Verizon Wireless and Surface Phone Revisited
dexman
Community Leader
Community Leader

Just restarting discussions about Verizon Wireless and Windows Mobile devices.

Currently, the Lumia 735 is the only Windows Phone left in Verizon Wireless's catalog.

With the HP Elite x3 following the path of the most recent Lumia models by being released as a GSM only device, I'm starting to get the feeling that the Surface Phone will also be released as a GSM only device. In one of my recent discussions on a disqus.com message board, another member posted that Microsoft does not have any CDMA coders on staff. Of course, I can't prove or disprove that, but if it is true, it would make a Surface Phone  for Verizon Wireless, Sprint and US Cellular all that more doubtful.

What I'm starting to think is going to happen is that Microsoft is going to not offer any new phones for VZW, Sprint and US Cellular until the carriers are off of their CDMA networks.

Do I hope to be proven wrong? Yes. But, I can't shake the feeling that the Surface Phone will be another lost cause for us.

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primortal
Master - Level 1

I highly doubt it's a "lack of CDMA coders".  The OS and device firmware already supports CDMA; proof is in the Lumia Icon and 735.

It's the pain VZW is putting Microsoft/HP through to get the devices certified.  From what I understand is it's not a cheap thing to do.

For now I'm done with VZW and I have my 950XL in hand and just waiting for my wife to go through her voice mails before I go to AT&T and switch later this week.

dexman
Community Leader
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I'm not sure that Verizon Wireless is the full culprit as there are other CDMA carriers like Sprint and US Cellular. Certify for CDMA and you should be good to go for each CDMA carrier.

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primortal
Master - Level 1

Then it's most likely that cost of certifying the device for CDMA which probably out ways the number of devices sold without carrier support; advertising.

Both the 950s and the HP Elite x3 have the CDMA antenna's and are capable, but CDMA is disabled in the firmware for some reason.

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dexman
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I remember Tidbits posting that the costs associated with CDMA certification are higher than GSM. I wish that Microsoft and other OEMs would flat out state their positions as it relates to Verizon Wireless. How much longer will VZW users....who would like to give a high end WM device a try....wait before switching carriers or platforms?

I know that rolling out CDMA variants won't catapult WM marketshare substantially, but, to see these companies rake such restrictive positions and then wonder out loud why sales figures continue to stagnate and contract is mind numbing.

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dexman
Community Leader
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Typo alert...'see these companies "take" such restrictive positions'.

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chodi
Enthusiast - Level 3

funny, a little over a year ago, I remember calling the 950 family nice but not a flag ship phone and was waiting for the surface phone to come out.  everyone jumped all over me, telling me I was crazy and it was only a rumor.

now the surface phone will be released in the coming weeks, my business will be buying one for me

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primortal
Master - Level 1

There's no way the Surface Phone will be released in coming weeks.  The latest rumor is Spring of 2017 with the release of Windows Mobile 10 (Redstone 2) which is rumored to be heavily focused on the mobile aspects of Windows 10.

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dexman
Community Leader
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I agree. I envision Microsoft rolling out the Surface Book 2, Surface Pro 5 and Surface Phone at a single event in April 2017.

There was a rumor going around not too long ago that Microsoft was working on a desktop computer that would also sport the Surface label. I haven't seen much more about it recently though.

I am a little bit sad to see the Surface 3 being retired with no successor. Sure, it doesn't lend itself well to gaming,  but, I enjoy using one as a daily driver while my SP3 is my powerhouse computer.

Sorry for my topic detour. Smiley Sad

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Jmthomas1987
Enthusiast - Level 2

From what I have seen and read about, it sounds like with the ridiculous process OEMs have to go through to get "certified" on CDMA, it is not a money making venture really unless you sell several hundred thousand units.

Basically they are getting extorted by Qualcom for licensing the hardware on each phone, and then they have to submit their phones to each CDMA carrier to let them dissect the units to then see if they will work with their particular hardware/backhaul setups.  Can't blame OEMs for dropping CDMA since it is a dying technology anyway.

Verizon seems to take the longest of the three from what I have read, plus even if you do get "certified", VZW seems to not want to provide any service after the sale for Windows phones.

Last time I went into a VZW store, I went through 4 reps, plus a field tech before finding someone who knew ANYTHING about Windows phones.  Most looked at me like I was talking Martian or something. Now I just buy on-line and cut out any middle-men.

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Ann154
Community Leader
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If it is such a "ridiculous process" why is Apple, Motorola, Samsung, Google and other manufacturers getting their devices certified by the FCC for the CDMA radios used by Verizon Wireless and a few other carriers?

I'm most definitely NOT a VZW employee. If a post answered your question, please mark it as the answer.

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primortal
Master - Level 1

Ann154 I think you're missing the key point

jmthomas87 wrote:

From what I have seen and read about, it sounds like with the ridiculous process OEMs have to go through to get "certified" on CDMA, it is not a money making venture really unless you sell several hundred thousand units.

Apple knows they can sell million of devices so the cost is worth it.  Plus I bet the carriers are confident that the devices would work so don't scrutinize them as much as an unknown devices.

Ann154
Community Leader
Community Leader

I noticed you didn't address the other manufacturers that have universal devices that work on Verizon Wireless and likely sold a lot less than Apple devices.

I'm most definitely NOT a VZW employee. If a post answered your question, please mark it as the answer.

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primortal
Master - Level 1

Like Android?  Same thing, they probably sell more units (because of advertising) than Windows Mobile.

You have to ask yourself why would Microsoft and HP not configure their devices to work on VZW where the devices can be sold unlocked.  It's either there's a cost issue or VZW has [removed] off Microsoft that much that they don't care anymore about getting their devices to VZW customers.

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dexman
Community Leader
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Now I am seeing reports that Microsoft will be halting production of Lumia phones come this December.

If this is true, then, Verizon Wireless will have no Windows Mobile phones come 1/1/17...unless...another OEM steps up to the plate.

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TIMNEW93
Enthusiast - Level 3

Any thoughts on what to do next if you are a Windows phone user?  I re-upped last year with the 735 (which I like, by the way), but it is looking more and more like there won't be anything comparable anytime soon.  One thing you don't hear about a lot is that Lumia phones were very nice phones for the money, aside from doing a great job of linking up with Microsoft's Office suite and other products.  Looking through Verizon's phone line-up now it's mostly high end handsets.  I feel like no matter what I do, I will be taking a quite a step downward unless I fork over big bucks (enough to buy a pretty decent desktop), not to mention having to switch to Android or Apple.  Any thoughts?  Anybody tried switching to AT&T for a 950?

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dexman
Community Leader
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User Tidbits has a 950.

Based on what HP has done with the x3...making a GSM only variant...and the limited approach that Microsoft took with the Lumias...am now of the impression that there will be no new Windows Mobile phones for VZW customers until VZW has its next generation network up and running around 2019.

HP and Microsoft don't seem to want to spend the money for CDMA certification and licensing at this point and when the Surface Phone does make an appearance, it too could very well likely be GSM only.

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mama23dogs
Legend

I'm with AT&T we have quite a few 950 and self purchased 950 XL on the network.  Still have a bunch of other low budget windows phones as well 640 and 650 as well as unlocked GSM only.   There are also plenty of windows available for those who go unlocked (GSM only)

As pointed out earlier, getting past the FCC with CDMA is a hurdle some get tired of trying to get over.

If any of you heard of the Nextbit Robin, it was a start up that was supposed to have a CDMA version.  They held up the GSM version a few months.  Eventually they gave up on the FCC and scrapped the CDMA and refunded downpayments. 

Without more support Windows may have a lot in common with the dodo bird And blackberry.

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