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High Ping on Fios - Need help.
Tsuki
Newbie

Hi Everyone,

I have spoken to 3 verizon agents and changed my router but still experiencing issues.  Reaching out to the community for help.  Here is my frustration in detail.  Up till last week, I had good speeds (on 15/5 plan) and average around 10-20ms pings so everything was running smoothly.  I was very happy with the performance but then everything went downhill.  The speed is still good but now I’m getting 60ms pings in the early mornings, 150ms pings in the afternoon, and at night (prime time) 300-400ms ping.  The first 2 agents I spoke ran the optimizer, ran various tests, and finally sent me a new router which didn’t resolve it.  The 3rd agent I spoke - I tried explaining that it’s not an issue with speed at all.  I’m getting good speed but high ping which means (from my understanding) there is issue with the routing of the traffic?  If I do tracert to google.com, verizon.net, or any other site, the ping jumps and sometimes there is Request Timed Out.  I believe there is indeed an issue on Verizon server end but the agent kept insisting that the high ping is coming from outside their network so they can’t do anything about it.  I mean, if it’s a single site like google, then fine, maybe google is having issues but it’s EVERY single site giving me high ping.  The whole world wide web can’t be returning a slow response.  After stating that point, the agent told me 300ms ping is .3 seconds, which is still very fast and acceptable.  To me that’s NOT acceptable at all.. This is 2012 and fiber optics.  If Verizon tells me that they feel 300ms ping is acceptable on fiber optics, then I might as well get dial-up.

If anyone can offer any help, it would be really appreciated.  I’m extremely tired of speaking to agents who doesn’t seem to want to take accountability on the issue and tell me they can’t do anything.  If this doesn’t get resolved in next few days, I will need to cancel. 

I really expected more from Verizon.  They are known to have great customer service and support.  Very disappointed.

Read On for Conspiracy theory thought :

Ok, so all this happened the day after I spoke to a CSR (called in to get some of my account info – not related to connection issues) who tried to get me to upgrade to the next tier.  He kept urging me to upgrade and I told him I’m happy with my speed and don’t need to upgrade.  The next day after this call I started having issues.  Are they purposing throttling me?  Or set some kind of limitation on my connection so I’ll be like "Oh I do need higher speed and upgrade after all"? 

Thanks.

[Edit] Just for everyone's info, I work in technology (though not networking) so I have knowledge on how all this works.  I have done all the usual checks to make sure it's not an issue with my computer.  [/Edit]

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
Hubrisnxs
Legend

hi, that is an unusually high ping time,  can you do the traceroute again and post the results here?  we can take a look and see where the problem is happening and might be able to point you in the right direction. 

also if you could download MTR (it's an advanced traceroute system-Freeware) and gives more details. 

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
Tsuki
Newbie

Here are tracert for 3 different times in the day.

1:00AM

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Mei>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.google.com [173.194.75.106]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms 1 ms 1 ms Wireless_Broadband_Router.home [192.168.1.1]
2 15 ms 9 ms 9 ms L100.NWRKNJ-VFTTP-62.verizon-gni.net {edited for privacy}
3 48 ms 38 ms 37 ms G4-3-562.NWRKNJ-LCR-05.verizon-gni.net [130.81.97.8]
4 135 ms 48 ms 46 ms so-6-0-2-0.NWRK-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.28.148]
5 63 ms 54 ms 52 ms 0.so-7-1-0.XL3.EWR6.ALTER.NET [152.63.17.141]
6 46 ms 47 ms 38 ms 0.so-6-0-2.XT1.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.10.21]
7 88 ms 40 ms 53 ms TenGigE0-4-4-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.18.202]
8 15 ms 31 ms 17 ms google-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.62]
9 11 ms 10 ms 105 ms 72.14.238.232
10 62 ms 20 ms 27 ms 209.85.252.2
11 60 ms 62 ms 55 ms 72.14.239.93
12 32 ms 55 ms 35 ms 209.85.241.222
13 70 ms 35 ms 70 ms 216.239.48.183
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 88 ms 81 ms 80 ms ve-in-f106.1e100.net [173.194.75.106]

Trace complete.

8:00AM

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Mei>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.google.com [173.194.73.147]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms <1 ms <1 ms Wireless_Broadband_Router.home [192.168.1.1]
2 16 ms 9 ms 9 ms L100.NWRKNJ-VFTTP-62.verizon-gni.net {edited for privacy}
3 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms G4-3-562.NWRKNJ-LCR-05.verizon-gni.net [130.81.97.8]
4 18 ms 9 ms 9 ms so-6-0-2-0.NWRK-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.28.148]
5 12 ms 8 ms 9 ms 0.so-7-1-0.XL3.EWR6.ALTER.NET [152.63.17.141]
6 21 ms 17 ms 28 ms 0.so-1-0-1.XT1.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.213]
7 22 ms 16 ms 13 ms TenGigE0-4-1-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.69]
8 16 ms 19 ms 18 ms google-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.62]
9 11 ms 11 ms 17 ms 72.14.238.232
10 14 ms 23 ms 19 ms 209.85.252.2
11 18 ms 18 ms 20 ms 209.85.249.11
12 34 ms 28 ms 30 ms 209.85.243.114
13 36 ms 29 ms 29 ms 64.233.174.87
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 33 ms 29 ms 29 ms vb-in-f147.1e100.net [173.194.73.147]

Trace complete.

8:00PM

 

C:\Documents and Settings\Mei>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.google.com [173.194.73.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms Wireless_Broadband_Router.home [192.168.1.1]
2 13 ms 10 ms 8 ms L100.NWRKNJ-VFTTP-62.verizon-gni.net {edited for privacy}
3 173 ms 167 ms 176 ms G4-3-562.NWRKNJ-LCR-05.verizon-gni.net [130.81.97.8]
4 200 ms 187 ms 167 ms so-6-0-2-0.NWRK-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.28.148]
5 152 ms 227 ms 176 ms 0.xe-8-1-0.XL3.NYC1.ALTER.NET [152.63.5.213]
6 170 ms 165 ms 168 ms 0.xe-8-1-0.GW13.NYC1.ALTER.NET [152.63.4.133]
7 71 ms 63 ms 66 ms google-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.249.6]
8 43 ms 21 ms 20 ms 72.14.239.248
9 215 ms 195 ms 199 ms 209.85.252.2
10 186 ms 32 ms 26 ms 72.14.239.93
11 207 ms 59 ms 209 ms 209.85.241.222
12 199 ms 34 ms 203 ms 64.233.174.117
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 187 ms 189 ms 184 ms vb-in-f99.1e100.net [173.194.73.99]

Trace complete.

 

 

 

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
Hubrisnxs
Legend

well it looks like when it gets bad is at the google hops (209.85.252.2) for example.

 

 

This is kinda a long shot, but try it.  

 

The trick here is that you have to leave your router dead (no power no nothing) for at least 5-10 minutes.  Don't take that number lightly, because if you turn it on too fast, you run the risk of grabbing the same ip address from their head end.  

 

Again a long shot, but try to release your IP address, and then as soon as you release the ip address, immediately turn off your router.  and come back to it at least 5-10 minutes later.

 

The goal here, to me, is to get a new ip and hopefully a new route that is good.  If it's truly a problem at googles end (which is possible because they have been chincy on bandwidth upgrades since they bought youtube) then there might not be a lot you can do in the short term.   nothing immediate comes to mind at least.  but we have a lot of experienced users here, so I would also check back and let us know if the dhcp thing helps, or at least to pick up some differing opinions.   

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
Tsuki
Newbie

Thanks for the suggestion but it did not work.

Just to reiterate, I'm getting these numbers for every single server/website/company I trace route to.  It can be yahoo.com, microsoft.com, apple.com, and even verizon.net themselves.  I don't think it's plausible that every single server out there is giving back a slow response.  

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
tns
Master

@Tsuki wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion but it did not work.

Just to reiterate, I'm getting these numbers for every single server/website/company I trace route to.  It can be yahoo.com, microsoft.com, apple.com, and even verizon.net themselves.  I don't think it's plausible that every single server out there is giving back a slow response.  


The internet is a huge complex of different servers/devices run by many different entities.  Verizon can only be held responsisble for slow responses on their part of the network.  At least the traces you provided show the problem as elsewhere in the network.  In the case you showed it looks to be in a google server.

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
smith6612
Super User
Super User

2 13 ms 10 ms 8 ms L100.NWRKNJ-VFTTP-62.verizon-gni.net {edited for privacy}
3 173 ms 167 ms 176 ms G4-3-562.NWRKNJ-LCR-05.verizon-gni.net [130.81.97.8]

These two hops have a problematic link. Verizon needs to fix this problem, not Google/Yahoo/whoever. Let me see if I can get someone.

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
Anthony_VZ
Master

I am sorry to hear about the high ping times you are getting on Verizons servers. We would like to take a look at this to see what's going on. We need more specific information about your account, so we have copied your post to our private support board. Please refer all correspondences to there from here on out. You can easily get to the private support one of two ways. In the email you signed up for the forums with, you will receive a link to click on. Make sure you are already signed into the forums before clicking on this link. Another way of getting there is by clicking on your username anywhere you see it in the forums. This brings you to your account profile. Scroll down to the section labeled "My Support Cases" . In there you will see the link to your case.

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
tns
Master

@Smith6612 wrote:

2 13 ms 10 ms 8 ms L100.NWRKNJ-VFTTP-62.verizon-gni.net {edited for privacy}
3 173 ms 167 ms 176 ms G4-3-562.NWRKNJ-LCR-05.verizon-gni.net [130.81.97.8]

These two hops have a problematic link. Verizon needs to fix this problem, not Google/Yahoo/whoever. Let me see if I can get someone.



SInce the ping response time goes down on hops  after that its really not significant.  Lots of these intermediate servers have pings at the lowest priority, and some are set to never respond.

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Re: High Ping on Fios - Need help.
smith6612
Super User
Super User

They go down but they are also all over the place too. Even to hops beyond that you're seeing plenty of latency, and considering how awfully slow Windows' traceroute utility runs it's adding in additional factors not being measured. If anything an MTR should be ran.

The hop can have high latency if it's under load or is set to not respond to them with priority but everything else better spit out clean or it's no good. You can't have 3-5 Alter.net (Verizon Business) hops followed with Google hops seeing shoddy latency. ICMP/UDP Echo traffic can be de-prioritized from one router and be queued en-route to upstream routers, but that is a bad network practice and should never, ever be done in the backbone. Backbone router's job is to deliver the traffic efficently, not try to manage Tens to Hundreds of Gigabits by delaying certain types of traffic. The edge router on both ends and the client/servier device has the job of managing QoS of the connection.

Verizon's network doesn't normally pass ICMP traffic poorly after a router of theres. For example, see this trace:

Tracing route to www.google.com [173.194.73.105]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.3.1
  2     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  10.41.15.1
  3     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  P1-0.BFLONY-LCR-01.verizon-gni.net [130.81.195.144]
  4    16 ms    16 ms    16 ms  so-6-3-0-0.NWRK-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.28.138]
  5    16 ms    17 ms    16 ms  0.ge-0-3-0.XL3.EWR6.ALTER.NET [152.63.5.221]
  6    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  0.so-1-0-1.XT1.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.213]
  7    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  TenGigE0-6-2-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.21.117]
  8    71 ms    71 ms    70 ms  google-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.62]
  9    18 ms    17 ms    17 ms  72.14.238.232
 10    19 ms    18 ms    19 ms  209.85.251.88
 11    25 ms    25 ms    25 ms  209.85.249.11
 12    37 ms    37 ms    36 ms  209.85.241.222
 13    36 ms    35 ms    35 ms  209.85.251.228
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15    36 ms    37 ms    35 ms  vb-in-f105.1e100.net [173.194.73.105]

Trace complete.

And another...

Tracing route to ds-any-fp3-real.wa1.b.yahoo.com [98.139.183.24]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.3.1
  2     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  10.41.15.1
  3     7 ms     6 ms     7 ms  P1-0.BFLONY-LCR-02.verizon-gni.net [130.81.195.222]
  4    25 ms    25 ms    25 ms  P11-0-0.BFLONY-LCR-01.verizon-gni.net [130.81.27.62]
  5    17 ms    16 ms    17 ms  so-6-3-0-0.NWRK-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.28.138]
  6    27 ms    26 ms    25 ms  xe-3-1-1-0.RES-BB-RTR1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.23.155]
  7    26 ms    27 ms    26 ms  so-6-0-0-0.ASH-PEER-RTR1-re1.verizon-gni.net [130.81.10.90]
  8    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  130.81.15.110
  9    25 ms    25 ms    26 ms  ae-6.pat2.dce.yahoo.com [216.115.102.176]
 10    31 ms    32 ms    32 ms  ae-4.pat2.che.yahoo.com [216.115.101.145]
 11    32 ms    34 ms    32 ms  UNKNOWN-216-115-96-X.yahoo.com [216.115.96.117]
 12    41 ms    42 ms    43 ms  ae-3.msr2.bf1.yahoo.com [216.115.100.31]
 13    42 ms    42 ms    43 ms  ae-3.msr1.bf1.yahoo.com [216.115.100.29]
 14    43 ms    42 ms    41 ms  xe-4-0-0.clr2-a-gdc.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.232.83]
 15    55 ms    57 ms    70 ms  et-18-25.fab8-1-gdc.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.128.67]
 16    45 ms    45 ms    45 ms  ir2.fp.vip.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.183.24]

Trace complete.

Google's Gateway router with Verizon clearly shows a sign of possible problems and it was in the past, but it has ICMP response set as low priority, since the trace is quite clean going to Google's network. The trace to Yahoo! also reflect this. I see extra latency on Verizon hops but the trace comes out clean afterwards.

Point of the matter is, if it was just ICMP traffic the user shouldn't be seeing additional latency on the programs they themselves are running which from the sounds of their post, they certainly are. Yahoo! and Google have ICMP traffic set to low priority as well and normally my trace to Yahoo! gets pretty nasty looking during the day, but it still feels 40ms even when ICMP shows 500+ms.

Speed can still arrive even with latency, so there's one factor to already keep in mind. If the user is seeing latency, it's either intentional or a problem. Intentional would not cause performance issues speed or latent wise for the user.

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