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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
Tidbits
Sr. Leader

mikedamirault wrote:

Tidbits wrote:

Not exactly, Google Talk (GTalk) is more comparable to something like Yahoo Messenger, MSN Messenger, AIM, and even ICQ, as a matter of fact, it's not really that it's comparable, it's that it's part of the same family, GTalk is a messenger (which seems to be AIM based in my experience), now I have not used GTalk lately (though sometimes I use it on the Gmail webmail interface), though I have not personally seen videochat capabilities on GTalk, though I could see an Android device (with front facing camera) having videochat services through GTalk, but it's more like Yahoo Messenger's videochat service

 So just because Google Talk can do more than Facetime it doesn't count?  There is NO difference between the two.  You don't have use the messanger portion if you chose not to.  Gtalk is nothing more than Facetime + iMessager with the added bonus you don't have two seperate apps to do it and it's not iDevice specific.

Facetime on the other hand is more related to Tango, Facetime isn't a messenger, and doesn't have messenger related features (for example, it doesn't support text chat, which is what a messenger is), Facetime videochat is more of a videophone than it is videochat, and can be accessed through contacts, or in the middle of a phone call (something GTalk can't do)

Yes it can be accessed through contacts, and there is even a green bubble letting you know when a user in on Gtalk or available :smileyhappy:

While both Facetime and GTalk may support videochat, that is where the similarities end, they both work very differently

 There is no difference imo.  As I stated above Gtalk = FaceTime + imessenger.

That said, Facetime and GTalk operate VERY differently, GTalk uses a messenger contact format (known as a buddy list), and contacts are added by an email or messenger ID, Facetime uses the iPhone's contact list, and a Facetime call is activated similar to how you would call somebody normally, not to mention, you can start a Facetime chat by simply using the other party's iPhone number (phone number that is), assuming you are Facetiming another iPhone, and not an iPod touch, iPad, or a Mac running OS X Snow Leopard and up, GTalk can't start a videochat using only the Android's phone number

 They operate the same.  See above.  It only "looks" differently, but if you really understand how facetime works.  I could go on and explain to you how it works.  Just keep in mind iMessenger, and Facetime uses AOL gateways...  Much like iChat on OSX does.

 

But that doesn't mean that it's always the manufacturer's or OS developer's fault, sometimes it is the carrier's fault

If you been in the industry you will know.  Most people only go by perception and I have told you countless times.  People will complain to the person closest and most easiest to contact.  Which is easier finding the number of a manufacturer or dialling 611 on your handset? 

For example, I have had signal issues with Verizon for a really long time (getting the message "searching" isn't uncommon), now there are some places where the signal is perfect, but for the most part, in places I really need a cell phone, I tend to get horrible service (and oddly enough, AT&T seems to work fine in the same areas), every time I have told people about my signal issues, they always tell me that it must be the phone (hardware), and that I should take it in to get it checked, and possibly replaced, problem is, I have been through four different phones, all of which I have had the same experience with, if I have the same problem with four different phones, that rules out a hardware problem (of course it is possible that I have gotten 4 faulty phones in a row, but what are the odds of getting 4 phones in a row with the same exact problem?  I have higher odds of winning the lottery 5 times in a row), So in that case, in this example, I am going to point my finger at Verizon, who else would I blame?

 There's a difference between services and a device...  You had a PROBLEM with services and NOT the device then Verizon is the one you are talking to.  If you had a problem with the Device it's ALWAYS the manufacturer you'd need to talk to get any resolution.  Like I said if you had a problem with your Xbox who do you go to?  GameStop or Microsoft?

 

How about this?  Let's take the PNC app for example, the app is free (meaning there is no charge to download the app), I have free checking (or at least had free checking, but that's unrelated), I do not pay the bank a cent, they just hold the money I deposit into my account, and their app has no ads

Like I said read your terms ALL of it.  If you know how banks works... They make MILLIONS off of your deposits by reinvesting what you give them into stocks, bonds and loan them to other people and collect interest.  They marginally give you 1-2% when they average around 12-13% return on millions of dollars.  In those terms which you still haven't read.  There is an exclusive deal where your bank pays to have their apps in there WITHOUT advertisements. 

There is no doubt that Apple is being paid in some way shape or form for that app, I agree with you there, this comes out of the BANKS pocket (or at least the pockets of those that pay monthly for their accounts), not a cent is coming out of MY pocket (and if there is, tell me how Apple got my money), you said that the money is coming out of MY pocket

 You are paying for it in one form or another.  They are making money OFF you past the point of initial sale, and I assure you  that you do more than download 1 banking app.  You have at least downloaded a few games or a few other types of apps here and there.  Which you probably didn't read the terms and conditions and probably on 2-3 databases.

My point, while someone may have paid for that update, it's not neccessarally out of MY pocket

 Do you understand what a database is?  Do you know database data can be "rented"? Did you know Apple has a lot of your data which most people can "opt out", but they still can sell off that data of the user? I am just pointing out you gave up something beyond what you think.  Seriously iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch users pay for the updates of their devices. 

It all depends on who made the app, what the app is for, how much you pay for the services for the given app (or if they are free services), if the app has ads or not (and if I click them), and how much the app costs (or if it's a free app)

 It doesn't depends...  Regardless of what you do and don't download Apple makes money to continue the update process of their device.  They do not spend intial sale money to update devices.  Android devices in order to update they charge carriers to do so.

It is possible, that on some apps (albeit maybe very few), that you don't have to pay for anything (the app, ads, the services for the given app, etc.), and the revenue comes from elsewhere

 Which Apple gets a portion of that revenue which is made from the developer who probably makes a database on user data and sells off the contents.  Which in turn people get spam mail in their inboxes, or phone calls here and there from random telemarketers.

 

Ok, fair enough, but "updates" can mean anything, you area talking about manufacturer updates for the hardware itself (and maybe some things in the OS, but still hardware related)

 

There are also OS updates, when you update from, let's say Eclair (2.1) to Froyo (2.2), Froyo is still considered as an "update" or "upgrade", you are replacing outdated code with newer code, like installing Vista over XP on a PC, Vista would be an "upgrade"

 

When I was talking about an update to help with battery life (better battery management), I wasn't talking about how the hardware was affected, I meant being able to close out of apps and keep them closed (like you can do on the iPhone), and therefore, by being able to control what tasks/apps are running at what given time, you can control what is using the processer and RAM, this is part of the OS, NOT the hardware, this is Google's responsibility, and if Google put that into an OS update, I wouldn't be able to get it as the Eris is officially topped out at Eclair

 Actually this is wrong entirely.  Anything is ram doesn't not waste battery life.  Just because something is in ram doesn't mean it's running.  No matter what's in ram you spend the same amount of battery whether it's full or empty.  Apple does one thing further.  Nothing runs in the background unless pinged from their server so you don't have "true" multitasking.  Everything is paused and save into RAM.  People load these task killers, and the way Linux works for that matter if not closed properly then it will reopen the app which causes the drains.  Welcome to the placebo effect.

Pick up a Samsung device or Motorola device that doesn't have the "latest" os.  They do have task killer preinstalled which actually closes the app the RIGHT way.  As I said it's up the the manufacturers on how they want to do it.  


Anothing thing...  App developers for Android could work the way it should and was intended, but most developers which give you free apps for advertisements want the app open and running as possible to generate them revenue.  The OS gets a bad name.  


As you should already know, the more software (apps) that are running, the more strain that is on the processor and RAM (same with computers, game consoles, DVRs, STBs, and most other electrical hardware), meaning the processer and RAM have to work harder, in the process, this drains the battery, and can make the device perform sluggishly, with the Android OS, EVERY app you open remains open, this means you need a task manager or "killer" in order to "kill" apps so they don't take up processing power or use up RAM, while the OS may have some app management, it isn't very good, which leads to "task killer" apps like "Advanced Task Killer" (which has been known by some to cause issues with their Android devices), and even then, some apps reopen themselves, bringing you back to where you were before

 FALSE...  Also Android automatically kills apps correctly if you need the ram or processing power.  Just because something is loaded in RAM doesn't mean it's running...  You are being fed FUD without understanding how Linux works which Android and OSX is based off of.

The iPhone is a good example, if I leave a bunch of apps open, I get horrible battery life, and the iPhone operates erratically, yet when I access the task manager (double clicking the home button) and close out of apps I am not using (holding  down an app until they jiggle, then tap the red dot on the apps I want to close), the iPhone's battery lasts longer, and it operates smoothly, now if only the Android OS could do that

 My wife currently has 30 apps open on her iPhone 4S and she gets 2-3 days of usage.  Granted she doesn't use it as much as I would, but I can still squeeze 14-15 hours.  My Droid 3 I can get the same amount of usage leaving all my apps open.  The screen is what eats the most battery life in most occasions and that's the same with the iPhones.

 

With my experience with Linux, "root" is equivelent to the "Administrator" account in Windows, it is a form of "Super User" or a user that has access to everything on the system, which makes sense, being on some apps that require you to root, they need "su" or "Super User" access (or the app needs to be able to "su"), I do understand (and agree) that they opted not to do it the same way that linux does it

 Once you have SU correctly setup.. Those "malware" doesn't work anymore.  Those malware need to setup root for you in order to have full access to it without YOUR consent.  So by rooting initially those "malware" do not work anymore.

That said, rooting DOES remove security, it removes the security you have of a limited user account, the same way that it is technically insecure to log in as "root" in Linux or as Administrator in Windows, malware hits a limited user account, and no big deal, it may not be good, but it doesn't cause as much damage as a malware infection in the Administrator/root account, it also, like you said, prevents people from damaging thier phone by doing something stupid on it, and the OS not blocking them from doing so

 See above it ADDS security.  By have most of it removed those exploits are needed to gain root and become the admin.  Just like jailbreaking an iPhone.  They have exploits designed to gain root and once you get to that point without changing the root password you are affected.  The root passwords for all iPhones factory is alpine.

 

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Well, probably not then, but what about now?  And what about other carriers?  If you're already paying for a data plan, why pay twice for the first 1 or 2GBs?  Of course for how much bandwidth computers and other online devices would hog up, it would only make sense to charge for anything over that 1 or 2GBs, carriers now are making us pay twice, then charge us double for more

Pay attention... Blame the bad apples...  As I pointed out people right now are tethering and replacing their home internet with it. 

And exactly, tethering is only useful when you're traveling, or in a location with no internet, or no possibility of getting internet, for as limited as tethering is (at least USB and Bluetooth Tethering), who would want to use tethering over geting a residential ISP anyway? USB and Bluetooth tethering only work on computers, most people not only want to connect computers, but also game consoles, WiFi enabled TVs, Blu-Ray players with TV apps, the list goes on, none of this is going to work on USB or Bluetooth Tethering, the Wireless Hotspot feature is a different story, though it still has limitations

See above.  Read  around check XDA, and read other forums.  People do it on a daily basis. 

Of course people are still abusing the system, I admit I used to be one of them, I had a WiFi tethering app (Barnicle) but I refused to root my Eris for it to work, I then used PDANet, which I used only once, and even it was unreliable at best, I now have the Wireless Hotspot feature on my iPhone, and despite me not being happy about the $20/mo, i'm not complaining, well I find it livable anyway

 Just because you don't do it everyday doesn't mean no else will...

 

Well, free to me anyway, when I first got VVM, I was able to use it for free until I got an update for it, then it started asking me to pay for it (maybe it was a beta?) I refused and stuck with the normal voicemail (which I didn't like the fact you had to hear messages in sequential order, I like to check voicemail messages in order of importance or caller, which VVM allowed), then that fee carried over to the Eris, and I still refused to pay it, then when I got the iPhone, I was amazed that it was all included, and I couldn't live without it (I do understand that they are two different versions of VVM, one from Verizon and the other from Apple), though I wasn't too fond of losing all my voicemail messages during the switch though (I was not warned about it), oh well, at least I have VVM (and there's no difference on the bill as far as I know)

 Apple uses their own systems that's why it is free.  Apple makes more than enough money from iTunes to maintain their newly created servers.  I believe it's even larger than what the US military has and Google servers combined.

As far as how it should be free (on the Blackberry and the Droid), if Sprint offeres it for free like Jax_Omen claims, why can't Verizon?

 Have you been following Sprint news?  Why does Verizon have to offer it for free? They are having trouble with their network and needs major backhaul.  They'll offer  it for free until they can get activations.  The AT&T/T-Mobile deal  will help the get that.  They are only acting like the "good guys" to ensure they get 10-20M activations, and also portions of T-Mobiles network when the FCC sets the conditions.

I never mentioned anything about why jailbroken (the forums are allowing that word now?) iPhones couldn't get VVM, I have no plans on jailbreaking my iPhone so I don't care



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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
kaebfly
Leader

Tidbits wrote:

mikedamirault wrote:

Tidbits wrote:

 Apple uses their own systems that's why it is free.  Apple makes more than enough money from iTunes to maintain their newly created servers.  I believe it's even larger than what the US military has and Google servers combined.

As far as how it should be free (on the Blackberry and the Droid), if Sprint offeres it for free like Jax_Omen claims, why can't Verizon?

 Have you been following Sprint news?  Why does Verizon have to offer it for free? They are having trouble with their network and needs major backhaul.  They'll offer  it for free until they can get activations.  The AT&T/T-Mobile deal  will help the get that.  They are only acting like the "good guys" to ensure they get 10-20M activations, and also portions of T-Mobiles network when the FCC sets the conditions.

I never mentioned anything about why jailbroken (the forums are allowing that word now?) iPhones couldn't get VVM, I have no plans on jailbreaking my iPhone so I don't care




Ok, as far as the VVM thing goes...I think this is already understood...the VVM that is on the iPhone is not the same as the carrier's VVM option that they charge for. It is a stripped bare version...you can not do all of the things you can do with the paid versions. Also, I know for a fact that the VVM on the AT&T iPhone is free just as it is with VZW. VVM on the Blackberry and Droid phones are paid services on both VZW and AT&T. Maybe the length and depth of the continued conversations (and the sheer color hysteria that makes it impossible to remember who is saying what at this point lol) is making me misunderstand what the VVM portion of the debate is about at this point. VVM is a feature that Apple wanted included with the iPhone...so it is...and it's free. I personally preferred the paid version of VVM that I had for awhile on my BB because I could do much more with it, but having free VVM is nice...even if it's a stripped version.

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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
stormy214
Member

Personal opinion.  I'd stick with a Droid.  After years of Droid service, I got the iPhone because "everybody said."  Turned out to be a nightmare in my case, but I guess to each his own.  That's only my opinion.

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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
gina7289
Novice
What can u do on the paid version compared to free version?
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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
kaebfly
Leader

gina7289 wrote:
What can u do on the paid version compared to free version?

Take a look at the following link:
http://support.verizonwireless.com/clc/features/calling_features/visual_voice_mail.html

 

The iPhone version (ie. the "free" version) does not allow you to do most of the things listed. Basically, you can check your voicemail in whichever order you wish to by clicking on the one you want. You can also choose not to check it at all and just delete it. Your vm does not delete until you choose to delete it and even then, if you don't delete it from the deleted messages folder you can always retrieve it if you need to. You can not (to the best of my knowledge) get the paid VVM on the iPhone. There is a difference in the iPhone VVM and the paid version that other VZW users can subscribe to.

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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
bikejackass
Member

With less than 1% of the US served by 4G what does it matter!!!!, Where I live ATT does not even have 3G yet!!!

Unless you both live and work in a city served by 4G it doesn't matter....., personally I use Wi-Fi mostly so I can keep below the data download threshold.

The existing 4g chips are v v v power hungry so you don't want it yet anyway..., plus none of the existing 4G is REALLY 4G speed.

The only reason I can see at present for 4G on a small device like a phone would be for tethering to your Macbook/Laptop.

In 2 years it will be worh getting ( and NFC will be usable).

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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
cj2000
Member

Not at all!!!  Don't let the specs play into to you.  4G is faster, but there really isnt anything case were Ive wished I had 4G.  There are so many wifi hotspots around....(unless your in the middle of nowhere...then 4G is out of the question anyway)... that you really won't absolutely need to have 4G.  Its not like you have to download BitTorrents on your phone or anything.  My brother has a 4G phone and his battery does go pretty fast on 4G.  But besides email, surfing, and occasional app download...not an issue.  Besides.... Siri is REALLY fast get you information and web searches....seriously....you can ask Siri, and she will have you the answer before someone with a 4G can even get their browser open and start to type what they want to search for....If you have Siri, typing is so...old school and 2000 late!  lol.  Siri is like a 'power tool' compared to a 'hand tool' .... hard or next to impossible to go back to.

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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
silver6055
Sr. Member

cj2000 wrote:

Not at all!!!  Don't let the specs play into to you.  4G is faster, but there really isnt anything case were Ive wished I had 4G.  There are so many wifi hotspots around....(unless your in the middle of nowhere...then 4G is out of the question anyway)... that you really won't absolutely need to have 4G.  Its not like you have to download BitTorrents on your phone or anything.  My brother has a 4G phone and his battery does go pretty fast on 4G.  But besides email, surfing, and occasional app download...not an issue.  Besides.... Siri is REALLY fast get you information and web searches....seriously....you can ask Siri, and she will have you the answer before someone with a 4G can even get their browser open and start to type what they want to search for....If you have Siri, typing is so...old school and 2000 late!  lol.  Siri is like a 'power tool' compared to a 'hand tool' .... hard or next to impossible to go back to.


Well, as usual it depends on what you do with your phone.  Not everyone is just searching, some are downloading big things.  And, unlike 3G, 4G is often going to be faster than public Wifi hotspots.

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Re: Was it a mistake to buy a 4s with only 3G?
cj2000
Member

iPhone4s has 1080p video WITH image stabilization!!!! (only phone with it!!!)

The other MOST IMPORTANT feature of the 4s!!!  1080p HD video, but before you say yeah....all the other phones have that too......keep in mind that while most other phones now incorporate accelerometers into the phone, the iPhone is the ONLY one to use both accelerometers AND a 3-axis gyro.  This is how the 4s also adds image stabilization to the 1080p video....and the fact that you have 64GB version....means you always have a quality video camera...that actually CAN replace your camcorder.  Alot of phones have 1080p capability, but they still look like you shot it on a camera.  Check out the info page on the Apple website that talks about the camera...nice with and without clips.  The 4s can shoot video thats as nice as some high end video cameras!  Now, not only do you have a quality 8MP camera, but you also have a quality 1080p HD video recorder with you whever you go AND you can download the iMovie app which is  REAL video editor.  So the 4s is the ONLY phone that you really can say has QUALITY 1080p capability.   

 

 

Here is a some actual fotage with the iPhone 4s and a Canon 5D Mark II ($2400 camera)!!!!  Very impressive!!!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20123601-264/1080p-shootout-iphone-4s-vs-canon-5d-mark-ii/ 

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