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Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
skullsx
Newbie

Hi there, my internet was working great until approximately 2 weeks ago. I figured something was up and it would be sorted out but it has now been 2 weeks and it's slower than ever. I am on the High Speed Enhanced (1.1-3) plan, however my download speeds are horrible. I am unable to stream, unable to even load youtube videos, .pdf's take forever to load and it has not been a pleasant experience as compared to what I am used to. What's going on? 

http://www.actiontec.com/products/product.php?pid=40 (my modem)

Speedtest:

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
dslr595148
Super User
Super User

#1 Visit http://www.giganews.com/line_info.html and post up the Traceroute the page shows, if you wish. Be aware that the final hop (bottom-most line of the trace) might contain a hop with your IP address in it. Remove that line. What I'm looking for is a line that mentions "ERX" in it's name towards the end. If for some reason the trace does not complete (two lines full of Stars), keep the trace route intact.

#2 Can you provide the Transceiver Statistics from your modem?

For your modem, this means...

a) Go to htto://192.168.0.1

b) Select Status

c) Then Select WAN

d) Copy all of the info that is below the line that says DSL Status.

e) If showing a screen shot, you do not need to show any info that is above that line.

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
skullsx
Newbie

image

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
hellokyle
Newbie

I'm also in PA and have been getting terrible internet for about 2 days now. It's more or less impossible to play any games, or videos.

Speedtest: (I've been getting 40-60 kB/s download for the most part)

Traceroute:

8 P0-0.SCTNPA-HZTNPAHZ-ERXG09.verizon-gni.net (***.**.***.***) 19 ms 18 ms 16 ms
9 P0-0.SCTNPA-HZTNPAHZ-ERXG09.verizon-gni.net (***.**.***.***) 17 ms * *

 

 

Broadband Status

Broadband Parameter Status

VPI:0
VCI:35
Broadband Mode Setting:ADSL
Broadband Negotiated Mode:G.DMT
Connection Status:CONNECTED
Downstream Speed:1792 Kbps
Upstream Speed:96 Kbps
Retrains:0
Retrain Timer:0 Days, 1H:25M:36S
ATM QoS class:UBR
Near End CRC Errors Interleave:84
Near End CRC Errors Fastpath :N/A
Far End CRC Errors Interleave :3
Far End CRC Errors Fastpath :N/A
30 Minute Near End CRC Interleave :101
30 Minute Near End CRC Fastpath :N/A
30 Minute Far End CRC Interleave :0
30 Minute Far End CRC Fastpath :N/A
Near End RS FEC Interleave :0
Near End RS FEC Fastpath :N/A
Far End RS FEC Interleave :0
Far End RS FEC Fastpath :N/A
30 Minute Near End FEC Interleave :2
30 Minute Near End FEC Fastpath :N/A
30 Minute Far End FEC Interleave :0
30 Minute Far End FEC Fastpath :N/A
30 Minute Discarded Packets Downstream :0
30 Minute Discarded Packets Upstream :0
SNR Downstream :13 dB
SNR Upstream :6 dB
Attenuation Downstream :29 dB
Attenuation Upstream :12 dB
Power Downstream19.6 dBm
Power Upstream-3.9 dBm

 

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
Grey5
Enthusiast - Level 3

Hate to chime in with the "Me Too" response.

Been on the live chat with Verizon 3 times, totaling 3 hours, and still no fix.

Currently, their response is "looks like you PC', but that makes no sense with the fact that the bad throughput happens at 4pm, and goes on past 11pm. 6am to 4pm seems to respond as expected (can remote in from outside and do tests). 3 weeks ago I noticed a drop of receive margin db from 20db down to 6db. I replaced cable, filters, moved the dsl modem closer to the external verizon jack, and now I'm back to 20.9 db for margin.

Next hop of the VC bridge is: 71.116.27.1 (erie PA DSL 01)

150ms icmp time (stays around that value).

  • VC Status: Enabled
  • VPI: 0
  • VCI: 35
  • PCR: 100
  • QoS: UBR
  • Protocol: Bridge
  • Bridge Mode: Router Bridge

Transceiver Statistics

  • Transceiver Revision: 7.2.3.0
  • Vendor ID Code: 4
  • Line Mode: G.DMT Mode
  • Data Path: Interleaved
  • Transceiver Information
  • Downstream Path Upstream Path
  • DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 3360 864
  • Margin (dB) 29.5 11.0
  • Line Attenuation (dB) 14.5 9.0
  • Transmit Power (dBm) 13.6 11.9

  • Software Version: VER:4.04.03.00
  • Transceiver Revision: 7.2.3.0
  • Model Name: B90-327W15-06
  • Serial Number: 05B405319460
  • Broadband Connection Status: UP
  • Broadband IP Address: 71.116.27.xx
  • Broadband MAC Address: 00:0f:db:4a:8d:65
  • Broadband Connection Type: Bridge
  • Active Status: 00:00:00
  • Configuration: 096-900096-00

I tried a westell 6100 modem, in bridge and routed bridge. Same issues.

tried a reset of the westell 327w modem (above stats are from that), same issues.

The verizon live chat did a screen share, and couldnt get any speed test to work (they actually didnt wait 2 minutes for the page to load), and start to say that my PC is to blame. I'd accept that if it wasn't for the fact that during the morning and afternoon everything works without an issue, after 4pm it drops to 100kbits/s 20kbit/s, and no matter changing dhcp address from verizons end changes anything.

If the dsl margin is good, and I've good solid connection down the bridge during the day on the same machine that fails in the evening, this points to congestion in the area... Problem is, how to get them to do anything, as they can say "it's your PC".

Its very frustrating. Had no issue for 3 years, now cant get them to investigate.

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
Grey5
Enthusiast - Level 3

Did some more work using a remote connection into home.

Using the 2mb random image file at i.dslr.net/nullbig1.jpg I download the the file, and kept a time stamp and speed listing:

2012-09-26 13:35:03 (174 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 13:52:48 (232 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 14:19:13 (195 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 14:56:27 (115 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 15:19:54 (54.5 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 15:25:26 (37.0 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 15:35:55 (57.0 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 15:50:26 (46.7 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 16:35:03 (13.9 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 18:49:42 (8.04 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 19:19:02 (13.8 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 19:27:46 (16.9 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 20:31:14 (12.1 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 20:38:06 (10.7 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-26 21:13:32 (12.0 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]
2012-09-27 06:52:05 (145 KB/s) - `./nullbig1.jpg' saved [1986284/1986284]

 I'd be happy to be above 100 kilobytes per second through-out the day (as, granted, other people use systems during the day, I'm not saying that I should get my maximum download all the time).

Between 2:56pm and 3:19pm (EDT) the bandwidth drops.

I use a perl script to query the modem of it's stats to monitor the bandwidth coming off the routers counters, and there was no increase of data coming into the routers WAN port.

I could understand a Verizon remote tech stating that it must be my PC, as I can show that the DSL transceiver stats do not change during the time of through-put dropoff. I worry that my upstream margin db stays at 10db, but at least it's not all over the place. download margin is at 30db.What I cannot show them is that during the day time the system works correctly, at 3pm onwards it drops significantly. If I was using different PC's, I'd admit it's my PC, but there have been no changes of equipment or usage between good or bad speeds.

The ping times and latency to the next hop over the dsl bridge are consistent (I'm seeing a lost ping every 20 seconds or so, but I'm not overly concerned about that), and I've tried: 71.116.32.1 (L100.ERIEPA-DSL-01.verizon-gni.net.), and 130.81.194.75 (A9-0-1715.ERIEPA-DSL-01.verizon-gni.net.). I've even pinged these systems from a non-Verizon address, and got 150 to 200ms delays (again, not indicating a line failure).

Last night I put a CAT5 connection from the external Verizon box (granted, just the blue twisted pair connectors) straight to the DSL modem, as the only pair (crimped a RJ11 on the other end), distance must be under 5 feet. Tested with phone, no static regardless of DSL filter attached to simple POTS phone. DSL Upstream margin went to 11db, downstream at 30db. No change in speed.

After that, I put Cat5 to single POTS phone (via filter near phone, distance under 10 feet). Again, no change.

If the ICMP data is showing no issues, then something else is going on after the DSL bridge.

The last online tech told me he would monitor the DSL line for 24 hours, and call after it completes. I have heard nothing, but sadly, I didn't expect to hear anything. I'm tempted to say that my DSL connection to the CO is good. Internally, equipment is in good working order, I even tried a different DSL modem, and get the same stats from it, and no improved speed, so a newer modem will not change the situation.

What's upstream between the DSL router I connect to, and the internet, how do I convince a Verizon engineer to look at that?

Does someone in the 71.116.x.x PA/Erie area want to host a 650Meg iso file, and we try a download test from residential DSL, to residential DSL speed test. If that test shows above 20kBytes/s, then it's something upstream from the DSL routers. Even if they sent an engineer to the external Box, with a new modem, I suspect the DSL connection would look great, and data to Verizon would be good (as they wouldn't come during the evening). If it was just me having this problem, that'd be a little different (test external cables to pole, etc..), but I'm seeing a number of people having the same issue, and no responses saying "solved, and here's the ticket number for reference".

At a loss on how to get Tech support to try and look to prove it's 100% not Verizon (which would prove it's me), or get a resolution after all these changes. Not got any choices for other carriers in the area (and I'd like to keep Verizon, but it's really got to be working consistently).

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
hellokyle
Newbie

A lot of people in PA, in the same general area seem to be having the same problem.

During the day (2am est - 3pm est) I'll get around 100 kb/s down, the rest of the time I'll be lucky to even get 50 kb/s.

It wasn't but a few weeks ago I was getting a consistant 400 kb/s down, so I have no idea whats going on, and of course Verizon constantly attempts to put the blame back on me, saying it has to be my PC instead of actually looking into this issue. My system is fine, my system is protected. It's not a virus on my system, believe me.

Having 600-1,000 ping in a video game makes it pretty much unplayable, never mind attempting to watch streams or play YouTube videos.

Having two people on the same network during those hours? forget it.

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
smith6612
Super User
Super User

@skullsx: Your line statistics look great. You should be able to fly even with a 5Mbps or 7Mbps connection with those sort of stats. What you're seeing is probably congestion along the line, either at the DSLAM, especially if you're on a remote or in the backbone somewhere. It's possible you're seeing a common problem with congestion at the edge router, but I believe since the retiring of the old ATM Redback routers that should no longer be as much of an issue.

@hellokyle: Your upload is horrible and is the source of your problems here. Not many games will work with 60kbps of upload, let alone will your downloads get very fast with ACKs being delayed like that. You have a copper issue somewhere. Try to test your modem out at your NID if possible to see if you can get improved line statistics. If not, get Verizon out to fix that. They should not say that those speeds or stats are acceptable.

For testing at the NID, see this FAQ: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/1317 . You should be able to bring a laptop and extension cord with you outside along with the modem. Connecting up to the NID if it's a modern one will be as simple as plugging in a test jack.

@Grey: Sounds like you've covered all the bases Verizon would normally have you cover. As you're on ADSL, 864kbps is near the limit of most line cards and due to the way spectrum is allocated, you'll find that at such a high speed on the upload the SNR will drop to about 10dB, and at that speed it could be anywhere from 6dB to 13dB depending on how clean the line is. The margin reported for the upstream won't change as the margin there is computed at training, and only changes when the line re-synchronizes again. Your downstream margin will change however, as that is more exclusively watched by the modem, which is reported back to the DSLAM.

The times you're saying the service bombs out sounds about right for "Kids home from school" traffic and also end of day business traffic. From your modem to the backbone, you've got several pieces of equipment. In a basic stance, from your modem you have the copper network (Physical links) which connects to a DSLAM, remote or CO-based or SLC (Remotes such as those made by Alcatel-Lucent dubbed Litespan, or Catena Networks). If you're on a remote DSLAM or SLC, from the line card you have an ATM switch and some backhaul gear that connects the remote either via T1, T3 or OC-based Fiber. If you're out of the CO, you'll have a full blown DSLAM with fiber connectivity to the network. You still have ATM switches in the mix, but it's less to keep in mind. From the CO's internal network you then have connectivity to your BRAS, aka the Edge Router. These could be Juniper ERX series routers, or if you're on an older router for various reasons, a Redback Networks router. From that point the BRAS has a direct connection to the backbone which could be anything.

So just to give the basic idea. When you're reporting slow speeds, Verizon should be checking their equipment for utilization. Industry standard is anything beyond 70% utilization needs to be watched, and past 85% warnings are issued about congestion as at that point, you have very little headroom for burst and data loss starts to happen due to congestion if the equiment is set to drop excess data rather than store it in a buffer. Last winter, there was a Catena remote near me with T3 connectivity (45Mbps up and down) that was hauled over OC-12 Fiber (622Mbps) due to the design and age of the remote. During night time hours, that remote saw congestion where the circuit for the Integrated DSLAM was exceeding 90% utilization for several hours for a little less than 15 days out of 30 days of a month. During these days speeds were near dial-up and packet loss was quite abundant. The CO was having no issues, but the remote, which has plenty of folks on 3Mbps and 1.5Mbps didn't have the capacity to handle traffic on the downstream. With higher connectivity, it could have however as the remote was also very old, at the time I'm sure fiber cards were prohibitively expensive for the time and of course, traffic was also not that heavy. Granted, congestion isn't the only thing that remote has seen. The DSLAM on that remote has gone into a continuous reboot for several hours for nearly a year causing all lines to re-train endlessly until it stabalized, and Verizon found out about it and fixed it.

Congestion issues are harder to explain to Verizon, so you need to push them to fix it. That, or they just don't have the will to fix up the congestion until it gets very bad due to the fact that it's considered a residential grade service.

Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
Grey5
Enthusiast - Level 3

@Smith6612: Appreciate the insight into the SLC/DSLAM, utilization, and connections. I might have a way to test between two Erie DSL sites tonight, which may highlight my line, or the upstream equipment.

Going to have to keep working on it, and not get too angry at the support techs. Just need to find the right words to get them to look further than my local PC equipment (which, at the end of the day, must be a significant form of failure with them...)

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Re: Extremely slow DSL speeds recently (PA)
JYoung2
Enthusiast - Level 2

I am so happy to see that this is not an isolated problem.  Have spent over 3 hours with the Verizon chat people and no luck, not sure they believed me as I am over 2.1 mbps from 8 am to 3 pm then it drops to less than 0.6.  From 2 to 3:30 it continuously drops.  They keep wanting to change things on my computer and can't see to even consider heavy traffic as the problem.  I have tracked the perform for three days every two hours.

HOW DO WE AS A GROUP GET VERIZON TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE ISSUE?  Can't find someone locally to talk with.  I am located outside Cambridge Springs, 30 miles south of Erie, Pa.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

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