When will Windows Phone 8.1 and Cyan Update be released? (Update)

[T_Williams]

T-Mobile and AT&T are making progress, but not a word from Verizon Wireless.  What's Up?

[primortal]

rcschnoor wrote:

primortal wrote:

A little off topic, this grudge with Microsoft about the failed Microsoft Kin was entirely VZW fault and not Microsoft's.  Microsoft wanted a custom data plan for Kin and VZW insisted at the time of $30 data plan on top of the $40 voice plan.  So basically if failed because of cost of VZW own doing.

This is not completely true. While I have no way of knowing if Microsoft wanted a custom data plan for the Kin device, Verizon DID NOT require any users to have a data plan for it.

Hmm, I read differently, Microsoft defends Kin data plans — does it have a point? | Unfiltered  Unless you can point me to another article that states otherwise; just to get my facts straight

[rcschnoor]

It appears only the Kin Onem and Kin Twom did not require a data plan.

Kin Two Data

[primortal]

So we're both half right

[47seijar]

Personally, I don't think the Kin phone should be used as an example of ANYthing, except maybe how to fail.

[Tearunner]

Quite the ego you have there.  I addressed you on the points where you were wrong and relevant qualifiers as needed but overall, the message was to everyone.

This response is for you directly, Elector.  You are wrong.  If a Verizon update bricks your phone and makes it unusable, it is called "destruction of property."  Destruction of property is law.  No, you will not find that in your contract. You will notice their comments on the subject only apply to third party software you install.  Verizon is not responsible for third party updates which I said is the case with the Developer Preview update.  They are, however, responsible for their own updates and the damage it may cause to your property. If a Verizon delivered update disables your phone, they have to make you whole again.

The 8.1 update is delivered and installed by Verizon.  As such, it falls under their responsibility if it should disable your phone, not Microsoft.  Verizon's liabilities caused by the update is between Verizon and Microsoft not Verizon and the customer.  That could be changed if Verizon allowed Microsoft to deliver their updates directly.  Currently, this is not the case and Verizon is, in fact, 100% responsible for any damage updates delivered by Verizon may cause.

[#7]

Customer Agreement | Verizon Wireless

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES

We make no representations or warranties, express or implied, including, to the extent permitted by applicable law, any implied warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose, about your Service, your wireless device, or any applications you access through your wireless device. We do not warrant that your wireless device will work perfectly or will not need occasional upgrades or modifications, or that it will not be negatively affected by network–related modifications, upgrades or similar activity. If you download or use applications, services or software provided by third parties (including voice applications), 911 or E911, or other calling functionality, may work differently than services offered by us, or may not work at all. Please review all terms and conditions of such third–party products.Verizon Wireless is not responsible for any third–party information, content, applications or services you access, download or use on your device. You are responsible for maintaining virus and other Internet security protections when accessing these third–party products or services. For additional information, visit the Verizon Content Policy at responsibility.verizon.com/contentpolicy

Please be aware that if you activated your wireless device through our Open Development program, we can't vouch for the device's call quality or overall functionality.

Again Verizon has nothing to do with any update from any device maker or operating system design company.

Please know the difference. Verizon wireless makes no devices or operating systems and as a courtesy pushes out updates. They test only for interoperability on their networks.

You beef is solely with Microsoft and the device maker.

Please take Verizon to court and let me know when your case comes up so I can look at the outcome.

No ego involved. I know what is right and what is wrong.

[rednibkram]

" including, to the extent permitted by applicable law,  Apparently you don't know what this line means.  Verizon cannot contractually exclude themselves from Federal, State and local laws.  Federal law mandates that if Verizon updates my device that I have paid for and that update causes problems, they can be held  responsible for the "damage" and "interruption of service" and therefore are legally obligated to return me to full functionality, contract or no contract.

[#9]

Produce the Federal Law that states you are entitled to a new phone if a update made by the OS company be it Microsoft, Google or Apple and then sent to the device makers (Except Apple which does all their own updates) who then tailor it to their individual devices and add carrier crap before its sent to the carriers to be updated over the air.

Verizon did not touch the base code. and re-read

We do not warrant that your wireless device will work perfectly or will not need occasional upgrades or modifications, or that it will not be negatively affected by network–related modifications, upgrades or similar activity

again produce the law that states Verizon has to give you a new device. in fact that device could have been purchased at any retailer. So now you are going to say Best Buy, Walmart, Targets, radio Shack who sold it now must give you a new device?

They have 15 day return guarantees. But nice try on your part.

[rednibkram]

If you purchased a car from a dealer and that dealer states that there is a "recall" on your car and certain  parts need to be replaced and in the process they messed up something that caused the brakes not to work.  Would you think that dealer was not responsible for fixing your car?  Same principal.  As for which law cover that, look it up or call the BBB.

[rcschnoor]

rednibkram wrote:

If you purchased a car from a dealer and that dealer states that there is a "recall" on your car and certain  parts need to be replaced and in the process they messed up something that caused the brakes not to work.  Would you think that dealer was not responsible for fixing your car?  Same principal.

Not exactly the same principal. That new car dealer has the NAME BRAND of car on the name of the dealership. For example, the dealership is a Ford Dealership, Chevy Dealership, Toyota Dealership, etc... and you can take your car to ANY Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc... dealership to have that "recall" fixed. You don't have to bring it back to the SAME dealership for warranty work.

With cellular phones, however, it is NOT an Apple, HTC, Motorola, LG, etc... dealership. It is a Verizon Wireless dealership. You CANNOT bring your iPhone purchased at a Verizon Wireless store for warranty work to an AT&T store. THAT would be the "same principal". They BOTH sell new iPhones from the same manufacturer. If it were the "same principal", you would be able to get warranty work OR "recall" work done at either store regardless where you made the purchase.

[#12]

Car analogies don't pertain to cell phones.

Verizon is the highway the car (phone) drives on.

If your car loses its brakes you don't blame the highway (Verizon) for faulty brakes.

You bring it back to the dealer (maker of the phone) for warranty service.

You don't bring it to the highway department because you use the road (Verizon Wireless)

Nice try though. Keep on trying.

Good Luck

[OldPirate]

I don't really wish to blame anyone.  I just want 8.1 to show up for download on my phone.  That's all I ask.

As far as Verizon's role..well......they sold me this phone as the "top of the line Window's phone with a new OS release that is eminent."

So they do have some responsibility I would think to make sure that any updates to the phone they sold me by the manufacturer or firmware provider get to me as quickly as possible.  That was part of the deal as I understood it.

I don't want to fuss.  I just want them to pass the updates through.  I really do wish the rules concerning "bloat ware" on computers applied to telephones.  I spend time at the purchase of each phone taking everything off except the OS and firmware and then putting on the programs I want.  After all, it is my phone, and no one else's when I buy it.

If those rules applied something tells me that firmware and OS updates would flow pretty fast.

I get good service from Verizon so all I want and politely ask for is to update my Windows equipment with the same sense of urgency you did when I used Apple products through your system.  After using Windows 8 in conjunction with all my other Windows 8.1 devices I'll probably never go back to Android or Apple, but one should never say, "never".

But for the next few years I'd think every phone carrier would see the wisdom of making sure their Windows phones were current because I think that 800 pound Gorilla has found the phone room and is stirring around.

[#14]

My personal opinion, there should be no promises of any updates.

The cellular providers push them out as needed. However like Apple devices no carrier should do any updating.

The problem as I am reading in your post is you are equating Verizon the retailer as being responsible to update what they sold. There is no reason to expect that. Other retailers sell the devices Walmart, Best Buy, Target, Radio Shack or sears etc. They are not going to update your device.

Verizon is not obligated to update anything. The device makers should do that themselves and should push to get the carriers out of these crazy updates.

A good case outside of Apple is HTC. When I owned the HTC One I updated from the web site. This I strongly believe should be for all devices.

And I agree, no crapware should be placed on any device you the customer pays for. Remember Verizon and others are not giving you anything so on your device they should place nothing on it adware or crapware wise.

Good Luck

[OldPirate]

Not that simple.

Sony continuously updates the firmware in the cameras I bought from them.  I have to go on their web site, but it is there.  One of them 7 times since I bought it and each time the camera experience is improved.

Ford/Lincoln updates the Microsoft Sych system a few times each year.  Not a Ford product, but came on the Ford/Lincoln car.  Exactly the same as the OS and firmware came on the Nokia phone Verizon sold me.

My Passat navigation and sync system is updated regularly too.  Not sure who wrote their software, but it was not done by Volkswagen and yet Volkswagen makes sure I get those updates just like Lincoln does with my wife's car.

So if Verizon really wanted me to get the best out of the phone they sold me they will make sure I get all the updates as they roll out.  The same way Lincoln and Volkswagen seem to want to do.  In this day and time of firmware updates that seems only common sense and reasonable expectations.  How many updates does one get from a Blue Ray players or even devices with Netflix built in?

Microsoft put an option in Windows 8.1 that lets you bypass the carrier for future updates, so it'll be interesting to see if Verizon leaves it in or takes it out.

Out of curiosity I went to my local Verizon store at lunch and asked about the update.  The first one didn't know what I was talking about and the second one although very nice read off of his computer that the update was just released on August 4th not mid July as I was telling him.

I then asked him if what he was looking at was WindowsPhone 8.1 or WindowsPhone 8.1 update and of course it was the latter.

He then said..."if they are already updating the release then certainly you should have it any day."

I guess ignorance is bliss for phone salesmen or else they would be always be conflicted by knowing what was coming versus selling what is on their shelves today.  In a fast changing world that could be a real problem, but for the consumer it becomes important to know that when firmware improvements are available that they are assured it will be coming relatively quickly.

[#16]

Car analogies are not always the best to use when speaking of cellular devices.

My new car gets updates to the uconnect system however it is subscription based for the traffic avoider and the weather alerts of which I don't really need.

As you have said the makers should just use that web based updates since it really is their products.

Verizon makes nothing but money.

My Bluetooth devices update over the web, my sony tablet is updated by Sony over the air through WiFi and the basic premise is I strongly believe this is the way it should be done for devices used on cellular carriers.

It should not be a yell and scream and threaten process to blame the carriers for these updates.

As I said previously I strongly believe this update or upgrade process should be made available over the web from the device makers themselves, and not from any carrier. Maybe in the future this will be done.

Until then it is just a waiting game.

[Tidbits]

Yes but then people believe since they sign a 2 year contract the carrier should be liable for everything that goes wrong. One of the main reasons why if it were me I would want to look at things prior to release of anything. My neck is on the line not theirs.

Look at Europe says a lot right there. They blame manufacturers regardless if they sign a contract or not. Look how often they get updates. Also their ITU is less strict than FCC testing(I been through the process for both at my job).

[#18]

Customers have a two fold misconception.

1) Verizon just sells cellular and data services for the device to access the network

2) Verizon acts as a retailer just like Walmart, Best Buy, Target, Radio Shack or Costco etc.

However customers believe that being the cellular provider entitles them to get updates as a right when in fact it is done as a courtesy and even warranty service is done as a courtesy. If the customers were to read the device inserts the warranty is not Verizon's or any carriers responsibility.

In the second state as a retailer just like Walmart etc. These retailers have a 15 days return policy. After that you deal with the device maker. As it states in the written warranty. Again selling the devices does not equate to warranty or device updates from the carriers. But people still he and haw  and threaten the carriers.

Which only provide you with access to the cellular and data networks. Not repairs, not updates period.

That is what really gets my temper going. The anger is from customers directed to the wrong place.

And if you buy any device from Walmart or Target etc. They don't update or repair your phones then why should?d Verizon and the other carriers.

None of this loyal customer crap. You pay for connection to the network. That's it.

Good Luck

[Tidbits]

That's exactly what I was pointing at.  There's a misconception people have.  you just explained it better.

[Tidbits]

wanted to add... AT&T and T-Mobile making progress...  There's a lot of people still complaining on their respective forums as to why they don't get their updates.

[#21]

Consumer Publications Library | FCC.gov

There are no Federal Laws on updates to your device nor that the carrier has to replace the device.

Nice try though..still waiting for that Federal statute.

[rednibkram]

Thanks for the backup primortal.