Who wants a premier offer for WP10?ie Lumia 950,950xl

[WP10_950xl]

I have owned and absolutely loved my Lumia 822 and now my Lumia 735. I have been waiting wit bated breathe for the Lumia 950 xl. I figure if the phones that I have been using for the last 2 1/2 years are considered mid level, then high end has to be off the hook. Now I read that VERIZON may not support a flagship WP 10 at all. If that is the case I would seriously consider switching carriers.

[Timlovesbikes]

This poll!

https://community.verizonwireless.com/polls/1426?sr=inbox&ru=1759613

[lolguy]

We've been customers since NYNEX.  With four off contract Apple 5s's, we've made the decision to move to a Win10 phone and were hoping to do so with the Lumia 950.  The camera and the integration with our other Windows devices are the key drivers.  I'm hoping all this faff will resolve itself but if not, we'll be moving to AT&T.

[dexman]

For Verizon Wireless customers...the 950 & 950XL are lost causes. They will only work on GSM networks such as at&t and T-Mobile.

The next chance we have for a high end Windows Mobile device will come with the rollout of what is expected to be Surface Phone...which should be the first phones wholly designed by Microsoft.

[ChuckWes]

This is now on the MS Store pages for the 950 and 950 XL Unlocked. I see WCDMA in the list of Networks, doesn't that mean they will work on VZ?

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Microsoft-Lumia-950--Unlocked/productID.32660260...

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.326602300?icid=icid_us_catp_modg_phn_c...

Networks⁷

GSM network: 850MHz, 900MHz, 1800MHz, 1900MHz
GSM max data speed DL: EGPRS 296.0kbps
GSM max data speed UL: EGPRS 236.8kbps
WCDMA network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 8 (900MHz)
WCDMA max data speed DL: 42.2Mbps (Cat 24)
WCDMA max data speed UL: 5.76Mbps (Cat 6)
LTE FDD network: Band 1 (2100MHz), Band 17 (700MHz), Band 2 (1900MHz), Band 20 (800MHz), Band 3 (1800MHz), Band 4 (1700/2100 MHz), Band 5 (850MHz), Band 7 (2600MHz), Band 8 (900MHz), Band 28 (700MHz), Band 12 (700MHz)
TD-LTE network: Band 38 (2570-2620MHz), Band 40 (2300-2400MHz), Band 41 partially (2555-2575 MHz)
LTE max data speed DL: 300 Mbps (Cat 6)
LTE max data speed UL: 50 Mbps (Cat 6)

[Tidbits]

WCDMA IS NOT CDMA!  It is a GSM line of upgrade. EVDO is in direct relation to CDMA.

http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-cdma-and-wcdma/

[Tidbits]

Sorry if that came out strong but the tech are different I had the emphasise that. So people don't get confused.

There is support for 2 of the 4 700 bands but not the one that gives block C protection. That band is 13 not 12 and 28. It doesn't support CDMA or EVDO. So that's why it will not work on Verizon. Verizon isn't blocking it. If there is support then Verizon would be blocking it and the device would get protection in which Verizon can and will get in trouble for violating block C rules. It happened before. FCC is serious about these rules and eventually all major carriers will get spectrum with these rules which makes better competition for our market.

[Geminiman]

One last time for everyone. Please refer people that continue this thread endlessly because they're to lazy to read to this:

1. The 950 and 950xl are both hardware capable of CDMA and Band 13 required for Verizon. I.e. there is absolutely nothing physically preventing them from working on Verizon or Sprint's network. Not radios, not base-bands not antennas.

2. Microsoft has actively disabled both in firmware.

3. If Microsoft didn't disable both, Verizon would be forced to support the phone as they did with the Nexus google phones because of regulations to do with their winning the bid for Band 13 in the first place and their inability to register someone on their network for ONLY band 13.  This isn't speculation, they lost a lawsuit regarding this which is why the 5x and 6p are immediately able to work on Verizon. (do a google search)

These are the facts of the situation.  Now, reading between the lines:

Microsoft disabled CDMA and Band 13 in a bid to play nice with Verizon and not piss them off in the future probably because of a threat from Verizon that said that if MS released them unlocked and able to work on Verizon's network Verizon would never sell a Microsoft phone in their stores again.

What MS should have done:

Microsoft should have released the phones unlocked and all carrier ready. They should have told them all to either get on board or tough luck. Worst case, Sprint would have been left out but it wouldn't have mattered. They then should have created a consumer financing option and done the same for their Open Licence businesses with leasing options like they just did for Surface devices.  If they'd created the plan intelligently they would have had massive business sign up at the very least because of business being able to buy a complete stack (tablet/laptop + Phone + Office 365 etc.) all from Microsoft at one reasonable price.

The reality in the market is such that carriers (especially Verizon) isn't subsidizing phones. They're charging more and then leasing them at massive profits.  The age of the carrier mattering in cell phone sales is almost gone. They are effectively a dumb pipe now. Microsoft could have and should have recognized this and gotten ahead of the curve. This was the way they could have gotten back in the game especially in the business market.

But they blew the opportunity. Sad.

There is absolutely nothing else to this. Verizon bullied MS and MS capitulated. Nothing else.

[Tidbits]

JohnGalt1717 wrote:

One last time for everyone. Please refer people that continue this thread endlessly because they're to lazy to read to this:

1. The 950 and 950xl are both hardware capable of CDMA and Band 13 required for Verizon. I.e. there is absolutely nothing physically preventing them from working on Verizon or Sprint's network. Not radios, not base-bands not antennas.

2. Microsoft has actively disabled both in firmware.

3. If Microsoft didn't disable both, Verizon would be forced to support the phone as they did with the Nexus google phones because of regulations to do with their winning the bid for Band 13 in the first place and their inability to register someone on their network for ONLY band 13.  This isn't speculation, they lost a lawsuit regarding this which is why the 5x and 6p are immediately able to work on Verizon. (do a google search)

These are the facts of the situation.  Now, reading between the lines:

Microsoft disabled CDMA and Band 13 in a bid to play nice with Verizon and not **** them off in the future probably because of a threat from Verizon that said that if MS released them unlocked and able to work on Verizon's network Verizon would never sell a Microsoft phone in their stores again.

What MS should have done:

Microsoft should have released the phones unlocked and all carrier ready. They should have told them all to either get on board or tough luck. Worst case, Sprint would have been left out but it wouldn't have mattered. They then should have created a consumer financing option and done the same for their Open Licence businesses with leasing options like they just did for Surface devices.  If they'd created the plan intelligently they would have had massive business sign up at the very least because of business being able to buy a complete stack (tablet/laptop + Phone + Office 365 etc.) all from Microsoft at one reasonable price.

The reality in the market is such that carriers (especially Verizon) isn't subsidizing phones. They're charging more and then leasing them at massive profits.  The age of the carrier mattering in cell phone sales is almost gone. They are effectively a dumb pipe now. Microsoft could have and should have recognized this and gotten ahead of the curve. This was the way they could have gotten back in the game especially in the business market.

But they blew the opportunity. Sad.

There is absolutely nothing else to this. Verizon bullied MS and MS capitulated. Nothing else.

Proof of this?  If this is true then it violates block C, and Verizon could get into trouble for it even if MS dropped support on their own.  I bet Verizon said no such thing and it was pure speculation that got pushed out there like all the other rumors and speculations that happens the ones that push out the most emotions is what gets believed the most.

You can also read between the lines as CDMA licensing cost a pretty penny(Everyone has to pay Qualcomm) and since they didn't want to spend the money they decided to go small with the 950 just to showcase Windows 10 this year with their next phone being  "What Microsoft should have done" as their next set of devices would be under... Surface branding...  Microsoft already said they are starting small with the 950/XL as limited markets and carriers, and they have a long term plan for the future. 

[dexman]

Slight topic detour...I just checked out Microsoft's Community Forums. The Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 are having issues out of the gate...especially the Surface Book.

Not good news. Hopefully this doesn't portend problems for the 950's...even though they are not available to us VZW customers.

[Tidbits]

I think it has more to do with people who already have a surface are not going to buy the new ones. They'll wait at least a year more. Only diehard fanatics will buy them every time they come out with a new one. Some people are probably waiting for sales because Black Friday is around the corner.

[dexman]

I thought Apple had a lock on diehards. People camping out in front of Apple stores, lines snaking around blocks...wristbands...just to buy an iPhone on the first day it becomes available.

[Tidbits]

That's for the iPhone. They don't do that for the iPads and other Apple products.  I feel sales will be better for the 950 and 950 XL than the surfaces. With the surfaces I expect people to buy a new one every 2-3 years for most of the customers. Phones a little different story.

[dexman]

I think the first few iterations of the iPad drew large crowds. Now that the replacement cycle is 3+ years, crowds have thinned. That plus the iPad hasn't offered any earth shaking year over year improvements for a while. Curious to see what happens on the first day for the iPad Pro.

[Tidbits]

Diehards will buy it and that's about it. Sales will be good but flat. Some people ready to upgrade will probably get it, and new adopters.

[robert5050]

dexman wrote:

Slight topic detour...I just checked out Microsoft's Community Forums. The Surface Book and Surface Pro 4 are having issues out of the gate...especially the Surface Book.

Not good news. Hopefully this doesn't portend problems for the 950's...even though they are not available to us VZW customers.

You've got to be kidding me?  You can go to any website such as Apple's own user forms and find tons of users with tons of issues with Apple products.  It doesn't mean the product is bad.  I was using a Surface Book all day today with out any issues, it's an awesome machine.

And, then you try to attach some other problems to a totally different product?  I think you went way off topic on this one.

[dexman]

I mentioned in my post that it was a side topic.

While Apple products do have bugs, the company's reputation is able to weather such problems. Sales of iPhones continue to be brisk despite a constant stream of buggy iOS releases. iOS 9 has been particularly bad with Apple pumping out patches and updates at breakneck speed. Few people seem to remember how bad iOS 8.0.1 was. It had a lifespan measured in hours. Yet Apple continues to grow and rake in money.

Microsoft isn't in that position. Outside of the commercial world it has a comparitively small presence...noting the number of iOS and Android phones and tablets out there.

The media tends to be more crirical of Microsoft than Apple. The company is known as a software company and due to past poor showings with older Windows OS releases and the early attempt at a tablet device running XP, new releases need to be well vetted before hitting the market.

Microsoft will get the freezing and color shifting problems currently being experienced by Book and Pro 4 users ironed out. But negative press hurts Microsoft more than it does Apple.

[NolMac]

I do wish Microsoft would get a bigger market share in the mobile industry. Not Apple big with what they tried to do with the X1. That would affect developers to start putting apps on Windows 10. Surface pro tablet market share does affect the 950s. They run the same OS and have the same App Store. As someone with a surface pro 3. My 3 does everything I need. Replaceable battery is what I want in the surface pro. One of my big knocks on Apple and now starting again with Android devices.

[dexman]

It's a catch-22 situation. Fewer apps...despite having a large list of native programs...means fewer devices sold. Fewer devices sold means fewer people will develop apps.

Quickly back to the side note...it looks like a bad run of Surface Books got out. People reporting freezing and display issues while other people say that their Books are fine. Microsoft is starting to replace defective units.

[primortal]

Quality issues are a given for such a quick manufacturing process....  It's not just a Microsoft specific issue.

[ShadowRider]

When people compare the number of apps available on each platform it would be nice to weed out the chaff.  How many different apps for telling time.  Games are essentially unnecessary to me on my phone.  Then you get down to productivity and there's not the disparity.  Chase banking is available on Android and iOS, but not on Windows anymore.  That's the type of disparity that's significant, not the number of games, flashlights, etc.

[Tidbits]

Be as it may logic should win, but people don't see it that way. Most people see it as...

100K apps

Vs

1MM apps

What has the best chance of me getting what I want or what I am looking for.

Personally I am a modest guy. I use 50 apps on iOS and Android. 37 of them not found on Windows Phones. My most used games(I love old school Final Fantasy games) are not there but that doesn't bother me at all as I play it at home during my leisure hours. If I had 1/2 the missing apps I would be 100% on Windows phone. I recommend Windows Phones to friends but some apps they see their friends running and they don't see it they want iOS or Android.

This is the reason why MS is trying to find easier ways for devs to port their apps. It little resources are needed and it does well then apps will be there. Normal people are not as patient as I am.