problems much like when computers first cane out without standards. I guess you'd have to be around to understand it.

Marketing as a much larger role than you believe or want to believe. If Ford didn't market so well it wouldn't have mattered. Samsung marketing power helped Android. MS doesn't have a big player willing to market it.

Have fun with the rest... You are saying the exact same thing for windows phones what Android users were saying about iOS. It didn't take Android 3 years to get a chunk of the market share. If MS doest get 15% by next year they'll never get anything more than 8%. I am willing to bet money on this.

[vzwenduser]

Tidbit,

You are not privy to some special knowledge of computers. I understand very well. Project Ara might do well, who knows. But one thing is for sure, that exoskeleton will require a change sooner or later and then your modules will not work with the new exoskeleton. It may do well in in circles where people like to mod their computers, so I won't discount its legitimacy completely. Its a neat interesting and neat idea for sure.

There are multiple articles by reputable source on the internet on how Samsung spent millions of dollars on ads which didn't put a dent in the market. What won galaxy customers over was features for the price and herd mentality.

Tidbits, your last comment makes me wonder do you currently own a late model windows phone such as the Nokia Icon? Go all in on the Microsoft ecosystem for a few weeks I really think you would change your tune on what Microsoft is capable of.

kburgoyne,

I at first I didn't know that the radio was in plain view under "Music+Videos>>collection>>radio" because many apps have been calling referring to streaming music as radio. I have grow accustom to thinking radio means something like Spotify Radio feature or Pandora Radio. So when I saw radio under collection I assumed that it was a similar service by Microsoft. So I went searching the internet and found that was the "FM" radio and the same post that I found that information in also said you needed headphones. From some short research I did, it appears a lot of phones use headphones as the antenna as well.

Thanks,

vzw enduser

[Tidbits]

It's not privy knowledge... This stuff anyone should learn about if they took ICS 100 freshman year in college.  Back when computers were initially made there was no specific standard.  You buy a single part you couldn't use it on another computer because it wasn't made for that specific computer.  Then standards came along and things were streamlined, and now you can buy a card it works because of these standards.  It's not about doing well... It's about establishing standards for the long run.  Project Ara is a starting point for this goal so pass or fail doesn't matter.  Standards failed in computing all the time.  Zip disks vs. CDROMs are an example of one succeeding and one failing. A more recent one.  Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD.  Establish standards for the future my friend.

Show these articles that said the millions they spent didn't put a dent in it?  I would like to see them.  I bet the editors who wrote them made their opinion and some of them probably never owned a business themselves(Happens often) let alone know any marketing.  That marketing the value over the iPhone is what pushed their sales...  You and those articles got caught up in the marketing...  It's one of the oldest marketing tools called comparisons.  Regardless if you are going to use them or not.

Yes I own a 520/521/1520/810/M8.  I also own iPhones, and Android devices.  So before telling me to go on their ecosystem I am already there and spent already at least $65 into their market for applications.  I use my 1520 and M8 for a long while now.  I know what windows phones are about and like I said I like the platform.  I am not going to go gaga over it and defend the platform, and have tinfoil ideas about another company that has nothing to do with the platform sabotaging...  I understand how the software/firmware side works as I have worked in the field for a long time.  If no one wants to believe it that's fine.

Europe is doing something right...  Maybe we Americans should use what they use to get what they want.  They get more updates, and more often.  They don't have the FCC testing every time they touch the firmware, and don't use CDMA(Verizon will soon no longer use CDMA when VoLTE hits all their markets).  We blame carriers and believe things like you believe while Europeans blame manufacturers.  If you bring up contracts for devices...  Europeans do the same.

[vzwenduser]

Tidbits,

I don't have a problem with standards, I welcome them. You presumed you knew more than me with your comment. That is why I said you are not privy to some special knowledge.

I guess you weren't around when PCs first came to be... Project Ara fixes problems much like when computers first cane out without standards. I guess you'd have to be around to understand it.

We do not know what level of CS each other has taken so it is not right to presume the CS you learned is better than someone else's. I welcome your thoughts, we can all learn from one another.

I was able to find the article that I read back in 2013: Samsung's marketing splurge doesn't always bring bang-for-buck| Reuters . Don't get me wrong, marketing plays a role, I have previously referred to that when I said "marketing is key" at the end of my first post. But that it is not the only reason why many people flock to a new OS. The truth is that there are multiple factors.

You have a lot phones. Tinfoil ideas, well admittedly it does sound sort of conspiracy theory, but it could be the case that Verizon may make more money with less platforms. Since you worked in the field a long time, do you have any connections you can call to find at what point they are at in their testing?

Its funny you mention CDMA, not to mock what your saying, but I have literally heard people in the field say what you said, that CDMA will in the future not be used. I actually heard that many many moons ago. Finally it will be a reality in 2021. Complain to whomever you want to complain to, if we complain to the carrier then the carrier can put heat under the manufacture for us and vice versa.

So is our 8.1 update here yet?

[Tidbits]

Wouldn't it be better to do what works? For the past 6 years we've complained to the carriers thrown lawsuits at carriers, conplained to the FCC, and carriers done nothing and won everything against them. However Europe gets more updates and more often when targeting those who actually makes the devices. Who seems to be leveraging the right people? At this point I want to try what Europeans have been doing. It affected Nokia, HTC, and Motorola. All 3 of those companies were hurt hard by European sales. Look how fast can Motorola and HTC update their devices compared to previously?

My 1520 and 520 got the update the rest of them didn't(M8 doesn't count). Ironically Cortana hasn't worked for me and causes battery issues much like Siri and Google Now did to me when they first came out. It'll work out.

That article has got it wrong. Let's look at One Plus for example of a great product but bad marketing. They lost millions of sales due to their choices and marketing. Price and great product much better than the Galaxy S. Had great marketing hype initially.

[kburgoyne]

MS Store team answered part of the issue with Verizon.  The basic functionality of the Windows Phone OS supports features that Verizon doesn't want supported, and Apple's OS doesn't support.  (Don't know about Android.)

One example is some Windows Phones support FM radio, and Verizon doesn't want that feature on their phones.  So Windows Phone OS for Verizon models have be to "special" with some of the features stripped out / disabled.  This requires a separate release path prior to Verizon doing their unique testing.

While I generally think Verizon is great, they do have these types of issues pop up regularly.  They try to control stuff that ultimately they aren't going to be able to control in the long run.  So for example, they're hoping that "radio" listening flows through their services.  Therefore they don't want the phones to receive FM radio directly.  Of course there is too much in the way of competitive forces from other areas of the market for Verizon to be able to control such a feature indefinitely.  As a result, they just create an annoyance in the interim until they finally give up trying to control it.

[vzwenduser]

kburgoyne you make a good point but my Lumia Icon came stock with an FM radio that I have used. Although I do use Spotify more the FM radio is a nice feature when your not near a cell tower.

[kburgoyne]

Well gosh darn dang if you ain't right, vzwenduser.  I have an Icon as well.  LOVE the phone.  I remember clearly there was some reason I was lead to understand the FM radio didn't work on the Icon. But of course, I don't clearly remember what that was.  Maybe it was because it doesn't lock on my preferred station -- which is completely understandable because it's a somewhat weak station in my area.  If I rigged up a bigger antenna, it would probably get it.

You're right though, it does work.  I had to go find a pair of wired headphones (what are THOSE?!?!) to plug in as the antenna to make the test.

So I'll confess, the MS Store discussion about FM doesn't apply to the Icon.  Maybe it did to other Verizon models.  I'm not sure we were discussing the Icon specifically when I was talking to the MS Store people.

We do know Verizon told Apple to go take a walk with the original iPhone before Apple went to AT&T.  Verizon didn't like how Apple's business model related to Verizon's business model.

[primortal]

kburgoyne wrote:

MS Store team answered part of the issue with Verizon.  The basic functionality of the Windows Phone OS supports features that Verizon doesn't want supported, and Apple's OS doesn't support.  (Don't know about Android.)

One example is some Windows Phones support FM radio, and Verizon doesn't want that feature on their phones.  So Windows Phone OS for Verizon models have be to "special" with some of the features stripped out / disabled.  This requires a separate release path prior to Verizon doing their unique testing.

While I generally think Verizon is great, they do have these types of issues pop up regularly.  They try to control stuff that ultimately they aren't going to be able to control in the long run.  So for example, they're hoping that "radio" listening flows through their services.  Therefore they don't want the phones to receive FM radio directly.  Of course there is too much in the way of competitive forces from other areas of the market for Verizon to be able to control such a feature indefinitely.  As a result, they just create an annoyance in the interim until they finally give up trying to control it.

I highly doubt this is it.  VZW page for the Icon has "FM Radio Support" listed under the Music Specs for the phone.

[Gantenbergh]

its funny that that with all this talk about the FM tuner, nobody has mentioned the fact that the Lumia 822 also has it built it, and that the 928 is the only lumia in VZW that does not have that feature. I will admit that I am a windows fanboy, I love the product and I love how stable it is compared to android. I have had 5 Andorid device in the past few years and none of them have been very solid. every one has flaked on me by crashing and that has been from multiple manufactures.... Samsung / Moto / HTC . and Apple I wont even go there with there proprietary monopoly and their limited capabilities, sorry apple u just don't make the cut for my needs. android was ok but not stable and when I switched over to Windows, it was the best day of my phone life, its been solid and a great product. I own all 3 of VZW Lumia devices and they are all amazing pieces of tech. I even dropped my 928 in a creek and it was soaked, but it came back up fully functional without any issues. (that's the power of Nokia baby). I have installed the DP on all my devices and they all work seamlessly, so if the DP works fine then whats wrong with the final release and why is it being held up?

thanks for hearing my short rant. .