NOTE: If Verizon fails to offer the new 950 or 950XL Windows phone, this Fall, you will be loosing me as a customer.
dcpaint
Enthusiast - Level 1

Please let Corporate know that the lack of the new Windows phone this Fall, 950 or 950XL, will signal to me that you are not interested in having the Windows phone user as one of your customers. I expect Verizon Wireless to sale and support the new Windows phone just like you do will all of your Android phone that you love to push in your stores.

If at some time Microsoft decides to stop sell the phone, at that time I'll change to something else. But for now, I will not have Wireless carrier force me to a particular phone. Yes, that decision will send me elsewhere for good.

I hope the Verizon corporation reconsiders their decision on a lack of Windows Phone support.

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72 Replies
mrgreeves
Enthusiast - Level 2

I just hope Microsoft creates an entirely unlocked 950XL that supports all LTE bands and cdma.  The phone doesn't have to be listed in Verizon's system.  You just need an activated sim card to go in it.  I'll buy the phone directly from Microsoft.

Geebox
Contributor - Level 3

Wish that was the case, although Verizon supports LTE, it is for Data. Verizon Phone Cellular System uses CDMA and is a different system from GSM Phone Cellular System which most all other carriers use. One could use the LTE for data only on Verizon and not the phone. Even if Microsoft does make the upcoming phones cdma compatible, VZW could still block both LTE and CDMA so that the phone can't access its network. The 950 & 950xl are reported have LTE for all systems and Only GSM for ATT & T-Mobile.

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SickFreak
Specialist - Level 1

Pardon my ignorance, but what about VoLTE?  While I would expect that it's not available everywhere, wouldn't this resolve the problem if it were?

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Geebox
Contributor - Level 3

Good point. Yes, voLTE is suppose to solve the problem, as most of the carriers are suppose to implement voLTE on their systems. VZW stated they were rolling out voLTE as of last year and suppose to currently have 15 or so devices working now. As i understand it VZW has been having problems totally separating CDMA from the voLTE. (see article below). Hopefully they will have this fixed this year. In any event VZW still controls which devices they allow on their system. It appears IMHO that VZW and Microsoft are not on the best of terms. Lets hope that these and other Windows Phones will work on Verizon.

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/188756-verizons-volte-rollout-will-kill-off-cdma-and-allow-un...

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Tidbits
Legend

It's not that they have problems. It's more or less legacy. A lot of people are still on devices that still rely on CDMA. They can't simply flip a switch and poof. People will lose service and Verizon will have to cover those people devices or let them off contract and go elsewhere. They need to transition people over.

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Geebox
Contributor - Level 3

That may be true, but Verizon themselves states that they are ditching CDMA. It will be a slow rollout, but eventually  they will be using voLTE entirely. How long and how true, who really knows at this point during the rollout. I was referring to current problems by techs I know in VZW as well as in the above article and other sites that state that voLTE is not mainstream yet and that there are a lot of dropped calls/voice.  Verizon was and is using CDMA to help with these dropped packets as it is referred to until  their voLTE is smooth. It appears other carriers are dong the same, but using GSM to help. There is still a lot of technical issues to be resolved. It appears that though they are behind, they are moving toward a good main stream VoLTE system.  My main point was and is; Verizon may not support or allow New Windows Phone on their system, and if that's the case, I will be leaving.

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Tidbits
Legend

With Block C rules it's up to MS to make it work with VoLTE. If they don't it's on MS and not Verizon.

See iPhone 6 and newer (own unlocked. 6S OTW)

See Nexus 6 and future Nexus (owned unlocked)

See Moto X (2015) (purchased)

These devices support block C. The only problem they have is activation but a preactivated sim will never have problems. A good rep will activate the sim for you using a dummy IMEI to get the ball started.

I am waiting to see what MS will do.

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Geebox
Contributor - Level 3

LOL, I bet with Verizon it wont be that easy, I'd be surprised.

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Tidbits
Legend

It's easy. It's not up to Verizon when block C is involved. If they are willing they can do it. The only problem is the activation, but you need a rep that knows how to activate Sims if you need a new sim. I always use Nano Sims and adapters so I don't have to worry about sizes and getting new ones.

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Geebox
Contributor - Level 3

Tidbits, I hope you are right, but it won't be that easy for everyone;

Verizon, Sprint, AT&T and TMobile, the major US carriers all use 4G LTE for cellular data. Verizon and Sprint have and still use CDMA for cellular voice, AT&T and TMobile use GSM. However, as stated, all carriers are moving toward using 4G LTE for everything, voice and data (voice over data-VoLTE).

On supported phones, in 4G LTE coverage areas( areas not covered switch to 3G-CDMA-EVDO), Verizon uses 4G LTE for voice as well as data (howbeit with some problems stated above). That means that an unlocked  4G LTE capable phone could work on the 4G LTE network on Verizon covered areas only. However, that phone would not work on Verizon's CDMA network. The Lumia 950's and other 4G LTE should work on VZW.

However, there's more to it than just 4G LTE vs CDMA. Verizon's activation system doesn't recognize a phone not originally intended for use on their network, it doesn't process an activation of the phone. In order to get the phone to work, you need to activate the SIM in a Verizon phone first (Current Customer with a Activated SIM). Even then, problems have been reported getting non-Verizon phones to activate on the network, even though it is theoretically possible. To your point, Verizon doesn't prohibit the use of non-Verizon phones on their network but they don't recommend it and won't provide much support if there is an issue with the phone working on the network. The point is, The 950/950XL might be able to be used for current customers who are already activated with a SIM ie..just move the SIM from current phone to new Phone. Based on Verizon's current and past practices, New activations on UNSUPPORTED(not sold by VZW) devices are not likely to work well if at all.

As stated before like others and to answer the question in the thread, if VZW doesn't carry this phone, or if it can't be activated on VZW's Network, I will be taking my numbers to ATT just for the the 950XL.

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Tidbits
Legend

It can work on Verizon, but the problem is activation. Just look at the Nexus 6 for example. I explained it in their forums. Ironically I got flamed and trashed on but in the end it showed those guys were the trolls.

Activation best works by using a Sim adaptor and activating the new sim with your previous device or a dummy device(corporate Verizon stores should have these. They are the demo phones on the floor for example). Once the sim is activated you should have no trouble unless Microsoft botched something.

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Geebox
Contributor - Level 3

Of course I'm referring to Windows Phone & Verizon

Tidbits
Legend

Yes they said that, but the problem is they can't force people off CDMA without giving them a new device on their own dime or letting go them go completely. There's at least 45% (last projected number I remember recently) of people relying on CDMA. That's at least 45M people. If it was like 2-3M then I could see Verizon just killing it off moving people or letting them go in some sort of combination. Maybe around 10M max i would think. This doesn't include the legacy prepaid companies that MVNO Verizons network.

Verizon will do it and closer to completion they'll probably throw some incentives or let people go so they can move forward, but right now it's just a pacing game

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Tepid
Contributor - Level 1

Add me to this list of jumping ship and taking 2 phones with me.

robert5050
Enthusiast - Level 3

I have a business account with 20 Lumia Icons.  If the 950 does not come to Verizon in a reasonable time, I will be looking at moving our entire account over to ATT.  If you are upgrading phones, switching carriers at the same time isn't much more difficult.  Our experience with Verizon was mediocre at best.  It took Verizon forever to release the 8.1 update. We're also still ticked off on how Verizon gives basic visual voicemail to android and iphone users but charges Windows Phone users 2.99 for the same service.  Verizon actually disables the Windows inbuilt Visual VM app and charges you to use theirs.  Microsoft should be suing them.

rcschnoor
Legend

robert5050 wrote:

I have a business account with 20 Lumia Icons.  If the 950 does not come to Verizon in a reasonable time, I will be looking at moving our entire account over to ATT.  If you are upgrading phones, switching carriers at the same time isn't much more difficult.  Our experience with Verizon was mediocre at best.  It took Verizon forever to release the 8.1 update. We're also still ticked off on how Verizon gives basic visual voicemail to android and iphone users but charges Windows Phone users 2.99 for the same service.  Verizon actually disables the Windows inbuilt Visual VM app and charges you to use theirs.  Microsoft should be suing them.

With all your complaints about Verizon, I am surprised you would stay with them if they choose to carry the 950??? From the tone of your post, you should be switching providers regardless what Verizon does.

SickFreak
Specialist - Level 1

Although I've been with VZW for ages, I'm the techie for all my family and friends, so I help them purchase pretty much anything electronic.  One of the things I like about AT&T is that they seem to be more phone agnostic than VZW.  When I take someone into the AT&T (or T-Mobile) store, they don't care which phone the customer chooses - iPhone, WP or Android - just as long as the customer buys service from them.  (Which, IMO, is the way it should be.)  Unfortunately, with VZW, I couldn't even tell you how many times I've taken someone into a VZW store (multiple states, cities & stores) and try to show the person their options and the VZW reps do the hard sell for the Android phones and actively try to talk the customer out of the other options - even to the point of saying that there is "no such thing" as a Windows phones.  It seems like VZW primary goal is to be a subsidiary of Google and a mobile service carrier second.  I've even seen people specifically come in for the iPhone and the VZW rep pushes the Android.

Geebox
Contributor - Level 3

If Verizon does not get this phone or if Microsoft makes this phone compatible with CDMA and Verizon chooses to not allow this phone on VZW, I will unfortunately definitely be taking my $200.00 a month phone numbers over to the unliked ATT. Though my 2  Lumia 928's and 822 off contract are still going strong, this is the first Phone since flip phones, Windows Mobile and 15 years of service, that I will be willing to actually switch for.. I wish it doesn't come to this, but I will be leaving if the above is true.

Blanchardtech
Enthusiast - Level 2

I guess they will be loosing you as a customer.  The 950 and 950XL are not and will not be CDMA.   They may offer a comparable device but due to chip set requirements of Verizon it would never bare the same model number as their would be confusion about which were GSM and which were CDMA.    Verizon sealed its fate with phones by getting into bed with QUALCOMM and building its infrastructure around a new technology that failed globally.   CMDA was far superior to GSM when it came out and Verizon jumped at the opportunity to use it and built its entire network on this, while AT&T and others stuck with the much slower but more widely available GSM.   Unfortunately CDMAs superiority lasted less then a year before GSM caught up, so companies never had to make the switch leaving Verizon as the only major provider (Sprint piggy backed the verizon network at the time) in the world to support CDMA.   For you old folks, its the old VHS vs BETA scenario, BETA was superior, but GSM was cheaper and most people prefer cheap.  Unfortunately for Verizon, the cost to change over it entire infrastructure is so astronomical it would bankrupt the company unless they got in bed with AT&T like T-Mobile and Sprint ended up doing.   Microsoft has tried several times to work with Verizon and Verizon has looked at the numbers and said "No Thanks" because less then 2% of the phones sold on the Verizon network and it is not worth their effort financially.  If you are a true windows phone lover (Like me) and you are a loyal Verizon customer (like me), it the rough equivalent of being in an abusive relationship with someone you are committed to staying with.  They continue to treat windows phones with disdain, they want you to go away, but they don't want you to leave, just accept the abuse, surrender your soul and switch to far inferior but more popular Android.  

dexman
Community Leader
Community Leader

I don't think that Windows based phones make up much more of at&t's sales, yet, it continues to support WPs and will be getting the new high end phones. If it were strictly a case of sales numbers no US carrier would support it. There must be more to the story than low sales figures.

Snn5
Legend

Thought that was why VoLTE was implemented.  However, I'm not a fan of AC 1.0.

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