Verizon says iPhone is unlocked, still rejects SIM cards

[Hashrocket]

Yeah, I guess I can see how you'd think that. To clarify my opinion, I think that #3 can't modify the permise of the agreement. If it could, contracts and laws would be written much more tersely. For example, the other day I was arguing with Bontarest about who holds right of way at a crosswalk near an uncontrolled four-way intersection. I checked Wisconsin's statute, and it had a very long-winded description of pedestrian, including a person who is walking, a person who is riding a bicycle and using sidewalks and crosswalks in a manner consistent with a person who is walking, and a person who is using an assistive mobility device. The reason it states this (I would assume - I am not a lawyer nor lawmaker) is because if it only said "person who is walking", motorists would smash every single person they see in a wheelchair because they're not walking. Their feet aren't touching the ground. They're not even ambulatory for Pete's sake, or they wouldn't be in a wheelchair, now would they?

There's certainly ambiguity in the contract, and I'll grant you that in a heartbeat. But, I can turn the ambiguity back on Verizon - why didn't they say I can use a different foreign SIM from a different foreign carrier, and only when I am located in a foreign country?

I've already filed with the BBB and I was just posting this here in case other forum members are interested. But as an example of how I'll clarify my point if Verizon doesn't wish to unlock my phone at that point, I would cite Civil Code 1644 as demonstrating that "other SIM card" is understood to not carry any restrictions with it, and Civil Code 1645 as stating that "unlock" is a technical term and is to be understood as it would be by someone in the profession, and many Verizon CSRs have admitted they aren't familiar with GSM technology.

Two different lawyers can argue about anything for years on end, but when lawyers argue over the color of the sky, a judge can step in and say "It's blue, you idiots". I think that when the contract is taken as a whole, it's obvious what the terms mean and I'm willing and planning to take this all the way. And even if I do end up losing, I was still led to believe that the phone would be unlocked, and since it was misrepresented to me as such, I'll just sever ties with Verizon and cut my losses at that point.

[Tidbits]

It has already happened in NY and in FL. Both lost to Verizon... Maybe you'll be lucky in your state.

[Hashrocket]

Can you link me to those rulings, or do you know the name of the parties? I'd be really interested in reading the case.

[Tidbits]

I don't remember but they were recent(within the last 3 years). The New York Case was about the Droid 3 not working on AT&T and a BB world phone on Verizon which was much older and that one was in florida. I can see if I can find them. I know the policy since I travel and I used to only buy unbranded world phones before switching to Verizon(long story).

[Tidbits]

Their policy has ALWAYS been international use and no domestic use other than on Verizon.  Still looking up everything and trying to find the cases.

[bontarest]

Their policy has not always been for international use and no domestic SIMs because the policy I agreed to states:

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"Once unlocked, You may insert another wireless carrier's SIM Card (Other SIM Card) into the Global Phone to obtain service from that carrier."

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If Verizon Wireless tells their customers that have agreed to the same policy that is now in my contract, my father's contract, and Hashrocket's contract that the policy is for international use and no domestic use they are either misinformed or just plain wrong. Regardless of which it is its their responsibly to know their current policy and also know (or lookup) the current customer version of the policy at the time it was agreed to unless had been properly updated to the current.

In the policy which I agreed to it states that (in my words so I do not have to keep quoting) that:

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My phone comes with a SIM which could be used for service, but first needs to be unlocked by use of a code. Once unlocked I can insert another companies SIM card to obtain service. Verizon will provide unlock code upon request but are subject to the following:

1          If I am not using Verizon I am responsible for the costs not Verizon.

2          I am responsible for the use and risk that come with using another providers SIM card, I would have to agree to that providers terms and whatnot and again Verizon is NOT responsible.

3          Even that if I am outside the US I still have to follow the contract that I signed with Verizon and foreign laws if they are applicable, aka you better still pay use when use another providers SIM.

4          I agree that these terms are now part of my contract with Verizon Wireless.

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**Again the above is in my own words based on the policy I agreed to with Verizon, if you want to view the full policy in Verizon's words view Hashrocket's original positing.**

Now in my policy it does not say that I can not use domestic SIMs or it has to be used international only. It does not say that I have to select from a pre-set list of carriers that Verizon has deals with nothing of the sort.

Based on the policy, if I wanted to put in a AT&T SIM in the phone I can, and I could also get service. I just have to continue to pay my Verizon bill as agreed. This is exactly what I can not do.

As some are stating file a lawsuit, that is a step that may need to be taken but for now we are waiting for Verizon Legal to give us a call, as a CSR said he was setting up a call-back. We wanted to post the story of 3 different account holders struggle to get Verizon to follow the policy that they set forth.

[Tidbits]

Just do it... Why wait? Seriously people love to argue semantics...

[enkaskal]

@hashrocket @bontarest i'm very interested in this as i recently ran into the same 10mo unlock for intl only. i was shocked when the rep told me that on the phone after requesting an unlock. have either of you (or anybody else for that matter) made any progress on this front?

[Hashrocket]

Going through the BBB still. Verizon keeps replying with the exact same letter and the BBB keeps marking the same complaint as replied to. Pretty childish, actually.

PagePlus is a virtual operator who uses Verizon's network. You'll be able to take your phone over to them no problem if you want to break your contract with Verizon. $55 / month gets you unlimited talk, text, and 1GB of data.

[enkaskal]

wow, fast reply; much appreciated

actually, i have no desire nor intent to break my contract with vzw. i'd just like to be able to purchase prepaid sim chips from other providers with data to perform testing on and from another network.

also, i've never used bbb's website before just now and i have to say it's hard to find your complaint(s). would you be so kind as to point a n00b in the right direction?