Verizon FIOS Intermittent Packet Loss Problem - How to Convince Verizon Support it's NOT ME

[stubbie1]

Hi,

I have been having a problem with Verizon FIOS Internet AND Phone since Thursday afternoon.

Basically I have intermittent outages several times a day of 15-40 seconds where my download doesn't work, but upload still does. This happens on BOTH my phone and internet. Therefore it's not my router or computer equipment causing the problem.

Here's what happens:

- On the internet: I have a periodic download problem where I can receive no data for about 15 - 40 seconds. After that it returns to normal

- On the phone: If I'm on the phone at the same time then during that period of internet loss I also can not hear anything that the person I am talking to says. However they can hear me just fine (ie. download only problem)

I have been talking to Verizon technical support and they have blamed my router and ONT. I have tried switching off the router, and using a different one. Also they have replaced the ONT twice.

* This problem occurs on BOTH the phone and internet at the same time. This clearly suggests the problem is not in my own house.

In fact I know exactly where the problem lies. I did a traceroute to google below:

Tracing route to google.com [74.125.113.106]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     4 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     5 ms     4 ms     4 ms  L300.NWRKNJ-VFTTP-122.verizon-gni.net [74.105.157.1]
  3     9 ms     8 ms     7 ms  G2-0-0-1822.NWRKNJ-LCR-08.verizon-gni.net [130.81.133.156]
  4    11 ms     8 ms     7 ms  P15-0.NWRKNJ-LCR-07.verizon-gni.net [130.81.30.148]
  5     9 ms     6 ms     7 ms  so-5-0-0-0.NWRK-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.29.8]
  6     7 ms     6 ms     7 ms  0.so-7-0-0.XL3.EWR6.ALTER.NET [152.63.19.177]
  7     9 ms    10 ms     9 ms  0.so-1-0-1.XL3.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.213]
  8     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  TenGigE0-6-0-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.22.41]
  9    33 ms    31 ms    35 ms  google-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.62]
 10     8 ms    11 ms    10 ms  209.85.252.215
 11    18 ms    17 ms    16 ms  209.85.249.11
 12    31 ms    29 ms    29 ms  209.85.241.222
 13    30 ms    29 ms    29 ms  209.85.241.207
 14    41 ms    39 ms    34 ms  209.85.243.1
 15    27 ms    27 ms    29 ms  vw-in-f106.1e100.net [74.125.113.106]

Trace complete.

Then I pinged each device for hops 2-4. When the problem occurs the first one in the hop - 74.105.157.1 - runs fine. The second device - 130.81.133.156 - times out, and all other devices further down the chain time out. This clearly suggest that the device:

130.81.133.156 has major problems.

I have mentioned this to tech support, but they have no way for me to send them logs. Apparently the support technicians at Verizon can not be trusted with even the most basic of tools like email and the web. They also shield me from the NT (Network technician), who is so special that even the tech support guys are only allowed to text chat with him, not actually talk to him. I have enough logs here to clearly show what the problem is.

The latest from tech support is that they are sending yet another guy by my house tomorrow to witness this problem firsthand. Then he will call support that will text chat with the NT, and MAYBE they'll start thinking it's not me.

My main question here is: "How do I get Verizon to believe it really could be a problem in their own network?"

Here are some threads from last year that explain exactly the same problem I'm having. So it wasn't just me:

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-TV-Technical-Assistance/Verizon-FIOS-intermittent-connection-drops...

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/FiOS-Internet/Intermittent-Network-Timeouts/m-p/28138

One person said Verizon finally fixed it by replacing a PON card. I'm not sure if this is the same problem as that though.

I am an avid Starcraft player and this is driving me crazy because I am getting dropped from my games all the time. Also phone conversations suck when there's these big lags where I can't hear who I'm talking to.

I have had Verizon FIOS internet for 3 years now and this is the first problem I've ever had with it. But I'm starting to get majorly frustrated at how long it's taking to resolve the problem.

Here is a sample of the ping logs I was talking about for different devices all at the same time.

Device 2 in the Trace Route:

Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=41ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=126
Reply from 74.105.157.1: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=126

Device 3 in the Trace Route:

Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=253
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=253
Reply from 130.81.133.156: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=253

Device 4 in the Trace Route:

Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=252
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=252
Reply from 130.81.30.148: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=252

Any help, thoughts, suggestions, etc would be great appreciated!

~David

[jwaldrop1]

I understand your logic, but you have not eliminated 74.105.157.1 as the problem.  It could be allowing packets out, like outside callers hearing you, but not allow them back in. Since you have results pinging out, trying ping back in. Use this packet loss tool.  You do not need to catch it when it's not working because this tool will ping your IP address (and all the hops in between) for up to 7 days. You will easily see when packet loss is occurring.

If it can successfully ping 74.105.157.1 when the problem occurrs, then 130.81.133.156 is not the issue. This may not help dealing with the personalities at Verizon, but it will help definitively knowing which device is the issue.

[stubbie1]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have setup the ping test, and look forward to the results.

Also, I take it I have convinced you that the problem is not me? Any suggestions on how to convince Verizon of this?

Thanks,

~David

[GoBlando]

Wish I could tell you.  I am experiencing it as well.  After 3 years of nearly perfect service, it is now causing headaches.  I thought in the beginning it was my computer, but then I discovered that every computer in the house was experiencing it.

I don't know if the technical support team will even take my call.  I am going to try a release and renew to see if a new network configuration is needed.  Perhaps they are moving away from the current network and my release will get me routing on new hardware.

[DP-Philly]

I am seeing the same thing down in Philly...EXACT same symptoms, only different IP addresses involved.  There seems to be some issue between the first and second hop FiOS routers.  But why this would start happening in to different markets (NE NJ and Philly) at the exact same time...that's wierd.  I can see a faulty card, or overloaded circuit.  But for it to occur in two different regions at the same time is pretty unusual. 

[GoBlando]

I just pinged google.com for 1 second for 2 hours.  I had a 1% packet loss 113 of 8463 sent.  Very sad.  This is very bad for Starcraft for me.  Also, this just started happening with the last 4-5 days so any Admin in Verizon's data center should be able to identify the problem and repair it.  I need to investigate the SLA I have as part of my account.

[stubbie1]

Verizon support came by today and I believe I've now made some good progress. They identified the problem as one in their own network, I believe a PON card, and said they will fix it in the next 48 hours- but most likely late tonight.

They said it would be affecting 36 customers in my region. The problem is still there now, but I'm hopeful that I can report tomorrow that the problem has been fixed!

~David

[GoBlando]

I did a chat session with a tech support rep and copy pasted the two pings and they said I would get a call in the next 24 hours as well when they have it resolved.

[DP-Philly]

What region are you in?

[stubbie1]

So the issue is still not fixed at this point. They did say 48 hours, but I'm starting to lose confidence now that this problem will actually be fixed.

I am based in Bloomfield, NJ. From what Verizon said they thought the problem I'm having would only affect the local area. But who knows?

~David