LG Terra - "Searching for Service" in NYC subway stations

[BlueRiband]

I have an LG Terra with LTE, purchased in June 2016.  For the past two months I've been unable to get phone service in the NYCTA subway stations.  I have no problem on the street.  This is at ALL the stations including main transfer stations like 59th St/Columbus Circle, Broadway/Lafayette and West 4th St.  Last week I picked up service at 59th St/Columbus Circle only but then yesterday, nothing.  Is there some change in the service or do I need to change my phone settings?

[vzw_customer_support]

We understand the importance of having a working service while traveling on your daily commute. I use my phone all the time so I can understand how much of a hassle it is. With regard to the service issues we can not guarantee service underground or while on the subway due to the signal coming into your device from our towers. We do want to review the device and service concerns to see what can be done for you. To clarify, what exactly do you have issues with? What happens when you make a call, text, or use data service? 

JasperM_VZW
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If my response answered your question please click the �Correct Answer� button under my response. This ensures others can benefit from our conversation. Thanks in advance for your help with this!!

[BlueRiband]

All NYC subway stations have cell phone service form four major carriers including Verizon.  They don't rely on street towers but have transmitters located on the ceiling above the platforms.  When I try to use my phone the screen reads "Searching for Service".  I cannot make or receive calls nor can I get internet in any station, including major transfer stations. 

[vzw_customer_support]

Thank you for the details, BlueRiband. Your feedback is essential, and we are always working to expand and improve the network where possible. There are factors outside of our control that can contribute to poor underground performance even in cases when you have had service in the past in the same location. Some common changes are cell sites, construction, weather, population, and signal interference. I understand that this is not the most ideal of situations, but I hope this at least provides more insight and the clarity that you were looking for.

AkaneM_VZW

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If my response answered your question please click the _Correct Answer_ button under my response. This ensures others can benefit from our conversation. Thanks in advance for your help with this!!

[gsholette]

There is definitely something untoward going on with the Verizon NYC subway service precisely since April of 2018. For a year or more my phone worked fine for both calls and texting in 99% of the stations. Which are now wired for cell service underground btw (its underground, its inside the train stations, its not coming from a tower. The Verizon agent who replied to your concerns might even be AI and never having visiting our great city is ignorant of its realities. But its amazing how they are ignoring this issue). Then this past spring, boom. No service. I called Verizon, I chatted, I even wrote, printed and mailed letters to them by post. Nothing, nada, zip. They refuse to admit they made a change in their NYC underground services. But they did. Its really outrageous and if anyone has a cell company that they can recommend please post it because I am ready to drop Verizon after ten years. I also wonder if this is a matter for the State Attorney General of NY?

[vzw_customer_support]

gsholette, we would never want to see you go and appreciate your 10 years of loyalty to us! Service is important and while things can interfere with it that are out of our control we certainly can see what can be done. Does the phone specifically say no service? What specific locations are you having troubles at? What make and model phone do you have?

Tionna_VZW
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If my response answered your question please click the _Correct Answer_ button under my response. This ensures others can benefit from our conversation. Thanks in advance for your help with this!!

[BlueRiband]

Here are the stations where my LG Terra phone read "Searching for svc."  These are major transfer stations:

• Broadway Lafayette: B, D, F, M platform
• West 4th St: A, C, E platform
• West 4th St: B, D, F, M plaform
• 59th St./Columbus Circle: A, B, C, D platform
• 168th St: A, C platform

I also specifically kept my phone open to check for service at station stops.  No service on A-line 14th Street, 34th St/Penn Station, 42nd St., and 125th street. Nor on the upper end of the at 181st or 190th St.

I just used my LG Terra on a cruise ship and in England and Norway but I cannot use it in NYC subway stations!

I've been a Verizon wireless customer since 1997 (remember the StarTac?) and what annoys me the most is that nobody on the technical staff here has any knowledge of service in the NYC subway system nor can they find somebody who does.  I'm ready to ask riders next to me if they are getting a signal and if so who is their carrier.  Another carrier might give me service down there and at a better price.

[deloused]

You'll need a different phone, the Terra can only access 2G/3G CDMA Verizon signals at 800/1900mhz. That spectrum is being refarmed to 4GLTE which most customers use for the complete CDMA network shutdown set for next year.

[gsholette]

In terms of upgrading and the CDMA network shudown:

1.) Verizon has not acknowledged in any of my correspondence with them (just as BlueBird also indicates) regarding any changes in service whatsoever. That is really unethical.

2.) If anyone finds a service that DOES work in the NYC Subway system stations, please post that.

3.) I did switch to a 4G phone (Kyocera Dura XZ LTE) for a few weeks and found that, yes, it did work in the subway stations (again, Verizon would never admit that they changed the system thus forcing me to "upgrade"), but alas the new phone did not work in my office or my home! Whereas my old 3G flip phone (Casio G'z Ravine) was fine in the office and home. I dumped the Kyocera G4.

4.) This is clearly a serious reduction in service and upsetting enough for me to finally, after months of trying to resolve the issue, deciding to send a letter outlining what Verizon has done to the New York State Attorney General's office for investigation. I recommend others do the same.

[deloused]

It’s actually not a serious reduction in service, it’s an expansion. Verizon is phasing out their CDMA network which only 2% of its customers use (and dwindling) while adding more LTE. 98% of their traffic usage is already LTE and it’s continually increasing.

Contacting an AG is a good idea if you just want to get your complain out there, but it’s not going to resolve the issue you’re experiencing.

No network reaches everywhere unfortunately, and this situation is no different from when wireless carriers shutdown their analog networks, or when AT&T & T-Mobile shutdown their 2G networks, or when landlne/cable companies transition to newer technologies and phase out the old ones.

As technology continues to evolve network/service phase outs & new roll outs will likely continue, for the benefit of the masses.

[BlueRiband]

Wonderful.  Verizon sold me a soon-to-be obsolete phone. 

[gsholette]

I got a reply from the State Attorney General of NY who copied Verizon who then called me and finally someone from Verizon admitted that yes, they had terminated service for the type of flip phone I own. Boom. After five months of chatting, talking, writing to Verizon employees of various types, of trying other types of phones, of being told over and over that there is nothing wrong with the service and it has not changed, the truth is out there. But, will Verizon now make this public ? How many people upgraded (forcibly) to a G4 phone not knowing this information? How many people like me just lost service in the Subway all of a sudden and had no clue why? And is the next step to eliminate G3 service for everyone even outside of the subway system?

Does anyone have an answer? Is there any other service provider that still runs G3 in the Subway Stations?

[deloused]

But, will Verizon now make this public?

*No, not now. They publicly announced this network shutdown over 6 years ago (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.androidauthority.com/verizons-2g-3g-cdma-networks-out-by-2021-12169...)

How many people upgraded (forcibly) to a G4 phone not knowing this information?

*0, unless occurring under duress (like at gunpoint) no one has ever been forced to upgrade to any device.

How many people like me just lost service in the Subway all of a sudden and had no clue why?

*Very few. Less than 2% of their entire customer base uses 3G, and most are in rural areas of the country.

And is the next step to eliminate G3 service for everyone even outside of the subway system? Does anyone have an answer?

*Yes, everywhere and with every carrier.

Is there any other service provider that still runs G3 in the Subway Stations?

*No, all carriers are transitioning to newer technologies to meet demand as most subway wireless riders use devices and apps that require high speeds. TMobile also plans complete shutdown of 3G networks around the same time as Verizon. AT&T stopped certifying new 3G devices over a year ago. Sprint has also been refarming their network to 4G but hasn't provided a full shutdown timeline for 3G

[gsholette]

But, will Verizon now make this public?

*No, not now. They publicly announced this network shutdown over 6 years ago (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.androidauthority.com/verizons-2g-3g-cdma-networks-out-by-2021-12169...)

This is the correct address btw - https://www.androidauthority.com/verizons-2g-3g-cdma-networks-out-by-2021-121694/amp/ and it says “to be phased out by 2021” not starting March 3 2018.

Though I never saw this notice, nor was it sent to me (as a 3G user that Verizon is completely aware of that is inexcusable on its own) to suddenly delete service three years in advance with no other notice is unconscionable.

How many people upgraded (forcibly) to a G4 phone not knowing this information?

*0, unless occurring under duress (like at gunpoint) no one has ever been forced to upgrade to any device.

And you are getting this statistic where?

How many people like me just lost service in the Subway all of a sudden and had no clue why?

*Very few. Less than 2% of their entire customer base uses 3G, and most are in rural areas of the country.

Or perhaps the people on this community list who have had the same issue? And though again your stats are not cited even if it is correct 2% of people who suddenly (yes suddenly and without notice see above) lost service is a lot of people. Maybe your not living in our city but we have 8.5 Million residents and 4.3 million use the subway every day. let’s see, 2% of train riders is over 80 thousand people.

[deloused]

"says “to be phased out by 2021” not starting March 3 2018."

*Network transitions are always gradual, which is why the article states- 'its 2G and 3G CDMA network will be phased out around 2021, though it did point out that these are guidelines. As more and more people move onto the new 4G LTE networks we’ll see more of the old 2G and 3G networks disappearing.' (which is what has been happening currently.)

"How many people upgraded (forcibly) to a G4 phone not knowing this information?

*0, unless occurring under duress (like at gunpoint) no one has ever been forced to upgrade to any device.

And you are getting this statistic where?"

*That's not a statistic, just common sense. Consumers always have choices when upgrading, including the right to turn upgrade offers down. There's never been any reports of carriers forcing any upgrade on someone, by gunpoint, knifepoint, threat, or physically making them sign any agreement.

"How many people like me just lost service in the Subway all of a sudden and had no clue why?

*Very few. Less than 2% of their entire customer base uses 3G, and most are in rural areas of the country.

Or perhaps the people on this community list who have had the same issue?"

*Agreed, 4 people have posted in this community regarding this issue, that's pretty few! It's nothing compared to the number of people who've posted complaining about slow/overloaded 4GLTE in NYC. There are tons of those posts in the community. Spectrum is a finite resource, and it wouldn't make sense for a business to maintain an older, slower, less used technology that far fewer people use when they can refarm it to what the overwhelming majority of customers demand.

"And though again your stats are not cited even if it is correct 2% of people who suddenly (yes suddenly and without notice see above) lost service is a lot of people. Maybe your not living in our city but we have 8.5 Million residents and 4.3 million use the subway every day. let’s see, 2% of train riders is over 80 thousand people."

*That's true that a lot of people are affected by the 3G shutdown, and also wayyy more people are benefited as the spectrum is refarmed to 4G. Whatever the actual numbers are, (using your calculation as an example) it wouldn't make sense to cater service to 80 thousand people at the detriment of 4.3 million. I definitely don't believe the numbers are that high though. Verizon has 15.955% market share in NY. ( Top Mobile Data Providers State-by-State )

*Suppose all 8.5 million residents have a cell phone, with their market share there that would mean up to 1,356,175 of them would be Verizon customers. The majority of residents use and want 4G, as well as travelers. Most international carriers offer 4G devices, very few offer devices capable of using the CDMA 3G network Verizon operates.

[gsholette]

Let's just get back to the main point: a sudden and un-announced shutdown of service for people who have a particular tech that a given company still claims to support (see: CLICK) and sells devices to use is unacceptable, period. You can defend this from a capitalist point of view, or some imagined public service upgrade perspective, but it is still unethical and unfair, especially to customers such as myself who have been with the company for over a decade, and, who when calling Verizon agents after losing service was repeatedly told by about a dozen employees (for the past 5 months) that nothing has changed, and that all networks are operational in NYC. That is obfuscation, plain and simple, not to mention a waste of my time and energy.