want to add something to this.
Also, Band 13 isn't required for block C, Band 13 IS block C in the 700 Mhz band.
Band 13 on a device is required in order to invoke block c protection. make sense now?
"One of the requirements which is allowed in this section is technical issue that you need CDMA to do voice, text, and such. Since that is still required manufacturers much include CDMA radios"
But you don't need CMDA to do voice, text or data on Verizon's LTE network. Verizon's LTE network supports VoLTE (Voice over LTE) so a phone that supports VoLTE (which the 950 and XL appear to do) does not require CDMA for voice. Again, and I have said this several times, even if Band 13 is supported and 3rd party certification did not indicate a disruption to normal service, the phones would only be able to connect to LTE enabled towers. That, in and of itself, probably wouldn't be enough for Verizon to block it as it isn't a disruption to their service. The customer bringing the phone to the network would have to understand the LTE only limitation.
Also, my only real question is if people think that Microsoft is purposely blocking Band 13 support. There is a big difference between can't support and won't support.
And if it fails where does it fall back on? It's required by law that 911 must work all the time and a liability for example.
Also any manufacturer can put any spectrum support on any device they want to. FCC regulates the as well. If MS doesn't put it there then it's not any carriers fault at all. It's actually a violation on regulation for a provider to forcibly on their own force a manufacturer to disable anything. Remember Verizon and Bluetooth? Supreme Court ruled Verizon was in the wrong.
"And if it fails where does it fall back on? It's required by law that 911 must work all the time and a liability for example."
911 calls must be allowed through on any tower the phone can connect to regardless of customer status. If the phone can't connect to the tower, there is no liability. For example, under your argument, if an AT&T GSM only tower was the only tower within my phones range, they would be liable because I couldn't connect using CDMA. The only time there is carrier liability is if they block a 911 call that is technically capable of using their network.
"Also any manufacturer can put any spectrum support on any device they want to. FCC regulates the as well. If MS doesn't put it there then it's not any carriers fault at all. It's actually a violation on regulation for a provider to forcibly on their own force a manufacturer to disable anything. Remember Verizon and Bluetooth? Supreme Court ruled Verizon was in the wrong."
This is a moot point, I have never once blamed Verizon for blocking the phone or even blocking Microsoft from supporting Band 13. I don't know why you are running this around in circles. Read my previous post, I was was wondering if the device isn't capable of supporting Band 13 or if Microsoft won't....Verizon did not enter that sentence at all. I already know Verizon's responsibility in this, they are required to carry it if 1) Band 13 is supported, 2) voice/text/data doesn't require CDMA, 3) AND the device passes 3rd party certification. Of the 3 issues, all of which must be true for Verizon to be at fault, I only know #2 to be absolutely true. I don't know why you keep defending Verizon from an attack that hasn't been made by me.
Luckyshot wrote:
"And if it fails where does it fall back on? It's required by law that 911 must work all the time and a liability for example."
911 calls must be allowed through on any tower the phone can connect to regardless of customer status. If the phone can't connect to the tower, there is no liability. For example, under your argument, if an AT&T GSM only tower was the only tower within my phones range, they would be liable because I couldn't connect using CDMA. The only time there is carrier liability is if they block a 911 call that is technically capable of using their network.
Notice more and more devices are starting to have both CDMA, and GSM radios? So what happens when you are connected to LTE, but the VoLTE portion fails. You have access to the network, but can't place that call... Then what? There is a liability if you are supposed to have VoLTE to make that call, but it fails for whatever reason and it doesn't have a fall back. See T-Mobile with Band 12 where they only use it as VoLTE. They want to test it and ensure it hands off correctly so they won't be liable.
"Also any manufacturer can put any spectrum support on any device they want to. FCC regulates the as well. If MS doesn't put it there then it's not any carriers fault at all. It's actually a violation on regulation for a provider to forcibly on their own force a manufacturer to disable anything. Remember Verizon and Bluetooth? Supreme Court ruled Verizon was in the wrong."
This is a moot point, I have never once blamed Verizon for blocking the phone or even blocking Microsoft from supporting Band 13. I don't know why you are running this around in circles. Read my previous post, I was was wondering if the device isn't capable of supporting Band 13 or if Microsoft won't....Verizon did not enter that sentence at all. I already know Verizon's responsibility in this, they are required to carry it if 1) Band 13 is supported, 2) voice/text/data doesn't require CDMA, 3) AND the device passes 3rd party certification. Of the 3 issues, all of which must be true for Verizon to be at fault, I only know #2 to be absolutely true. I don't know why you keep defending Verizon from an attack that hasn't been made by me.
Again I showed you that it is relevant and the FCC deems it relevant as the reason why the rules were put in place. Unless the FCC is willing to waiver things like E911 liability CDMA as a fall back is going to stay or until Verizon moves all their spectrum over to LTE and nothing but LTE calls can be placed. Also all Verizon connected devices and certified devices can connect to even GSM carriers for 911 calls since LTE was introduced and they purchased block C. That's why people can take their unlocked LTE Verizon devices and use them on whatever carrier they want. Just some food for thought.
I am not defending Verizon I am showing the rules placed by the FCC and calling it down the middle. What you think it irrelevant the FCC actually deems it relevant is all I am saying. I have 2 devices that support band 13 that are imported and yes they work with VoLTE, and I can't get them on Verizon's network. I have been there and done that.
The 950 is capable of supporting everything provided they go through FCC testing and get them approved. The radio itself supports ALL technologies from CDMA to LTE. It's the same radio in the Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P, iPhone 6, iPhone 6S, and quite a handful of devices out there. As long as MS doesn't pay the licensing fees to Qualcomm, and doesn't go through FCC testing it will never support those technologies and spectrum. Similarly to the Nexus 4 where people could use Band 4 LTE on T-Mobile. Google said it wasn't supported and the next update removed the option, and it was never approved by the FCC.
A little information about me. I buy unlocked devices since the point the radios could support all radio techs. The 950 is my last device in a long while where it doesn't support all carriers. If the Surface Phone doesn't support it then the 950 will be my last phone that doesn't support all carriers. I am getting tired of carrying 2 phones when I travel.
I am just giving technical answer. If you think that's defending them and attacking them then I have no idea how to respond. If I respond saying it's all Verizon fault then it means I am not defending them? I just went through this with a beta device and tried to use it on Verizon since it has band 13. These are the answers I got from the FCC and Verizon.
And these devices that support both VoLTE and Band 13 passed the 3rd party certification? FCC testing is a separate matter. The FCC pretty much certifies that it doesn't cause any undue interference across the entire spectrum, the 3rd party certification that is required certifies that the device doesn't disrupt the Verizon network. Sure, the device may have the proper frequencies, but if the software causes issues with the carrier's network, they don't have to let it on.
They didn't even bring up testing. It didn't meet the requirements for testing. It didn't meet the relevant standards prior to testing. I couldn't even request it to be tested due to.it not having CDMA and was explained some of the technical reasons as I posted here.
You don't have to believe me or not, but it is what it is. People will find outdoor enough when more and more devices start having band 13 or become irrelevant when VoLTE is everywhere and the interoperability between carriers (One of the reasons Sprint dropped Wimax) becomes the standard.
One surefire way would be for someone to build their own phone and go through the motion. Maybe try and get the EFF to do it and then explain the process?
Outdoor = out soon
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