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Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
Luckyshot
Member

If you go to Microsoft Lumia 950 Specifications - Microsoft - USA on microsoft.com, it now lists Band 13 (700 MHz) as supported.  This is the band that requires Verizon to allow the phone on it's system per FCC regulations and pending network certification.  We need to start hitting up Verizon and Microsoft to see what's up.

I would point out that if you look at the specs listed at the Microsoft Store webpage, Band 13 is not listed.  Is it a typo?

Current listed frequencies:

  • Cellular connectivity2
    • GSM network: 850 MHz, 900 MHz, 1800 MHz, 1900 MHz
    • GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 236.8 kbps
    • GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 118.4 kbps
    • WCDMA network: Band 1 (2100 MHz), Band 2 (1900 MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850 MHz), Band 8 (900 MHz)
    • WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2 Mbps (Cat 24)
    • WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76 Mbps (Cat 6)
    • LTE FDD network: Band 1 (2100 MHz), Band 2 (1900 MHz), Band 3 (1800 MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 7 (2600 MHz), Band 8 (900MHz), Band 12 (700 MHz), Band 13 (700MHz), Band 20 (800MHz), Band 28 (700 MHz)
    • LTE max data speed DL: 450 Mbps (Cat 9)
    • LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 6)
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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
primortal
Sr. Member

Umm you're forgetting the most important bands, CDMA.  The device is still DOA on VZW network without it.

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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
Luckyshot
Member

Not true.  CDMA is not the most important band(s).  CDMA is a dying technology that Verizon is moving away from.  A phone can connect to the Verizon network using LTE only.  The phone does need to be VoLTE (voice over LTE) capable and support LTE bands 2, 4, and/or 13.  The 950 does appear to support VoLTE and definitely has Band 2 & 4.  Band 13 is the one that is the most important, however.  Per the FCC, any device supporting Band 13 must be allowed on the VZW network if it passes third-party network certification.

Now, it is true there are some CDMA only areas remaining in more rural areas, but Verizon is moving to LTE only and most metro areas are going to be covered by their LTE network.

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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
primortal
Sr. Member

I beg to differ...  I still think it's a requirement till VZW is 100% LTE.

Are there other devices that are on VZW network that doesn't have the CDMA bands?

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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
Luckyshot
Member

Currently, no.  But the HTC One A9 is supposed to be coming to Verizon in the near future and it has no CDMA capabilities.  Until Verizon is nearly 100% LTE only, they won't be pushing for CDMA-less phones but that doesn't mean you must have CDMA.  You won't be able to connect via the entire tower network though.

http://www.htc.com/us/go/htc-one-a9-unlocked/

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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
47seijar
Sr. Member

Verizon still requires the CDMA bands because no carrier - Verizon included - has full coverage with LTE. If Microsoft would unlock the CDMA bands that are available on the 950 the phone could be used on Verizon. But Microsoft won't do that because they never bothered to get certification from the FCC for those bands. Microsoft did the bare minimum with the 950 to get it released in the US. Not Verizon's fault that Microsoft couldn't be bothered to make the 950 a priority rather than a placeholder for the upcoming Surface Phone.

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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
Luckyshot
Member

1) Verizon can't require the CDMA bands.  The FCC regulations state that they have to allow any device that supports Band 13 as long as it doesn't disrupt Verizon's network.  It is a requirement of Verizon's lease of that frequency band.  Disruption would be something like the phone's software causes the tower authentication firmware to lockup blocking other customers from using the same tower or anything of that sort.  The FCC requirement doesn't specify the device must meet any other qualification.  That's all the third party certification tests for, disruption of the network.  That being said, Verizon has no responsibility to any customer that brings their own phone that doesn't support CDMA when they can't connect in non-LTE areas.

2) I never said it was Verizon's fault that the 950 hasn't been certified, it is the manufacturer's responsibility to get that certification.

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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
Tidbits
Sr. Leader

I suggest to bring it up with the FCC and I bet they will do nothing and by the next major device it will be irrelevant and we'd be arguing about the next device.

I also want to add band 12, band 17, band 28 are not block C or rather band 13 which MS own tech specs on their websites show it doesn't have on both the XL and 950.

So it has no:

CDMA(WCDMA is not compatible and 3G for GSM)

Doesn't have EVDO which is 3G for CDMA

Doesn't have band 13 which is needed for block C.

So explain how is Verizon supposed to support a device and let alone allow it on their network when it doesn't comply with any technical standard even block C regulations give liberty to?

Now let's look at block C in context. All manufacturers can get all technical specifications and testing for compliance. If the hardware is there and it passes security checks Verizon must allow it. If the manufacturer has the hardware but doesn't do the technical standards test Verizon has the right to block it. Make sure you read the subsections in context and not cherry-picked sections.

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Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
Luckyshot
Member

Tidbits, it's not our place to file an FCC complaint.  Microsoft is the only one that can do that and only if they pass certification (which I have no reason to believe they have even attempted) and Verizon denies the phone on it's network.

If you look at the page that I posted in the original post (before this got way out of hand) you will see that Microsoft has Band 13 listed as supported.  That was the point of the original post.  Then it descended into an argument as to CDMA being required.  My position is that it isn't required.  Sure, the phone won't work outside of the LTE network but that isn't brought up in the FCC requirements.  Any phone that supports Band 13 and doesn't disrupt the network (passed 3rd party certification) must be allowed on by Verizon.

Everything I stated is true.  I don't even know that it does support Band 13, only that it is listed as supported on ONE Microsoft webpage.

Also, Band 13 isn't required for block C, Band 13 IS block C in the 700 Mhz band.

Just look at this Microsoft page and tell me it's not listed - Microsoft Lumia 950 Specifications - Microsoft - USA

It was just a question as to which spec pages are actually accurate.

Has anyone actually looked at the page in question and willing to discuss the original issue that was posted?

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Re: Re: Microsoft now lists the Verizon LTE band as supported on the 950
Tidbits
Sr. Leader

Luckyshot wrote:

Tidbits, it's not our place to file an FCC complaint.  Microsoft is the only one that can do that and only if they pass certification (which I have no reason to believe they have even attempted) and Verizon denies the phone on it's network.

Yes you can complain the the FCC.  If you couldn't then why does it say potential customers, and also why did the complaints from consumers about tethering were looked into? 

If you look at the page that I posted in the original post (before this got way out of hand) you will see that Microsoft has Band 13 listed as supported.  That was the point of the original post.  Then it descended into an argument as to CDMA being required.  My position is that it isn't required.  Sure, the phone won't work outside of the LTE network but that isn't brought up in the FCC requirements.  Any phone that supports Band 13 and doesn't disrupt the network (passed 3rd party certification) must be allowed on by Verizon.

47 CFR 27.16 - Network access requirements for Block C in the 746-757 and 776-787 MHz bands. | US La...

(d) Access requests.

(1) Licensees shall establish and publish clear and reasonable procedures for parties to seek approval to use devices or applications on the licensees' networks. A licensee must also provide to potential customers notice of the customers' rights to request the attachment of a device or application to the licensee's network, and notice of the licensee's process for customers to make such requests, including the relevant network criteria.

    (2) If a licensee determines that a request for access would violate its technical standards or regulatory requirements, the licensee shall expeditiously provide a written response to the requester specifying the basis for denying access and providing an opportunity for the requester to modify its request to satisfy the licensee's concerns.


One of the requirements which is allowed in this section is technical issue that you need CDMA to do voice, text, and such.  Since that is still required manufacturers much include CDMA radios.  In the future this will change, but right now it is needed, and relevant network criteria.  If you think your device is compatible you can actually put in a request on your own.  It doesn't have to be the manufacturer that does it. I marked it in green.

Everything I stated is true.  I don't even know that it does support Band 13, only that it is listed as supported on ONE Microsoft webpage.

Also, Band 13 isn't required for block C, Band 13 IS block C in the 700 Mhz band.

Just look at this Microsoft page and tell me it's not listed - Microsoft Lumia 950 Specifications - Microsoft - USA

It was just a question as to which spec pages are actually accurate.

Has anyone actually looked at the page in question and willing to discuss the original issue that was posted?

Yes I looked and here are 4 pages that show it doesn't and 2 of them are their sales pages.  1 link vs. 4 links from the same source.  Seems like it's a technical error by MS putting it on their mobile pages, but not on their standard pages.

Microsoft Lumia 950 Specifications - Microsoft - Global

Microsoft Lumia 950 XL Specifications - Microsoft - Global

Buy Microsoft Lumia 950 – Unlocked - Microsoft Store

Buy Microsoft Lumia 950 XL – Unlocked - Microsoft Store

Straight off these pages has Band 12, 17, and 28.  No band 13.

Cellular connectivity2

  • GSM network: 850 MHz, 900 MHz, 1800 MHz, 1900 MHz
  • GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0 kbps
  • GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8 kbps
  • WCDMA network: Band 1 (2100 MHz), Band 2 (1900 MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850 MHz), Band 8 (900 MHz)
  • WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2 Mbps (Cat 24)
  • WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76 Mbps (Cat 6)
  • LTE FDD network: Band 1 (2100 MHz), Band 2 (1900 MHz), Band 3 (1800 MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 7 (2600 MHz), Band 8 (900MHz), Band 12 (700 MHz), Band 17 (700MHz), Band 20 (800MHz), Band 28 (700 MHz)
  • TD-LTE network: Band 38 (2570-2620 MHz), Band 40 (2300-2400 MHz)
  • LTE max data speed DL: 300 Mbps (Cat 6)
  • LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 6)

So in the end it doesn't even support the technical aspects to even work on the network.