FiOS Business with TV and Static IP block

[FrankieKat]

I am looking at moving my FiOS residential Internet/TV service to a business account with a static IP range (/29 block of 5). 

Currently the Verizon gateway/router connects to OMT/NIB directly via Ethernet, however for technical and business reasons I want to maintain personal and business networks separately and utilize my own supplied router/firewall/NAT devices.  I will have two separate firewall devices, with their own public static IP on the /29 block connecting to the single ONT Ethernet via a small switch.

Where I'm not clear is how if I don't use the Verizon Gateway/MoCA device as primary firewall/NAT, does it sit in a network when you have a static IP block.  In order to maintain the PPV/EPG/VOD features, while not using any of the Wi-Fi/LAN services, does this device also sit on the outside network (WAN from the ONT)?  How would this work?

1. Verizon Gateway WAN connects to ONT (via switch) and is manually configured for a public static IP address from the /29 block assigned
2. Verizon Gateway WAN connects to ONT (via switch) and receives a public IP address via DHCP (outside of the /29 block)
3. Verizon Gateway WAN connects to LAN network of firewall/NAT device and is assigned private LAN IP address

Here is a diagram of what I am picturing.  For this example, the static IP range assignment is 108.1.2.0/29.

This is in the NYC metro if that makes a difference.  

Thanks so much.

[Cang_Household]

First of all, that is not a "L2 Switch," it is a hub symbol.

Your question mainly concerns the layer 3 WAN side. You cannot have a WAN DHCP and static IPs on the same ethernet interface of the ONT. You either need to request a MDU (Multiple Dwelling Unit, rack-mountable) with multiple ethernet interfaces (like 8-16 ports) or a technician needs to come in to pull a second GPON line.

You need to get in contact with upper-tier business technical support. Special configurations need to be done on Verizon's OLT. If your existing GPON line is saturated, technicians might need to migrate your GPON connection to a different OLT port.

[FrankieKat]

Thanks.  Yes, my question is mostly related to the L3 and physical configuration of the Verizon equipment necessary to support having all of the MoCA-driven TV/STB features and utilization of the public IP space provided.

My question as to whether or not the Verizon gateway would use DHCP on the WAN side was just one option as to how I was guessing it *might* work, but what it sounds like is that it would be one of the others.  That is, either the VZ GW gets one of the provided static IP addresses or it goes behind one of the firewall devices and sits on the LAN side.

Is that the typical/supported setup for MoCA/STB + static IP range?

And good catch on the wrong icon for hub/switch.  Updated drawing that better reflects VZ hardware connection.

Rev2

FK

[FrankieKat]

Thanks.  Sorry if my post was complicated.  I was more looking for how it will work to have the Verizon MoCA/STB features + static IP blocks working with end-user supplied firewall/NAT equipment.

[Edg1]

Your setup is correct. The fios gateway router will need to be configured with one of your 5 WAN static IPs.

[Cang_Household]

You want to have as few hops as possible between Verizon's network and the Verizon router. Ideally, it should be 0 hop between the ONT and the router. You are correct to have the Verizon router at the same level as your NAT/Firewall.

[lasagna · Accepted solution]

What you drew initially is correct.   To understand, view this as two different problems ... first the IP network and second the television signal.

For the IP network, erase the Coax line between the ONT and the rest of the house (so the Coax is only plugged into the router and the STB's.     Now you have an IP network with three externally facing interface (two firewalls and the Verizon gateway) and the ONT.    Essentially, you STB's communicate over coax via MoCA LAN to get IP services via the Verizon gateway.

For the TV network, erase the Coax line between the Verizon router and the ONT and reconnect the line from the vcoax cable plant and the ONT.    Now you have TV signal going to the STB's.   There is no IP networking here.

So, that's the logical picture.   Remember the MoCA LAN, MoCA WAN (which you aren't using), and TV channels all use DIFFERENT frequencies, so they can co-exist on the same physical piece of media and not interfere with one another.  Specifically, the TV channels are at or below 900Mhz, MoCA WAN at 1000Mhz, and MoCA LAN usually at 1100MHz.

So, since they all don't conflict, you connect everything physically the way you have shown and everything works as it's supposed to since nothing bumps into one another.   So, as you've drawn.

Make sense?

[IvesSM]

A recent long discussion w TS on this resulted in the following possible solution. I have yet to test this but wanted to throw it out and get some comments on it b4 I test it out.

Situation: Customer ordered up FiOS Internet w 1-STATIC IP, 1-POTS line, & TV. Verizon default install is to have the STATIC IP on the VERIZON Router to support the TV connection. Customer needs STATIC IP on THEIR (CUSTOMER) ROUTER but Verizon does not support this scenario.

Solution: Go FROM VERIZON ONT direct via CAT5/6 to CUSTOMER ROUTER. Program STATIC IP in CUSTOMER WAN ROUTER Port. This provides INTERNET service to the CUSTOMER ROUTER on their VERIZON assigned STATIC IP.

To get the INTERNET to the TV, Connect CUSTOMER LAN NETWORK to VERIZON ROUTER LAN PORT. With DHCP on the CUSTOMER NETWORK the VERIZON ROUTER LAN PORT will get a local LAN address (192.168.blah.blah) and provide local LAN addresses to anything that is plugged into the VERIZON LAN PORTS including the MoCA port. Now you connect the TV BOX to the MoCA port on the VERIZON ROUTER and it gets to the internet out through the CUSTOMER ROUTER and assigned STATIC IP.

DO NOT plug anything into the VERIZON WAN port as that would cause double NAT'ing and we do not want to do that.

Let me know if I'm all wet on this or you think it will fly.

Thanks.

-stew

[Cang_Household]

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@IvesSM wrote:

Customer needs STATIC IP on THEIR (CUSTOMER) ROUTER but Verizon does not support this scenario.

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If you are using your own router, Verizon official support ends at your ONT, but nothing prevents you to get support from here.

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@IvesSM wrote:

With DHCP on the CUSTOMER NETWORK the VERIZON ROUTER LAN PORT will get a local LAN address (192.168.blah.blah) and provide local LAN addresses to anything that is plugged into the VERIZON LAN PORTS including the MoCA port.

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Verizon router's LAN interface won't get a DHCP IP address, you have to login to its GUI and configure a static LAN IP address. If you solely rely on the DHCP on the  customer network, you need to disable Verizon router's LAN DHCP server.

Verizon router's MoCA port is bridged with the LAN ports by default. The MoCA port can support another 15 MoCA nodes. For STBs, you don't need a Verizon router to feed network access through MoCA. Any MoCA adapter would work.

The STBs negotiate with Verizon router to create port forwarding rules to receive Video on Demand, Remote DVR, and CID. These features are lost when you use your own router as the primary NAT because STBs cannot negotiate with a customer router. There are potential work-arounds available, for example forwarding a range or ports to Verizon router and double-NAT, but I have no confirmation that this setup works.

Nonetheless, the STBs need a Verizon router to activate. Once they are activated, a Verizon router is technically unnecessary.

Also, the Fios Community Forums is technically for residential support per guidelines. I don't see any harm in helping business customers because there isn't a separate community for business customers.