QIP 6416-2 Video SD Override setting is nonpermanent?
BrBill
Enthusiast - Level 2

My QIP 6416-2 seems to have a hard default on the SD Override menu, 480i. I can change it to off or 480p (I prefer these settings) and everything is fine until I turn off the box. Next time I turn it on, SD Override is set back to 480i.

Does anyone else have this problem? Is this something that will be fixed by 1.6.2 firmware? Or am I loony?

Please choose only one answer. Pencils up.

0 Likes
Reply
20 Replies
prisaz
Legend

@BrBill wrote:

My QIP 6416-2 seems to have a hard default on the SD Override menu, 480i. I can change it to off or 480p (I prefer these settings) and everything is fine until I turn off the box. Next time I turn it on, SD Override is set back to 480i.

Does anyone else have this problem? Is this something that will be fixed by 1.6.2 firmware? Or am I loony?

Please choose only one answer. Pencils up.


I have the same DVR running at 1080i over HDMI with the SD override turned off. No issues. I tried it and didn't like it. Looney no. SD override would make me that way though.
0 Likes
Reply
BrBill
Enthusiast - Level 2

@prisaz wrote:
I have the same DVR running at 1080i over HDMI with the SD override turned off. No issues. I tried it and didn't like it. Looney no. SD override would make me that way though.

Thanks. I will see what I can do to get it working right - starting with a system reset.


@prisaz wrote:
I tried it and didn't like it. Looney no. SD override would make me that way though.

Your TV probably doesn't stretch the picture. SD override off gives me the appropriate black bars on the side and the correct aspect ratio. I don't like everyone on TV looking like a contestant from Biggest Loser.  That drives ME crazy.

Message Edited by BrBill on 03-04-2009 08:36 AM
0 Likes
Reply
mmccoy
Enthusiast - Level 2

I'm experiencing the same problem.. I've tried all practical solutions (hard resets, toggling the setting from the 'pre-boot' system console), none of which work.

I've tried reporting this to verizon, because its very annoying.. especially when you run through a receiver like mine that has a hard time with HDMI handshakes when changing from a digital <-> analog signal -- funky things happen.

There is no real way of filing a bug or anything, I've asked many times -- there is no channel to report things like this other than these forums.

I would -love- for an actual software engineer that works on the firmware to reply to this thread and see if we can't get it fixed.  Its easily duplicatable, and should be equally easy to fix.

VERIZON ENGINEERS, PLZ HELP! -- I've been dealing with this bug for 2 months.

-mm 

0 Likes
Reply
DzWR
Contributor - Level 1

Ever try changing it in the stb's user settings?  I know the option is in the video settings but try having the stb turned on, and press POWER...wait for the channel to disappear then quickly press SELECT then MENU.  See if changing the SD override options in there make any difference.

Sometimes it can be a little difficult to get into that menu due to the fact the standby menu might turn the tv back on, but after you press power it is literally about half a second wait until you press select then power quickly.

Give it a shot -- hopefully it helps.

0 Likes
Reply
BrBill
Enthusiast - Level 2

Thanks, I will try it. And if that doesn't work, I'm calling Verizon again to escalate. They claim that I would need a new STB. Really? Why?

I second the call for a Verizon tech on these boards. Do they never read these?

I'll let y'all know if it works.

0 Likes
Reply
DzWR
Contributor - Level 1

Some do, but to be honest -- minus the Moderators on this forum -- it really isn't their responsibility to monitor these forums.  They just do it to help people with issues if they have time.  Thats why the forum is a peer to peer forum -- aka customer to customer.  States it in plenty of places over the forum and I believe even when you register.

Over at the DSL reports site they have a forum that is dedicated for Verizon techs to resolve customer issues -- plus the messages you put in for help aren't viewable by the world so it is a more private and online source for help.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiber

If you goto the Verizon Direct area, I believe that is the spot to post for technicians to give you a hand if you have any issues. 

Hopefully the user settings resolves your issues -- but who knows why the box isn't remembering what setting you have set for the override.  If the remote commands being sent to it doesn't work it is either a faulty box or something going wrong with the firmware. 

0 Likes
Reply
BrBill
Enthusiast - Level 2

@DzWR wrote:

Ever try changing it in the stb's user settings?  I know the option is in the video settings but try having the stb turned on, and press POWER...wait for the channel to disappear then quickly press SELECT then MENU.  See if changing the SD override options in there make any difference.

Sometimes it can be a little difficult to get into that menu due to the fact the standby menu might turn the tv back on, but after you press power it is literally about half a second wait until you press select then power quickly.

Give it a shot -- hopefully it helps.


I was able to do this, but the change refused to stay permanent. Thanks for the idea, though.

I guess I am going to have to open an issue with Verizon.

0 Likes
Reply
Justin46
Legend

BrBill,

I think you indicated that you have an A/V receiver in this setup, with HDMI to the receiver and then HDMI to the TV from there. This problem has been reported by many people with this kind of setup; the problem is that the A/V receiver is not sending the correct response to the HDMI synchronization request from the Verizon STB, so the STB changes its setting to match the response.

I do not have this setup, so I cannot give you any details on how to fix it. But what you need to do is set the values properly in the A/V receiver so that the STB sees a device compatible with the setting in the STB, and then the value won't be changed. I have also heard that some A/V receivers simply do not have the correct setting, or maybe any setting, so they will never work correctly.

To prove that the setting in the STB will stick, connect the HDMI cable from the STB directly to theTV and see how it works. If it does, then I think that proves that the A/V receiver is causing the problem.

I think the Verizon STB is working correctly, especially if the connection directly to the TV works. You can of course report the problem to Verizon, but I don't think you will get any satisfaction.

My suggestions are to 1) see if there is a fix to the A/V receiver available from the manufacturer 2) use the HDMI cable directly to the TV, and route the audio only to the A/V receiver, or 3) use component connections, or 4) buy an A/V receiver that conforms properly to the HDMI protocols.

Hope this helps. And I hope the fix is just a setting in the A/V receiver.

__________________________________
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV, Internet, and phone
IMG 1.6.2, Build 08.58
Keller, TX 76248

0 Likes
Reply
VAFiosTech
Enthusiast - Level 2

I also like the 480p setup, I have a 6416-2 box and I have been able to maintain my 480p setting even through the latest IMG update. I have however called into verizon for tech support and one of the "reloads" they did, not only erased my favorites, but also reverted the 480p to 480i because it is the system default.

But other than that, I have had it on there for quite some time.

0 Likes
Reply
mmccoy
Enthusiast - Level 2

If this is the case, its very poor design choice by whomever is writing the firmware.

If a setting is user definable, which SD Override is and should be -- then no other influence or condition should change or toggle it.  I have a Harmon Kardon AVR-254 HDMI switching receiver, and without having SD override set to 'Off', there are always enormous problems with the HDMI handshake when going from HD to SD or vice versa.

I really wish the engineers writing the software for the STB's would address this.

-mm 

Justin46
Legend

@mmccoy wrote:

If this is the case, its very poor design choice by whomever is writing the firmware.

-mm 

On which end? Seems to me both ends should support all settings, and then there would not be a problem. And the Motorola DVR does, it appears it is your A/V receiver that doesn't. Part of the design of the HDMI protocol is for the devices to detect the settings at both ends and have one change if needed, seems to me that is what is happening, and correctly it appears to me. I really think you are placing the blame on the wrong device.

Have you tried the direct connection to the TV, and if so, does it work? Have you checked to see if there is any kind of update for the A/V receiver? I realize you blame Verizon for this, but really, you should at least investigate other solutions; even if it turns out to be a Verizon problem the likelihood of getting a solution quickly is pretty remote.

I hope you can get it working the way you want.

__________________________________
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV, Internet, and phone
IMG 1.6.2, Build 08.58
Keller, TX 76248

0 Likes
Reply
BrBill
Enthusiast - Level 2

@Justin wrote:

@mmccoy wrote:

If this is the case, its very poor design choice by whomever is writing the firmware.

-mm 

On which end? Seems to me both ends should support all settings, and then there would not be a problem. And the Motorola DVR does, it appears it is your A/V receiver that doesn't.


I agree with mmccoy. I also have Harmon-Kardon receiver marshalling my HDMI devices. No other device loses its settings. Only my Motorola STB. I don't give a rat's bum what my A/V receiver is sending. Once I make a choice it should stay until I change it, not when the STB decides it wants to ignore my wishes. This design is just stupid. As a software engineer, I would be embarassed if I came up with a solution like this.

Message Edited by BrBill on 04-20-2009 11:46 AM
Message Edited by BrBill on 04-20-2009 11:47 AM
CapnTrips
Contributor - Level 3

I agree w/ BrBill and mmcoy.  I have TGWO HD DVRs, each is connected via a receiver to my HT systems.  One is an Onkyo and the other is a Pioneer.  I don't know what brand of receiver BrBill and mccoy use, but I'm batting 2 for 2 in that the DVR always reverts to 480i even when I set it to 480p.

Since my TV (in the case of the Pioneer)  and receiver (in the case of the Onkyo) have better video upscaling than the Motorola STB, I would like to CHOOSE to send the unaltered video signal from the STB to my HT system.  What happens to it thereafter should be of NO CONCERN to the Motorola box.

The receivers have to sense the incoming signal and then either pass it directly or upscale according to MY selections.  The Motorola box should not alter my selections, period.

0 Likes
Reply
Justin46
Legend

Look, I am not arguing with any of you, I really would like to see is you get it working the way you want. But I honestly think the HDMI standard, which is what every manufacturer should be supporting, does not specify HDMI to work the way you think it should. Now, here are a few quotes and links to things I found on the HDMI.ORG website, which should be the real info on how HDMI works. I am sure that some of you will say "well, it does not really say xyz, so Justin you are wrong." Fine, I accept that, but if you read the quotes with an open mind, I think you will see that the HDMI protocol most definitely allows the two devices at the ends of the HDMI cable to negotiate what is trasmitted and how, and settings in both devices are used to determine those settings, it is not fixed at one end like you all seem to want. And you might want to read the entire web pages rather than just the snippets I have posted.

My point in all of this is that many, or most, A/V receivers have configuration options in them to allow the HDMI negotiation to result in what you want to happen. You really need to look at the configuration of your A/V receiver to see if the options are there, and if so, how they are set. And if they are not there, I think you will never get the STB to keep the setting you want, you will need to connect the HDMI to the TV and then use audio cables to get the audio to the A/V receiver.

Anyway, I hope all of you can get this resolved to your satisfaction, whatever is the correct answer.

link: http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#94

Q. How will HDMI change the way we interface with our entertainment systems?

The most tangible and immediate way that HDMI changes the way we interface with our components is in the set-up. One cable replaces up to 11 analog cables, highly simplifying the setting up of a home theater as well as supporting the aesthetics of new component design with cable simplification.

Next, when the consumer turns on the HDMI-connected system, the video is of higher quality since the signal has been neither compressed nor converted from digital to analog and back.

Lastly, because of the two-way communication capabilities of HDMI, components that are connected via HDMI constantly talk to each other in the background, exchanging key profile information so that content is sent in the best format without the user having to scroll through set-up menus.

link: http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/hdmi_advantage.aspx

Devices connected with HDMI have the ability to scan each other’s capabilities and automatically configure certain settings. An HDTV and a DVD player, for instance, can auto-negotiate settings like resolution and aspect ratio to correctly match the format of the incoming content to the highest capabilities of the TV.

link:  http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx#103

Q. What is EDID?

EDID stands for Extended Display Information Data. This is the data contained (usually in a small EEPROM) on each DVI display or HDMI sink. There may be as many as one EDID per DVI or HDMI input.

The source device checks the display’s DVI or HDMI port for the presence of an EDID prom and uses the information inside to optimize the output video and/or audio format. The EDID data structure can be for either VESA PC devices or for CEA-861B E-EDID (Enhanced EDID) devices. All sink devices compliant to the DVI or HDMI specification must implement EDID.

An EDID PROM is used only in sink devices. An EDID PROM sits on the DDC channel and uses a 2-wire I2C bus (part of the DDC specification from www.vesa.org) to communicate from the sink to the source. The EDID PROM contains information about the sink that it resides in. Its job is to communicate the preferred (or supported) video and audio formats and resolutions to the originating source. As an example, when a DVD player is powered on, it reads the EDID from an attached HDTV. The HDTV will have in its EDID contents that it is a Samsung 17” LCD panel that supports native resolution of 1280x1024 pixels, but can also support 480p, 720p and 1080i video modes. The EDID may also say that the TV is an HDMI device and has 2-speakers. The DVD player would compare this information with what it can put out of its HDMI port, then set itself to send 1080i with 2-channel stereo to the HDTV.

__________________________________
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV, Internet, and phone
IMG 1.6.2, Build 08.58
Keller, TX 76248

0 Likes
Reply
mmccoy
Enthusiast - Level 2

Justin, 

I appreciate the time and effort you are devoting to this thread.  The information you are providing about the HDMI "standard" is all well and good, but it seems to me you are missing the (my) point.  

Along with the point I made before about this being a user definable setting, the very term "Override" indicates that you are overwriting the default behavior, does it not?  If not, then what is the point of even exposing this setting to the user?  

If you don't mind me asking, what is your position with Verizon?  Do you have any access to the firmware/guide software engineers? I would love to hear their take on this, or if they even recognize it as a bug.

For the record -- I am overall incredibly happy with my Fios service.. don't paint me as disgruntled, because really I'm not.  If anything, I'm just frustrated that there are no direct or 'official' communication channels to file bugs such as these.

I've been getting by on just leaving the STB on at all times, but even then -- if an update is pushed, this setting is always reverted.

Thanks again for your participation in this thread.

-mmccoy 

Message Edited by mmccoy on 04-20-2009 03:28 PM
0 Likes
Reply
Justin46
Legend

mmccoy,

I think I understand your point, I just don't think the standard and the hardware/software works the way you want. I hope I am wrong and you can get it working the way you want, but I am just saying what I believe is correct, based on things I have read on other fiOS forums. And of course I can't test or experiment on this problem since I don't have the required setup.

FWIW, I have no relationship with Verizon, not an employee, no stock, I am just someone who is retired and thought maybe I could help since I have had FiOS phone, internet, and V for 3 1/2+ years. I wish I did have access, it would help me do a better job of trying to help, but I don't.

__________________________________
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV, Internet, and phone
IMG 1.6.2, Build 08.58
Keller, TX 76248

0 Likes
Reply
BrBill
Enthusiast - Level 2

Justin, I also thank you for your help.

I only have one HDMI connector on the TV. I have 3 HDMI devices trying to get in, so I need the H-K receiver to be my switcher.

But, I may just end up pulling HDMI from the FIOS equation and just go with component. I don't want to, but I might have to if I want everything to behave the way it ought to.

First, I'll try to manipulate the receiver into doing my bidding.

By the way, I theorize that the failure to override with an "override" setting is Motorola's fault, not Verizon's. I could be wrong about that.

0 Likes
Reply
jonhan
Newbie
I too have the problem of randomly loosing the SD overide option. I normally keep i set to "OFF" but I've noticed since the update to FW 1.6.2 it will revert on its own to "480i". BTW my connection is component straight from STB to TV.
0 Likes
Reply
CSimpson
Contributor - Level 1
You know.... I think this has been happening to me ever since the 1.6.2 upgrade.  My SD override keeps reverting back to 480i.  But, I generally leave my STBs on 24/7, so I don't experience this often.
0 Likes
Reply
spacedebrisR
Contributor - Level 1

First thing to look at is at your tv settings. What is the default setting for your TV? Most of the settings on the STB are done by the hand shake between the tv and the cable box. If your TV's native setting is 480i, you can temporarilly override the setting by going into the stb and changing it but the next time the cable box is turned off and then back on, the STB will contact your tv and set the output resolution to the setting that the tv is saying is optimum. If your tv has its default display set at 480i, that is what is communicated back to the stb and that is what the stb puts out. If you want your setting to remain at 480p then you have to have the tv communicate that to the stb. and there is the rub, most of the tv's out there now, have no way for you to change its default resolution. and if you cant set it on the tv, then the stb will reset every time it has to re-communicate to the tv.

From the verizon viewpoint, I doubt they will change this. remember that the average user cannot even set the clock on their vcr, let alone go in and change complicated resolution settings, ( there are a lot of people out there reading this going, "What are they talking about? 480i, 480p, 1080, what are these numbers? ) So they have to make the STB's try to do as much as they can automatically. Even though advanced users are hindered by this, they have to please the masses, and we that go in and work with the advanced settings are really in the minority.

Also if they let the settings be perminate, they will end up having problems getting the tv's to display properly on the un-initiated. That's whats going on with the problem with Samsung TV's and HDMI. Samsung Tv's dont communicate the resolution back to the cable box like they should and then the cable box has no idea what resolution the tv can handle. So it puts out the default signal of the picture being broacast and the tv cannot handle that resolution and you loose the pic.

So the only thing you can do at this point is to....not turn off the stb. leave it on. turning it off doenst save any energy anyway so there is no reason to turn it off in the first place. Just turn off the tv, leave the stb on and then it should keep your setting until the next time the stb as to be updated or refreshed. 

0 Likes
Reply