The FCC and your 8.1 Cyan Update

[MadDogFL62]

"We welcome your complaints and concerns.  Please use the www.fcc.gov/complaints Website as this is the most expedient way to file a complaint.  After doing so, we will assign an FCC Agent to your complaint.  It is the goal of the FCC Agent to work with Verizon to establish some kind of resolution."

And so went my conversation with the FCC today regarding these "irregular", "illegal", "useless", "annoying" and other such-defined complaints that we have all been told "aren't worth filing". 

The FCC said that all complaints are considered "real" and that all are assigned to FCC Agents.  The FCC Agent then contacts Verizon to try to find a solution - then brings the customer into the loop to see that either (A) the problem is solved, or (B) the customer decides to escalate because they do not feel that the problem is solved.

"Escalate" was a fresh option so I asked my Rep to explain.  I was told that if you are not satisfied with what the Verizon Rep tells you during their call, that you can contact the FCC and ask for a Mediation Specialist to step in.  This request must be made in writing, must include your complaint number, and must be sent via mail or fax.  A request for mediation is an aggressive step, therefore the FCC can no longer receive electronic correspondence regarding the complaint.  This sounded extremely "official" - making the request in writing, etc. - but a legitimate option nonetheless as complaints in the past have gone nowhere with Verizon.

My FCC Rep was eager to know what my concerns with Verizon were and confirmed that they were legitimate complaints.  She also said that since the Verizon Customer Contract could come into play during mediation, that they always suggest that the consumer's State Attorney's Office receives communication about the complaint as well.  I was told that the State Attorney's Office would take a serious look at the complaint - especially after seeing that I took the time to go through the FCC complaint process and that I am asking for mediation.

I planned on going to the State Attorney's Office with a pile of paperwork after this round of complaints, but the whole idea about FCC mediation may accomplish the goal of getting someone to pay attention at Verizon.  It may accomplish something simple like a documented public update schedule for Windows Phones from Verizon (as has been discussed out here in the past), or it may be something big like a resolution that involves Microsoft working more closely with Verizon to participate in pre-release testing programs. 

Do you have your 8.1 Cyan Update yet?  Do you have a better plan to promote you getting your update (or future updates) faster?  If you answered "no" to both, then please join me by filing your complaint.  Feel free to ask for mediation when Verizon calls to ask how things are going and by all means, be sure to let your State Attorney's Office know as well.  No one is looking to sue anyone.  No one is looking for fees or fines.  There is nothing illegal happening here that we are the whistleblowers on.  Just looking for a change that benefits the paying customer when it comes to updating our Windows Phone devices.  Please join me.

FCC Consumer Line:  1-888-225-5322

Federal Communications Commission

Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau

Consumer Complaints

445 12th Street, SW

Washington, D.C. 20554

FAX:  1- 866-418-0232

FCC Complaints:  File Complaint | FCC.gov

State Attorney's Offices throughout the US:  NAAG | Current Attorneys General

[Tidbits]

Look at Motorola and HTC. It already had an impact and it came directly from the manufacturer and NOT the carriers. The heartbleed bug and how it was fixed by HTC. It didn't take long and was pushed out quickly by those two companies yet other companies that were affect still have yet to push fixes.

Europe at the same time with those two companies are doing what Nokia isn't doing... Facts are facts and HTC and Motorola are showing that carriers actually have less control and less power than you guys believe they have. J

[rednibkram]

Dude, why is it so hard for you to  understand?  Yes, HTC and Motorola's updates came directly from the manufacturer.  ALL updates come directly from the manufacturer because Verizon does not write code for any device.  If it is a "software update" that doe NOT include any "firmware" changes that will affect hardware, Verizon will NOT block the update.  This is proven with the ability for us Lumia users to receive the Windows Phone Developer Preview updates directly from Microsoft.  But before ANY manufacturer (other than Apple) can release a "firmware" update to a "locked device" on Verizon, Verizon REQUIRES they be allowed to test it on their network FIRST!  That is the process!  That is why we Lumia Cyan and Lumia 928 users have NOT yet received the Cyan firmware update.  Verizon is holding it up for whatever reason!  I have already confirmed this FACT with BOTH Verizon and Microsoft!

I can't make this any more clear.  Software not blocked, firmware REQUIRES TESTING!  Got it now?

[#4]

[Your quote from a previous reply]

So, please stop trolling everyone and giving your stupid reasons for us to "stop complaining," because we won't.   We will remain firm in our resolve to affect these changes, even if we have to complain to the FCC, FTC, CIA, FBI, Congress, Senate, Vice-President, President or Ronald McDonald!

[End of your quote]

No word put in your mouth other than your own above

And, I have stated in the past, you have every right to make your comments as I do, so please don't put words in my mouth attempting to make me out to say otherwise.  Read my previous posts if you don't believe me.

(see your own words above)

It would seem like I stated when you don't agree with my stand or Tidbits or anyone who believes your complaints are not going anywhere, you call us trolls and tell us not to voice / write our opinions.

You see I don't tell you not to post, I don't resort to name calling which as I said just proves the arguments you are trying to convey are now cheapened. Name calling and suppression of my views because I and others don't agree and then going to a new low with name calling and requests to "troll" some where else.

Having a different view is not trolling, it is discussion.

[DC4000]

I'm going to contact the WWE about this. Oh yea brother!

[rednibkram]

Yes, and there is a difference between "trolling" and "discussion."  What you are doing it "trolling."   If you voice your disagreement once or even twice, that is a discussion, but when you show up on almost every single complaint forum repeating the same stupid reasons for us NOT to complain, that is "trolling."  So I did not ask you to stop "discussing," I asked you to stop "trolling."  A big difference.  And pointing out what you are doing is not "name calling."  If the shoe fits...

"And, I have stated in the past, you have every right to make your comments as I do...."  refers to making your point.

And as far as "suppression of views" is concerned, that is exactly what you and Tidbits have been attempting to do to us since the beinnging of these comments!  Since July 15th when Microsoft released the firmware update to Verizon for testing, we have been on these forums asking "when will be get the Cyan update?"  You and Tidbits have since been on here trying the make the argument that we should "stop complaining", "it will do no good," "you're not entitled", etc. etc. etc.

If I am guilty of trying to "supress your views" its out of defense of you and Tidbits trying to supress ours!

Have a good day!

[#7]

[quote]

Yes, and there is a difference between "trolling" and "discussion."  What you are doing it "trolling."   If you voice your disagreement once or even twice, that is a discussion, but when you show up on almost every single complaint forum repeating the same stupid reasons for us NOT to complain, that is "trolling."  So I did not ask you to stop "discussing," I asked you to stop "trolling."  A big difference.  And pointing out what you are doing is not "name calling."  If the shoe fits...

[/quote]

What you are missing is you are posting over and over the opposite view that Verizon is required to do this or Verizon is required to do that and when you and others are Shown that no laws or regulations exist that compel any carrier to give any update the same ones who voice their inaccurate demands then call opposing views by saying "Troll" or changing the posting name like "Electra" or "Tibs" and like that other poster making comments of where else do they post?

You see its you and others that are trolling. You first know that no rule states you are granted an update. You are shown the update process (and no one cares if it went out in July as some claim), each complaint and discussion is rebuttled.

Then due to all the weak arguments from those erroneously complaining the "discussion" is then labeled "trolling" because its your posters that want to abridge my rights to my opinions.

Then when you say "I am not telling you not to voice your opinion" I show you that you have and continue to do so.

In any discussion all I require that the person is civil. I don't hold animosity towards the poster I just have a different opinion or view than you and others.

Complain? Hey its your time and your right to complain. However let's say based on up to today, where is your update?

Still no official response from the carrier. And only AT&T has released the update. So the complaints are also at other providers. So the one comment above where a poster say's "come on Verizon you are the last to give our updates" is actually a "false" statement. Is it not?

Even though I was busy yesterday (thank the stars) I noticed the Apple update which Verizon does not control had another patch update which I did not take is full of bricked devices and problems. Above the ones they documentated previously.

So sometimes updates are not to good. (Notice complaints on this forum which Verizon had nothing to do with which is another point I brought up in reference to you saying if you get the update you believe Verizon is responsible, they are not. See Apple owns up to their update mistakes quickly. Same should be done via Microsoft)

And a good day to you as well!

[rednibkram]

Oh please!  Don't come across as all sanctimonious with me!  Both you and Tidbits have, on more than one occasion referred to us "complainers" as "whiners."  So please don't try to make yourself out to be any better than the rest of us.  You've done your share of "name calling" as well.

Now, to get back to a more "professional" point of view.  What you and Tidbits are failing to see is that, even though you state, and it may very well be the case, that there are no current laws or regulations that require Verizon to provide the update, we are trying to change that!  Verizon has too much power in regards to this.  I have spoken with several individuals, one of which works closely with JB at Microsoft, and they have stated that currently there is no way around the "firmware testing requirement" that carriers demand.  Microsoft, Google, Samsung, HTC and many other manufacturers want this changed, but they require the assistance of the public (we the voters) to put pressure on Congress to make the change because the carriers have too much power (campaign funding) over the politicians.  We the voters need to "make waves" that ensure the politician will not be elected (no matter how much money the carriers push to the politician) if they don't make the change.

This is what we are trying to accomplish.  We the users, who are tired of these long delays and possible device sales manipulation, want change.  The only way to get change is to VOICE YOUR DISPLEASURE!

You and Tidbits, keep trying to get us to "stop complaining," but we don't want to because we don't want things to stay the same.  We want more and more people to complain and take it from the forum to the politicians.

So, emotionally, when you and Tidbits get online here and keep giving reasons, no matter how reasonable they may be, for us to stop complaining, you are hurting the cause and frankly angering the people who want change.

Having said that, do you really have to wonder why some would resort to ugly, and admittedly immature, name calling.

So, I say to you, if you are happy with the (what I consider to be) extremely long waits to receive updates that the manufacturers have decided we need for our device, then good for you.  Enjoy our long wait.  But for the rest of us, who are NOT happy waiting, let us proceed with our fight for change, not matter how futile it might be.  At least we are trying!

[BDub43]

I agree 100%. By the way the L735 will release this year on VZ with the denim firmware. There is no technical reason the ICON should not receive that firmware at the same time.

Sent from my Windows Phone

[LumiaIconUser]

What makes it trolling is their insistence on having the last word in an "argument" that NO ONE WANTS TO HAVE WITH THEM. Unless they are employees of VZW, their posts on this topic have ZERO BEARING on the situation. They aren't even WP users, as far as I have been able to tell.

Que the next "last word" now...

[B33]

There not employees there members just like you.. This is a peer to peer forum,  Employees only use these two Avatars.. seen below..

[primortal]

B33 wrote:

There not employees there members just like you.. And this is a peer to peer forum,  employees are marked by these two Avatars.. seen below..

Not to play devils advocate, but VZW employees don't have to use their employee accounts to post here.  They could easily create "normal" accounts and post without actually representing VZW

[B33]

Well I guess that could happen, who know there might be Sprint, T-Mobil and US Cellular employees on here too just to chime in..

[#14]

Actually that would be a good point. However I believe any comments made for Verizon as employee either legitimately in their job or as a regular customer would be grounds for dismissal.

I believe the Forum Administrator can attest to who is and is not an employee. Since she is a Verizon employee.

The posts would come down. Wouldn't you think?

My comments are my own. Not in any way employed (retired) by any company or service relating to the update comments.

[primortal]

And how would VZW know?  If there are any employees working from home or posting via LTE device they would never know would they?  Same would go on how would a Forum Admin know?

[#16]

I am not positive but I believe the forum logs in where the poster is from. I have seen some posters get canned for one reason or another and then when the try and log back on after account set up the account is terminated.

I am sure there is a company policy on using any computer or service while in their employ. To even visit here without company permission or purpose.

But I cannot say 100% what happens.

[grafixguy]

How do we know you don't work for ATT?

[#18]

You get a response because you post inaccurate or down right foolishness.

I have told you over and over I do not work for Verizon; yet because of your weak stance on this subject you keep making implications that have already been rebutted just like your arguments.

As a customer I do not use your device, my avatar shows what? An Apple iPhone.

Tidbits has posted he has or still uses the windows phone. But that makes no difference.

If you are writing inaccurate information for all to see then I as a customer have the right to tell you that your information is incorrect.

This is what you don't like. Everything I say has legitimate bearing.

Since like the other poster stated slow updates affects all users outside of Apple Devices. He is civil, he uses his logic in what is written. I cannot say the same for you. And we disagree but he doesn't resort to subterfuge to deflect his argument. (Must be a troll or a plant from Verizon wireless etc.)

If anyone is stirring the pot it is in many of your responses. Not mine.

Good Luck

[Tidbits]

rednibkram wrote:

Oh please!  Don't come across as all sanctimonious with me!  Both you and Tidbits have, on more than one occasion referred to us "complainers" as "whiners."  So please don't try to make yourself out to be any better than the rest of us.  You've done your share of "name calling" as well.

Now, to get back to a more "professional" point of view.  What you and Tidbits are failing to see is that, even though you state, and it may very well be the case, that there are no current laws or regulations that require Verizon to provide the update, we are trying to change that!  Verizon has too much power in regards to this.  I have spoken with several individuals, one of which works closely with JB at Microsoft, and they have stated that currently there is no way around the "firmware testing requirement" that carriers demand.  Microsoft, Google, Samsung, HTC and many other manufacturers want this changed, but they require the assistance of the public (we the voters) to put pressure on Congress to make the change because the carriers have too much power (campaign funding) over the politicians.  We the voters need to "make waves" that ensure the politician will not be elected (no matter how much money the carriers push to the politician) if they don't make the change.

This is what we are trying to accomplish.  We the users, who are tired of these long delays and possible device sales manipulation, want change.  The only way to get change is to VOICE YOUR DISPLEASURE!

You and Tidbits, keep trying to get us to "stop complaining," but we don't want to because we don't want things to stay the same.  We want more and more people to complain and take it from the forum to the politicians.

So, emotionally, when you and Tidbits get online here and keep giving reasons, no matter how reasonable they may be, for us to stop complaining, you are hurting the cause and frankly angering the people who want change.

Having said that, do you really have to wonder why some would resort to ugly, and admittedly immature, name calling.

So, I say to you, if you are happy with the (what I consider to be) extremely long waits to receive updates that the manufacturers have decided we need for our device, then good for you.  Enjoy our long wait.  But for the rest of us, who are NOT happy waiting, let us proceed with our fight for change, not matter how futile it might be.  At least we are trying!

Link me where I said you guys were complainers.  You are putting words in your mouth....  ON MULTIPLE occasion I said change the way you think.  For the past 6 years you have been doing what others have been doing.  It isn't working...  Why don't we try and do what Europe does as it seems to be working there... They are always getting what WE want...  There's is a difference between what I am telling you vs. telling you to stop complaining(which I have NEVER done).  I am trying to get you guys to change your way of thinking.

Like I said I would rather try something different if it looks like it is working...  We have 6 years worth of data showing what you guys are doing isn't working.  From the G1 to the any windows phone currently out.

Yes I am a windows phone user...  I said it before which devices I have own.  I see HTC and Motorola changing their tunes and update in a "timely" manner something Nokia can do as shown by them.  HTC even backed up their transparency and word by stating their next major update when Google releases it will happen within 90 days.  Now how can HTC do things like this and other manufacturers can't?  They even already showed how quickly they can get updates out on their previous device when they promised to do so.  So how can HTC make such claims and keep their word if big bad carriers control everything?

[MadDogFL62]

Hopefully there will be a Technical Preview of Windows Phone 10.  If so, Verizon could possibly start testing that ASAP - beating Cyan to the door with a whole new OS?

SMH Verizon.  October 1 makes Cyan 2.5 months or 10 weeks late.  Thank god for the Developer Preview(s).

You should be impressed Verizon; you are neck and neck with CRICKET in taking the longest to release Cyan.

Availability in North America - Nokia

[#21]

Your reading skills leave a lot to be desired.

[Quote]

You should be impressed Verizon; you are neck and neck with CRICKET in taking the longest to release Cyan.

Availability in North America - Nokia

[/quote]

Only AT&T out of major carriers in the US has released Cyan.

Constantly giving wrong information and then giving a link showing you are wrong. Now that's a hoot.

[rednibkram]

I know there are some who will not quite understand what you have posted here and try to twist it into something else, however I fully understand your point of view and totally agree with you.

I'm sure the point you are making is that AT&T and Verizon are the two largest phone companies in the United States.  T-Mobile and Sprint combined are equal to half of what Verizon is.  T-Mobile only has two WP devices, neither of which are a flagship device and Sprint only has one very old low-end Windows Phone.

AT&T has already upgraded ALL of their Windows Phones including the non-flagship devices.  While Verizon (the other largest phone company in the United States) hasn't been able to update a single Lumia device, one of which is one of Microsoft's top, high-end flagship device (the Lumia Icon).  If a MAJOR telephone company the size of Verizon can't devote enough time and energy into updating the firmware for two phones (as previously stated, one of which is one of Microsoft's top flagship devices), then I'd say that make Verizon look either extremely pitiful, terribly lazy, highly manipulative!  Either way, it's not a company I'm interested in doing business with.