Carrier Grade NAT (CGN)

[ADAM619]

Verizon,

Verizon has announced some DSL customers will move to Carrier Grade NAT (CGN) which uses IPv6 instead fo the old standard IPv4 we use today (see verizon link below).

This basically means you can no longer port forward. IP cameras and many other applications require port forwarding so they can accessible from the internet outside the home. Many gamers also require this ability.

Eventually everyone will be on IPv6. My question is how will Verizon customers on IPv6 be able to port forward? Or will it just not be allowed?

I understand DSL customers can currently opt-out of CGN, but the point is at some point everyone will be moved to it.

Please See:

http://www22.verizon.com/support/residential/internet/highspeedinternet/networking/troubleshooting/p...

Thank you for your time

- Adam

[dslr595148]

#1 First things first, I think you meant to say/ask...

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Verizon has announced some DSL customers will move to Carrier Grade NAT (CGN) which uses NAT at the ISP's router instead at the user's router.

My question is how will Verizon customers on IPv4 be able to port forward? Or will it just not be allowed?

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#2 Now for your question.

a) Users who opt-out if forwarding ports will have users from the Network of Networks that spans the globe (otherwise known as the Intenet) to connect to them.

b) Users who do not opt-out if forwarding ports, I believe, can only allow users from the same CGN device to connect them.

#3 By I beleive:

a) I do not work for Verizon.

b) It will depend on how the CGN device is configured.

#4 Please note: If another user is behind the same user's router, depending on how the user's router is configured, the other can connect to them (regardless of how the CGN router is configured).

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@ADAM619 wrote:

I understand DSL customers can currently opt-out of CGN, but the point is at some point everyone will be moved to it.

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Then what is the point of opt-out of CGN -  and just to clear, without upgrading to a business account or going to FIOS or canceling Verizon DSL ?

[ADAM619]

Thanks. To correct the wording of my question:

CGN is actally a patch fix that Verizon (and any ISP) can use that allows one "Public IP" address to serve hundreds or more residential customers. This is all still IPv4 and does not deal at all with the IPv6 transition.

New IPv4 addresses are very hard for ISPs to be allocated, so everyone is starting to take precautions on conserving their use.

I would love if someone from Verizon could possibly comment on CGN and how their implementation would affect a customer's ability to port forward. Will Verizon provide a way for CGN customers to port forward?

Eventually this will probably affect FIOS customers too. Thanks so much for your time and responses.

- Adam

[dslr595148]

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@ADAM619 wrote:

I would love if someone from Verizon could possibly comment on CGN and how their implementation would affect a customer's ability to port forward.

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I am not saying that is not going happen, but

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The Verizon Community Forums is where customers help other customers. 
If you need assistance for specific Verizon account issues, please contact us.

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and I don't know why they don't say that anymore execpt in certain areas.

For example of one of those areas, the e-mail board

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/Verizon-net-Email/bd-p/emailissues

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@ADAM619 wrote:

Eventually this will probably affect FIOS customers too.

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Why on earth would they want to do that for when:

The fact that GCN breaks ALL incoming remote access services. And since FiOS TV depends so heavily on remote access (remote DVR and other features) GCN on FiOS would actually cripple the advertising points for those features, as well as the whole smart home thing they're trying to push on FiOS as well.

???

Thanks

[Ian_VZ · Accepted solution]

ADAM619,

At the moment we're unable to answer these questions.  When we have more information we will provide it here in the forums, and make it available at www.verizon.com.  Thanks for your patience during this transition. ~Ian

[dslr595148]

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@ADAM619 wrote:

Will Verizon provide a way for CGN customers to port forward?

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Considering what the TOS (Terms of Service) are for DSL from Verizon, as noted on

http://my.verizon.com/central/vzc.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=vzc_help_policies&id=TOS

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You also may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server.

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..I would think the answer is no.

[smith6612]

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@dslr595148 wrote:

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@ADAM619 wrote:

Will Verizon provide a way for CGN customers to port forward?

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Considering what the TOS (Terms of Service) are for DSL from Verizon, as noted on

http://my.verizon.com/central/vzc.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=vzc_help_policies&id=TOS

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You also may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server.

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..I would think the answer is no.

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Little are the terms of service aware, Verizon's own products (Home Monitoring, CWMP Agent, Verizon STBs on FiOS which also has the same clause in the ToS) host servers from the connection and common, everyday items such as Game Consoles (Xbox, PS3) set up servers while using online features as that is how the systems live. I'm sure there's a clause which excludes provider-supplied server devices and software, but still, silly ToS written by lawyers 🙂

As for port forwarding on CGN, it's possible to allow deterministic port forwarding using specific protocols and DPI, however implementation will be shoddy and degrading for all users behind a specific CGNAT appliance. In other words, not happening. You'll need a Public IP offered up to you to port forward.

[credible0]

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[LawrenceC]

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