The FCC and your 8.1 Cyan Update

[MadDogFL62]

"We welcome your complaints and concerns.  Please use the www.fcc.gov/complaints Website as this is the most expedient way to file a complaint.  After doing so, we will assign an FCC Agent to your complaint.  It is the goal of the FCC Agent to work with Verizon to establish some kind of resolution."

And so went my conversation with the FCC today regarding these "irregular", "illegal", "useless", "annoying" and other such-defined complaints that we have all been told "aren't worth filing". 

The FCC said that all complaints are considered "real" and that all are assigned to FCC Agents.  The FCC Agent then contacts Verizon to try to find a solution - then brings the customer into the loop to see that either (A) the problem is solved, or (B) the customer decides to escalate because they do not feel that the problem is solved.

"Escalate" was a fresh option so I asked my Rep to explain.  I was told that if you are not satisfied with what the Verizon Rep tells you during their call, that you can contact the FCC and ask for a Mediation Specialist to step in.  This request must be made in writing, must include your complaint number, and must be sent via mail or fax.  A request for mediation is an aggressive step, therefore the FCC can no longer receive electronic correspondence regarding the complaint.  This sounded extremely "official" - making the request in writing, etc. - but a legitimate option nonetheless as complaints in the past have gone nowhere with Verizon.

My FCC Rep was eager to know what my concerns with Verizon were and confirmed that they were legitimate complaints.  She also said that since the Verizon Customer Contract could come into play during mediation, that they always suggest that the consumer's State Attorney's Office receives communication about the complaint as well.  I was told that the State Attorney's Office would take a serious look at the complaint - especially after seeing that I took the time to go through the FCC complaint process and that I am asking for mediation.

I planned on going to the State Attorney's Office with a pile of paperwork after this round of complaints, but the whole idea about FCC mediation may accomplish the goal of getting someone to pay attention at Verizon.  It may accomplish something simple like a documented public update schedule for Windows Phones from Verizon (as has been discussed out here in the past), or it may be something big like a resolution that involves Microsoft working more closely with Verizon to participate in pre-release testing programs. 

Do you have your 8.1 Cyan Update yet?  Do you have a better plan to promote you getting your update (or future updates) faster?  If you answered "no" to both, then please join me by filing your complaint.  Feel free to ask for mediation when Verizon calls to ask how things are going and by all means, be sure to let your State Attorney's Office know as well.  No one is looking to sue anyone.  No one is looking for fees or fines.  There is nothing illegal happening here that we are the whistleblowers on.  Just looking for a change that benefits the paying customer when it comes to updating our Windows Phone devices.  Please join me.

FCC Consumer Line:  1-888-225-5322

Federal Communications Commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau

Consumer Complaints

445 12th Street, SW

Washington, D.C. 20554

FAX:  1- 866-418-0232

FCC Complaints:  File Complaint | FCC.gov

State Attorney's Offices throughout the US:  NAAG | Current Attorneys General

[grafixguy]

I'm aware.

[MadDogFL62]

Yeah.  A little dated I guess.  Maybe the 1530 with Denim in December would be a good strategy? 

[MadDogFL62]

Cyan going out to those with Developer Preview.  Test round going out today.  Perhaps a sign of the future?

http://wmpoweruser.com/microsoft-releases-lumia-cyan-update-for-another-batch-of-developer-preview-d...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Everyone asking-- we&#39;re hoping to push some updates to Dev Preview this week, addressing storage install probs, HTC support, Cyan ramp-up.</p>&mdash; joebelfiore (@joebelfiore) <a href="https://twitter.com/joebelfiore/status/514219789112201218">September 23, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[MadDogFL62]

This Developer Preview Program is starting to be worth it's weight in gold.

Windows Phone 8.1 GDR 1 Option

[LumiaIconUser]

Yeah, I've had 8.1 for months, 8.1.1 for weeks... I would REALLY like to see the Cyan firmware now. Unfortunately, all of this Belfiore announcing has to do with fixing issues for people on DP whose carriers have already released Cyan. i.e. not us.

[BDub43]

I spoke with Verizon about my FCC complaint last night. In a nut shell, they are using the we are working with Microsoft and Nokia to resolve issue with the new firmware update and our network and have been working with the OEM on a few revisions. Once we have confirmed the software is stable on our network and other advances features such as VoLTE work we will release the firmware. I told them keep my case open because I can not believe it is that difficult to release an update that include non-network related enhancements. What makes the Verizon Network so special when the rest of the world and AT&T have release cyan on almost all of there LUMIA line old and new. It can't be CDMA because we are talking about a technology that in its current flavor has been in place since 2002 in the US, it is the technology used by GPS and LTE the new goto cellular technology for the future. Interesting piece is Qualcomm is the chip maker of choice so all the driver's are developed and issued by Qualcomm so there is no rocket science involved. erizon I call BS until you can get Microsoft\Nokia to confirm any issues you are having with the update.

Sent from my Windows Phone

[MadDogFL62]

BDub43:  I spoke to the FCC this week and discovered a few things.

First, Verizon will not report you complaint as still open.  They will write back to the FCC and tell them that there was "no violation found".  They did so in my case.  I asked the FCC why there had to be a violation attached to my complaint and I was told that "this is not a requirement".

Next, the FCC said that the next step up to the consumer.  If you want to keep your case open - regardless of Verizon's response - you need to do so in writing.  First, provide any email communication that you have had with Verizon.  Their email.  Your response(s).  Next, officially request in writing that the case stay open and why.  Once you have done so, you can mail all paperwork to the address below or simply fax it to the attention of the same organization group on the mailing address below.

From there, your follow up and request get matched in the database to  your original complaint and an agent is assigned to it from there (and may contact you via phone, email or letter).  This is pretty much the stage I am at today.

Oh, and get ready for a harassing call from Verizon - from some clown named "Ray" who calls your cell on a number that is blocked or shows as "private".  He tries to confirm who you are, asks you to call back, etc.  If you go into your phone settings / blocked calls / advanced - you can set up a block on callers who withhold phone numbers.  A nice WP feature evidently made just for Verizon.

FCC Consumer Line:  1-888-225-5322

Federal Communications Commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau

Consumer Complaints

445 12th Street, SW

Washington, D.C. 20554

FAX:  1- 866-418-0232

[BDub43]

Thanks

[BDub43]

They didn't email me anything just called me. Also I spoke with "Bryan" evidently we are not the only people complaining to the FCC. Bryan referenced that there quite few complaint and they seem to say the same thing and asked was there a website or something. I told him look on the Verizon Community website and you can see all the complaint. Hilarious it looks like they rarely review the community or only respond to things they think they have a definite solution too....

[MadDogFL62]

After getting dinged $7.4M for FCC violations, I am sure that Verizon gets very nervous with every complaint that comes through their doors.  That is why - with such relief - they respond back to the FCC regarding our upgrade complaints that "they were not able to find any violations".

As was again reinforced with me;  the FCC stated that a complaint doesn't have to be a "violation".  I am glad that there were a number of FCC complaints about this.  Now it is up to us to follow up with a fax to the FCC requesting that they push this issue with Verizon.  Pre Testing.  Shorter test periods.  Published release dates.  Consumer testing.  Status updates, etc.  Something's got to give because  60, 90, 120 days after release for an update is unacceptable.

Verizon FCC customer privacy fine: $7.4 million | BGR

[Tidbits]

HTC and Motorola has already proven you don't need pretesting from Verizon.  All of that Nokia can do on their own.  They have programs to pretest.  FCC will not press a thing as there would have to be PROOF Verizon is withholding an update that may not even be finished.  Comparing other carriers on an update doesn't prove Nokia is done.

There have been multiple projects showing carrier testing is SHORT.  Ironically FCC, WiFi, CDMA, and Bluetooth recertification takes drastically longer(found to be an average of 5-6 months, and dependent on the person who does the testing).

I wish you guys the best of luck.  The fact Microsoft pushed an "update" to get certain devices the ability to upgrade shows potentially Verizon disapproved the update for further fixing and one reason the cause of "delay"  which the FCC would side with the carrier if that is what happened.

Customer privacy is regulated.  Software development isn't...  There's a huge difference...  Poor example of the FCC actually working.  Show something that shows updates being regulated and carriers got in trouble for it.

HTC complies with the ACLU deal people bring up.  Heartbleed and the One series devices which HTC dropped support for.  That ended up have NOTHING to do with carriers.

[#13]

That complaint and fine you show has nothing to do with updates to your phone. Nice try though.

The FCC does not make Verizon quake since first Verizon is not obligated to update the device past its initial offering (day of sale) unless there is a security issue on their network. There are no security issues. That I have read about.

what most here complain about is an enhanced customer experience. what ever that is I don't know and really don't care. Probably looking at pretty tiles and the phone talks to you. Not really a security issue on Verizon's network.

And it was Verizon Wireless that won the lawsuit over net neutrality. Not the FCC

You see Verizon employs big time attorneys as well. And they have the resources to prove it.

And in every settlement or suit Verizon pulled in a gazillion dollars in ill gotten gains and paid out a few million.

kind of makes sense to have that business ethic wouldn't you say?

In any case all the complaints in the world will not get you that update unless Verizon wants you to have it. It is just that simple.

Again Good Luck

[MadDogFL62]

Elector.  Stick to the subject.  Yes, the sky is blue.  You are ever so right once again.  SMH.

Verizon's response back to the FCC regarding my complaint reinforces that they are now paying attention to FCC complaints now more than ever.  Verizon's specific statement back to the FCC regarding my complaint that "there are no violations here" also indicates their concern with more violations.  It doesn't matter if they have lawyers.  It doesn't matter if they have Indian Chiefs.  Verizon still has a $7.4M scar on their backside and it still nags them every time an FCC envelope hits the mail room!

The FCC has a different view regarding Verizon's response and provides the consumer the opportunity to re-address their complaint regardless of whether they are an FCC violation or not.  BDub43's communication with Verizon indicates that there were a significant number of customers who complained about this update, so again - we are getting someone's attention.

Once the FCC starts to get more written consumer requests for follow up on our upgrade complaints, there is a chance that "attention" may turn to "action".  Sometimes, you just have to make your own luck.

[Tidbits]

Like what has been happening the previous 6 years of the same complaints and FCC inaction. FCC will do nothing because no one has shown proof as what people speculate. With the recent update by MS would give pause to such investigation because the adverse effect the previous update had and a delay would have been a good thing.

[#16]

Want do you want to bet once these people got their update they would then be making posts like " 8.1 bricked my phone. How can I revert back to 8.0" or "When is 8.2 coming out.?"

[#17]

Ha ha I have said that in previous posts. Just like the kitty Kat updates and now iOS 8 complaints which Apple did and not Verizon wireless. Look at the Apple site. Its loaded with device issues under iOS 8

[#18]

Don't get this wrong. I would say one morning you wake up in that blue sky and the device will show an update available. What month or year that is will be anyone's guess.

As I told you from your first post of complain to the FCC the complaint is not valid. Its like how in the agency I worked in we had a number of pests who would send letters, faxes even emails and they went into the kook file in my office. This is what happens when people complain without any legal or common sense standing.

We had a few others that would serve me with legal service and after filing it in and handing to counsel we had the agency attorney thrash them in court. Varied reasons the judge would throw them out. One reason was the legal complaint was not based in fact of law. Others for documents not showing a case exists.

I am positive the FCC has such a file.

If you actually can prove by facts that Verizon has to update your device or any written decision of law then don't you think that the FCC would be all over Verizon and other carriers?

I would then say you had a good case and be happy for you. However that is not how its coming out.

You and others file complaints and you get an acknowledgment from the FCC and then Verizon and other carriers respond as no violation on their parts.

So you write again and again and while you and others keep this going, there is still no update to your devices.

Its not bad to complain, but its foolish to keep complaining with no merit.

Hey keep complaining if it makes you feel better. Its not going to change the ce!lular industry to be forced to update or update on a schedule. The FCC and the FTC do not have that authority.

Have a nice evening.

[jharris326]

A troll is still a troll and you sir are very much a troll.

[jharris326]

Sorry I lost Internet connectivity.

A troll is still a troll and you sir are very much a troll or work for Verizon either for pay or for free but you still work to keep people from being upset at Verizon for their gross mismanagement of the Cyan firmware and Windows 8.1 update roll out.  I guess it works well for you but some of us would prefer you go else where and "help" others!

[Tidbits]

jharris326 wrote:

Sorry I lost Internet connectivity.

A troll is still a troll and you sir are very much a troll or work for Verizon either for pay or for free but you still work to keep people from being upset at Verizon for their gross mismanagement of the Cyan firmware and Windows 8.1 update roll out.  I guess it works well for you but some of us would prefer you go else where and "help" others!

Yet you have no evidence to back that up.  Speculation being pushed as fact is much a trollish move.  Where is the proof that Verizon has the update and it passed everything, and Verizon is withholding the update.  FCC will do nothing because you have not shown any evidence.  ACLU had proof, when Verizon was blocking tethering apps there was proof and everything was handled in a matter of weeks/months.  It's been 6 years of this stuff and FCC has done NOTHING.  That speaks VOLUMES.  You aren't the first to do this and you will not be the last...

Europe has shown what you want, but your refusal to try it is much to be desired.  Be careful for what you wish for.  If the FCC regulates updates and ensures no carrier involvement.  That would mean Qualcomm can't protect it's patent and have carriers follow their requirements.  If something happens with the radio and update because of your device then you can't blame Verizon.  If the update breaks your phone then you can't blame Verizon either.  Which has proven regardless if carriers are hands on or hands off they'll be blamed.  Carriers will more than likely drop their warranty support on behalf of the manufacturer and be more like GameStop, BestBuy, and such outside the 14 days window because those problems are not their problem.  You'll end up waiting 2-3 weeks for a refurbished phone, and such too.  Think about it...

On top of that if the delay is still there you'd have to blame the manufacturer instead of the carrier and that would further proof my argument...

[MadDogFL62]

jharris326  It's forum and post posture 101.  Electra plays an important role in the entire ecosystem of the forum.  You see, he is always right - and he must always tell you that.  And while it's easy to identify that he has a problem - "we" keep it to ourselves because his rambling posts help keep our issues and concerns about the update at the TOP of the forum.  So, be kind.  Let him go.  He serves a purpose.

Then there's Tids.  Sorry, but I disconnected with him a long time ago.  Girls, gambling, alcohol - I don't know what to suggest.  The guy needs some kind of bad habit to cheer him up.  Always grumpy yet always has to stay in the mix.  Also a rambler... "I know because I am technical", blah, blah, blah.  But then again, I appreciate him as he also helps keep our issues at the top of the Windows Phone forum.

And so that there are no accusations about US wasting valuable forum space - I have to ask...  Did you complain to the FCC?  And if so, did Verizon contact you back yet?  And if so, was it by phone or email?  And if so, what did they have to say?  And if there was conversation, what did you tell Verizon?

I was extremely disappointed to talk to the FCC last Friday to find that all Verizon had to say about my complaint was that there was "no violation".  I asked the FCC Rep to read my complaint and she kind of chuckled at both Verizon's response, as well as the content of the email I sent in from Verizon that talked around the update delay and asked me to buy more stuff (accessories).

I have started another post (that I expect Electra and Tids to visit soon) - requesting that those who have been contacted by Verizon regarding their FCC complaint send in a follow up letter/fax TO the FCC stating that the update has still not been received and that you want the FCC to address delays and remedy the situation.  It's unfortunate that Verizon wants to talk in circles and avoid addressing the issue.  It's even more concerning that Verizon doesn't have the common courtesy to address the situation with their bill paying customers.  There are a volume of us with FCC complaints filed about the update delay and it will be critical that the same mass of upset customers/consumers push the FCC to visit this specifically with Verizon.

In the mean time, please let the Boys roll.  Post away!  Their forum "support" is critical to our community.