The FCC and your 8.1 Cyan Update

[MadDogFL62]

"We welcome your complaints and concerns.  Please use the www.fcc.gov/complaints Website as this is the most expedient way to file a complaint.  After doing so, we will assign an FCC Agent to your complaint.  It is the goal of the FCC Agent to work with Verizon to establish some kind of resolution."

And so went my conversation with the FCC today regarding these "irregular", "illegal", "useless", "annoying" and other such-defined complaints that we have all been told "aren't worth filing". 

The FCC said that all complaints are considered "real" and that all are assigned to FCC Agents.  The FCC Agent then contacts Verizon to try to find a solution - then brings the customer into the loop to see that either (A) the problem is solved, or (B) the customer decides to escalate because they do not feel that the problem is solved.

"Escalate" was a fresh option so I asked my Rep to explain.  I was told that if you are not satisfied with what the Verizon Rep tells you during their call, that you can contact the FCC and ask for a Mediation Specialist to step in.  This request must be made in writing, must include your complaint number, and must be sent via mail or fax.  A request for mediation is an aggressive step, therefore the FCC can no longer receive electronic correspondence regarding the complaint.  This sounded extremely "official" - making the request in writing, etc. - but a legitimate option nonetheless as complaints in the past have gone nowhere with Verizon.

My FCC Rep was eager to know what my concerns with Verizon were and confirmed that they were legitimate complaints.  She also said that since the Verizon Customer Contract could come into play during mediation, that they always suggest that the consumer's State Attorney's Office receives communication about the complaint as well.  I was told that the State Attorney's Office would take a serious look at the complaint - especially after seeing that I took the time to go through the FCC complaint process and that I am asking for mediation.

I planned on going to the State Attorney's Office with a pile of paperwork after this round of complaints, but the whole idea about FCC mediation may accomplish the goal of getting someone to pay attention at Verizon.  It may accomplish something simple like a documented public update schedule for Windows Phones from Verizon (as has been discussed out here in the past), or it may be something big like a resolution that involves Microsoft working more closely with Verizon to participate in pre-release testing programs. 

Do you have your 8.1 Cyan Update yet?  Do you have a better plan to promote you getting your update (or future updates) faster?  If you answered "no" to both, then please join me by filing your complaint.  Feel free to ask for mediation when Verizon calls to ask how things are going and by all means, be sure to let your State Attorney's Office know as well.  No one is looking to sue anyone.  No one is looking for fees or fines.  There is nothing illegal happening here that we are the whistleblowers on.  Just looking for a change that benefits the paying customer when it comes to updating our Windows Phone devices.  Please join me.

FCC Consumer Line:  1-888-225-5322

Federal Communications Commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau

Consumer Complaints

445 12th Street, SW

Washington, D.C. 20554

FAX:  1- 866-418-0232

FCC Complaints:  File Complaint | FCC.gov

State Attorney's Offices throughout the US:  NAAG | Current Attorneys General

[47seijar]

Dude, you've been grinding on this issue for weeks!! Why don't you just get it over with and buy an iPhone? At least you'll get your updates when everybody else gets them - no involvement from Verizon. C'mon, you KNOW you want an iPhone. It's ok to admit it. You're among friends.

[MadDogFL62]

47seijar:  Words of wisdom from a Nokia ICON owner.  Why don't you tell us why YOU own an iPhone and ICON?

Aren't you glad you spent all that money on your ICON and now it's not getting an update?  You must love the ICON because "something about it" drove you to pay twice what you did for your iPhone!  I am empathetic.  I know that this whole "no 8.1 Cyan" issue is killing you because you spend so much time out here trying to find out a release date. 

Rumors are - Cyan hits the week of August 18th.  But you know how rumors are - you're an Apple owner too!

PS:  I do like the Verizon Forum Avatar update, too!  The Rainbow Apple just wasn't you.  And we're a lot more friendly out here on the Windows Phone Forum! 

[47seijar]

I'm sure that I WILL get the Cyan update, and fairly soon too. I'd rather Verizon take their time and get it right than push out some half-baked update that causes problems and potentially hoses my Icon. My Icon works great right now. What's the rush with this update anyway?

How about my new BlackBerry avatar?  BlackBerry was my first love, and if Verizon gets the BlackBerry Passport I may go back. 10+ years with BlackBerrys makes it a tough habit to kick.

[MadDogFL62]

Yea, had a Blackberry too.  Corporate issue - from side menu roller access, to track ball, to small touch square.  Corporate went to iPhones, but I didn't want an app-launcher.  Got a Corporate Plan with my Windows Phone, but I have to pay it then get the expense reimbursed.

I've was using the Cyan update for many months on one of my company phones that we have to test our mobile apps on through the WP Developer Program.  Cortana and the 8.1 features are awesome.  Now running 8.1 GDR 1 on the same phone.  Stable for 8 days now, and some cool updates in GDR 1 for creating folder tiles.  Xbox Music has some nice updates in that release as well.

The Developer Program for Windows Phone is pretty good.  Below is some info about getting on board.  Something to do until Verizon releases Cyan.  Just make sure you back up your phone prior to joining and running the updates.  There remains a slight chance that you may have to restore back to 8 before loading Cyan.

Windows Phone 8.1 GDR 1 Option

[47seijar]

I'm running the PfD8.1 on my Icon and love it. I think WP's people hub is the best implementation of contacts management in the mobile game. Likewise, BlackBerry's message hub is the best implementation of messaging. And BB10 is finally starting to live up to it's potential. Running Android apps natively is a help too.

The most brilliant thing about WP8.1 on my Icon though is how it operates when connected to my car via bluetooth. The option to "read", "ignore", or "respond" to messages as they arrive is awesome. Cortana blows Siri away. Looks like Microsoft finally took a page out of Apple's playbook. Jobs said, "You don't have to be first in a space, as long as you're the best."

[phanes]

My friend has an iPhone.  I've used his enough to hate it.

I love the Lumia Icon and if someone gave me an iPhone, I'd want to trade it off for an Icon.

While it's true (and a bit annoying) that so many apps are only available for iPhone and Android, I consider my stubborn support for the Windows Phone (specifically Icon) a mark of my love for it.  It's like casting my vote into the phone world.  I wanted something I could use as a "mini-computer" without getting a full-sized tablet.  I really REALLY wanted the Nokia Lumia 1520, but since that's an AT&T exclusive and since AT&T really sucks around here due to dropped calls, I had to remain with Verizon through which I so rarely get dropped calls that it's never an annoyance.

So the best thing I could get through Verizon was the Lumia Icon.  I was angry about that, but at least this Icon is bigger than any iPhone they had.

[Krunal]

I just got off the phone with verizon second level tech person. She said Window Phone 8.1 update has been rolled out to 62% of Windows Phone Verizon customers. I am checking it everyday, I havent received anything yet, I guess I am in remaining 38%.@MadDogFL62

[primortal]

They are lying to you....

If WP 8.1 was rolling out to devices I guarantee you WPCentral would be reporting on this or members on their forums.  In fact WPCentral is reporting that AT&T is reportedly just started rolling out the update to the Lumia 1020.

Also this page, Availability in North America - Nokia would have reflected that it was available; sometimes a day or two behind reporting availability.

MadDogFL62 something to add to you FCC case that customer service blatantly lied about the roll out to their customers

[Krunal]

primortal, lets assume for a second they are lying. now think logically and tell me a reason why would the person on the phone would have lied about this?  What would she get out of it? What would have prompted her to say 62% instead of lets say 30% or 40%? She could have very well said any number right?

Another possibility is all agents are told to lie about it, I.e someone higher up in CS dept told all agents to to lie about it, in that case, they would have an internal record with that communication and do you understand the legal implications if that every gets leaked out?

In any case, I wouldn't call someone a liar without proof.

In the worst case, I think here is what could have happened.

1. Her internal systems showed that 62% customers are already upgraded - This could be due to people upgrading their own through dev channel?

2. She might have misunderstood windows phone 8.1 update and provided me number for some completely irrelavent update 

[primortal]

From a customer service perspective they have metrics on how many calls answered and out of those calls how many have been closed and those remaining open/unanswered.  It's in their best interest to close all requests vs. having ones open.

The proof is no one is getting Windows Phone 8.1 + Cyan from VZW at the moment.  It would be reported on various web sites that VZW has started pushing out the update.

I might have been harsh in say the CS lies; maybe she miss understood the question.  Maybe 62% of the install base is customers with the Developers Preview installed which does not include the firmware upgrade; though that is not coming from VZW but from Microsoft.  Splitting hairs...

So she is either a) confused with the WP 8.1+Cyan and DP WP 8.1 or b) Higher ups pushed that script down to placate customers....

[MadDogFL62]

<< Duplicate post.  See Re: Windows Phone DAY at Verizon 8/19/14 >>

Post edited by: Verizon Moderator

[MadDogFL62]

Update.

Verizon called about FCC claim.  I did not call back.

Verizon sent email about FCC claim.  I returned the email, copied myself, and told them that unless they had a crystal clear explanation about how there were going to handle these WP update delays that we have been experiencing for 3 years now, that they needed to keep my claim open and that I wanted mediation with the FCC.  (The FCC told me over the phone that it is up to Verizon to tell them that I requested the claim to stay open.  I am anxious to see if they do.)

Verizon has tried to contact me again by phone using some cowardly "restricted" phone number that I refuse to answer.  I don't need any Verizon lip service and I am most certainly going to make sure that someone from the FCC is on the line if options, alternatives, resolutions - or "whatever" are to be communicated.  I expect to hear from Verizon again in writing this week, or I am going to take the copy of my first Verizon email and fax it over to the FCC following the procedures listed at the beginning of this post/thread.

So far, so good.  I have a small amount of paper backup.  Confirmation from the FCC regarding my complaint and a brief email thread with Verizon telling them that I am unhappy with their response and that I expected them to report the claim as still open.  I am anxious to see what Verizon will do because they clearly did not like hearing that I wanted the claim left open.  And if they don't communicate to me in writing soon - I am going to be even more interested to see what the FCC has to say about my request when I write them.  I figure that, from there, I will either get some mediation, the FCC will talk to Verizon directly about the situation, or I will be sending my paperwork over to Pam Bondi's Staff to see what they suggest.

[grafixguy]

First off, I too want these updates and I am in no way defending Verizon, but for the love god, why are you still a VZW customer? They're not a monopoly.

Every customer knows they're going to be last to roll out updates. I wouldn't even think to start bitching about it until the other carriers are done rolling it out and they're not even close to doing so.

At least with WP we have the developer preview, which right now, is at the exact same build as any public releases and no, it won't void a warranty. With Android, you'd either have to wait forever or root the phone.

[nemz]

     I'm sorry to say MadDog, this is one you should just let go.  By the sounds of it, the FCC is trying to make Verizon deal with you because they can't.  Like you said, "The FCC said that all complaints are considered "real" and that all are assigned to FCC Agents."  This is very true, but it's another way of saying "no matter how stupid the complaint, we have to treat it as legitimate."  I could file a complaint saying that my phone rang too loud and caused me to cut myself shaving and I could get the same response.  They are required to work with you to find a solution, but that doesn't mean it will end up with any action against Verizon.  From what you've given us, the FCC has given you the generic reply and asked if you were satisfied.  Because you weren't satisfied, they are required to bring it to Verizon's attention.  Now Verizon is calling you from a restricted number because they are hoping you just won't pick up so after the third try they can just write in the report "called the customer several times, no response." I'm pretty sure that since you've escalated this complaint so far, VZW is just going to give you a generic response but offer a way out of your contract if you're still not satisfied.  Eventually if you keep telling the FCC you're not satisfied, they will tell you it's out of their hands and they tried to help you every way that they could.  The only thing this achieves is wasting taxpayer dollars to have government workers spend time on this.

     I'm not trying to troll your posts or be an (removed) here, but it's issues like this that we can't be wasting government resources on.  We are not entitled to an update just because we want it.  VZW never promised it and it is not critical to our service.  I'm not on Verizon's side either.  The only reason I'm still with them is because of my unlimited data.  As soon as they take that away I'm jumping ship.  I'm upset that we haven't got the update yet but I'm still hopeful that they are going to release it.  Be thankful that you will get the update because you are not entitled to it.

>> Edited to comply with the Verizon Wireless Terms of Service <<

Edited by:  Verizon Moderator

[rednibkram]

It is people like you that post this nonsense that allow Verizon to keep delaying our updates.  MadDogFL is trying to do something to help us receive these updates faster.  Anything is better than nothing.  And also, let me assure you of one thing you definitely got wrong.  Verizon DOES have to release any update that the manufacturer releases unless they can prove it causes damage to their network.  Verizon cannot change code on a manufacturer update and can only test the update on their network to ensure it does not create problems on their network.  If no problems are discovered, they are legally bound to release the software update.  Otherwise, Microsoft (or any other manufacturer) would have a legal claim for damages (possibly sales) against Verizon.  I have already spoken to Microsoft executives regarding my FCC complaint, and Microsoft is currently working with the FCC to gather information regarding my claim.  The Microsoft executive that I spoke with agrees that "7 weeks is quite a lengthy time to be 'testing' a firmware update."  He said he will also try to reach Verizon Executive office to discuss the delay.

I might only be getting lip service from Verizon, Microsoft and even the FCC, but it's these kinds of posts and these kinds of actions that let Verizon know we are NOT happy with the update process and they really need to make changes.  When you guys get on here and make excuses and defend Verizon, you are NOT helping ALL of us get these updates faster.  In doing so, you are either not very smart or a Verizon employee posing as a poster.  Despite the excuses and defensive comments, we PAYING CUSTOMERS are not happy with the delays in updates at Verizon Wireless.  And another thing, you commenters keep saying "if you are not happy, switch to another carrier."  Well what if 90% of the customers who are dissatisfied with Verizon's update practices decide to switch.  Where would Verizon be then?  Maybe I'll start a campaign....

[#17]

You seem to be confused yet again

Produce the law or mandate that states verizon wireless or any carrier must support any device it sells.

They do not have to push out any updates if they do not desire to.

If verizon does assist in getting a device update it is done solely as a curtesy to the customers.

The device you bought be it from Verizon or Best Buy or Walmart or any retailer functioned on the day you purchased it.

Verizon sells a connection to the cellular and data network. That is it period.

The device worked without any update and will continue to work without one now.

The FCC and Microsoft and any other place you complain to cannot force verizon to give you any update.

You just have to wait and see what happens.

[rednibkram]

Once again, it is YOU that is confused.

Directly from Microsoft -

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2011/03/10/phone-updates-process-and-timing/

Clearly states:

"There's one more thing I want to clear up.  I've seen a lot of speculation on blogs and forums lately about whether carriers can "block" an update.  We work closely with carriers to test and schedule updates.  They may ask us for a specific date to start an update.  They may ask for updates to be bundled together.  But you should ultimately receive all the updates we send out."

Carriers CANNOT block updates!  They can test them with (or without) assistance from Microsoft, but they must ultimately send out the update!

[rcschnoor]

rednibkram wrote:

"There's one more thing I want to clear up.  I've seen a lot of speculation on blogs and forums lately about whether carriers can "block" an update.  We work closely with carriers to test and schedule updates.  They may ask us for a specific date to start an update.  They may ask for updates to be bundled together.  But you should ultimately receive all the updates we send out."

As soon as they pass testing, of course.

[rednibkram]

Exactly, which has been my point all along.  Elector, and others just don't seem to want to grasp this fact.  Verizon has been provided the update by Microsoft and they are taking entirely too long to test it.  Whatever the reason, I don't care.  Verizon should want to satisfy their customers by doing whatever they can to speed up the "testing" phase.  Simply telling paying customers to "wait, be patient and you'll get it when you get it" is not good customer service.  In fact, it's outright rude!  Denying that they even "have to provide the update" is factually wrong.  And criticizing paying customers for rightfully complaining about the delay is just plain stupid and mean!

[#21]

Verizon can take as long as it wants. This is what you and others cannot seem to understand.

In fact if by the time cyan is pushed out, you will be behind again. And say another one called checkers is out and now you are three update behind. Denim is next up?

I told you to wait and be patient not Verizon wireless. Again I am only a customer not an employee.