Skip to main content
Accessibility Resource Center Skip to main content
Have a phone you love? Get up to $500 when you bring your phone.
end of navigation menu
Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

Similar to intermittent problems I've had since November, 2012.  Getting DSL drops now, rather than PPP drops.   Old issues documented in http://forums.verizon.com/t5/High-Speed-Internet-DSL-and-Dial/Intermittent-PPP-outages-DSL-disconnec...

Had four total DSL drops today.  I have 3 Mbps plan, speeds dropped to as low as 32 Kbps, per Westell 327W modem status.

Tried working with Vz chat-based support.  Despite fact that speedtest.net confirms modem status info, agent wants to screw around with screen share and PC settings -- even though all PCs on net see same modem status info.  Must follow fault determination menus, rather than symptoms.  Sigh...

Is there any way to get Vz to deal with these sorts of problems or must I switch providers?

327W -- Connection Overview -- DSL Connect Rate (Down/Up) 416 KBits/Sec by 640 KBits/Sec

Transceiver Revision: 1.0.9.0
Vendor ID Code: 4
Line Mode: G.DMT Mode
Data Path: Interleaved
Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 416 640
Margin (dB) 12.0 9.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 56.0 31.5
Transmit Power (dBm) 13.7 11.0

http://www.giganews.com/line_info.html (currently on 108.4.117. xxx subnet)  --

6 P0-0-0-0.RCMDVA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net (130.81.22.31) 35 ms T0-5-3-0.RCMDVA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net (130.81.29.115) 36 ms P0-0-0-0.RCMDVA-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net (130.81.22.31) 34 ms
7 G4-1.RCMDVA-RCMDVAGR-ERXG04.verizon-gni.net (130.81.198.163) 23 ms 21 ms 23 ms

0 Likes
1 Solution

Correct answers
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
smith6612
MVP MVP
MVP

@secdroid wrote:

@Smith6612

 

I am getting conflicting advice from another Vz person who is handling my issue.  Got a call from Vz this morning and here's what I learned -- 

  • There is an automatic optimization protocol running against my line.  That is why the speed has been increasing and the noise margin has been decreasing
  • I was told that as long as I din't experience "sync loss" (DSL DOWN/UP?) the noise margin shouldn't be an issue
  • My antique Westell Versalink 327W (assembled 05/2005) might be an issue.  Four newer routers have been shipped since then.  I didn't ask, nor was I told, whether a firmware update would help.
  • Vz was going to close my ticket and I have 30 days to request that it be reopened

The Vz person who has been phoning me about the issue has been professional and helpful, but he doesn't seem to be perfectly in sync with the actual tech and engineers.


Thanks. As mentioned, the optimization system (ASSIA) is in fact running. With stats like that you will see the program will bounce you down to 1.5Mbps/384kbps again and then settle down. 2112, 2528, 2992 downstream and 448, 640 upstream are the available speeds that the Optimization can pick from between your current speed and the 1.5Mbps profile.

They are correct though. If you are not seeing sync issues, AND you are not receiving enough CRC errors to damage ATM cells, ultimately resulting in data loss and stalls (Something routinely overlooked when dealing with these sort of issues) then you are fine with those stats. My line for example runs with a downstream noise margin of 7, upstream margin of 9 and it is rock solid. 5Mbps across 2 miles of copper. That's also because I don't have an issue with noise causing CRC Errors.

FYI: CRC = Uncorrected errors. FEC = Correctables.

The 327w units I find tend to be rock solid, so when it croaks it will croak slowly. The westell 7500 I find tends to hold out well too with some marginal lines so you can ask Verizon for one of those. Otherwise, you'll get a D-Link which I haven't tested myself, yet.

Anyways, here's what you'll want to do if you're seeing drops (Pay attention to your speed, especially upstream. If it changes, you're dropping) or if your transfers are stalling or hanging routinely. Before Verizon closes your ticket, contact them and have someone who has the capability to adjust your profile change the speed on your line card itself rather than through the computerized provisioning system. It's highly unsupported from a support standpoint as it causes automated line tests to fail and complain, and the router would have to hold a 3Mbps QoS profile on Verizon's end but it can be done. The automatic optimization system can be disabled. It's disabled on my line for example, because I have 5Mbps + FastPath on gear that is not qualified for 5Mbps service (3M Max) which is set directly in the line card. The router also has a manual profile set for me to get the 5M on Verizon's end since the backend database will also not allow anything higher than 3M and thus, won't provision 5M. Everything was done manually within a few minutes while on the phone.

View solution in original post

Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

Additional information, in case it might help.

Using same Westell Versalink 327W and WAN<->modem cable that I've been using for a number of years.  Using Vz-supplied cable (~ 10 feet?) to connect modem to WAN via wall jack.  No additional devices connected to WAN.  No filters or devices between modem and WAN.  Wall jack is about 8 feet from where Vz cable enters premises (NID?)  No analog phones or filters -- dry loop DSL (formerly had phone).

Have never had intermittent issues until November 2012.  Vz DSL had been highly reliable, with occasional DNS and/or routing issues.  Rare DSL/PPP outages had been brief and probably due to routine network maintenance.

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
1billb1
Newbie

I know what you are talking about I am having the same problem with Verizon my location is in Berwick pa. I was getting 7.0 service for 2 1/2 years with no problem then we had a lighting storm and my modem got hit that night got the new modem and now I have intermittent problem Verizon sent out 2 guy to check line 1 st guy said everything is OK but still have problem so when 2nd guy comes he said my phones are bad I change out phone with new ones still have problem now Verizon tells me you are to far from central location I say my house has not moved from where it was before lighting storm . They say my lines can not handle 7.0 that is why they have to down grade my service I say it did flawlessly for 2 1/2 years why now then they say well super storm sandy is to blame now they just do not what to fix their problem they would rather just down grade the  service to you and say well just cause we advertise 1.1 to 15 mb does not mean you can get that it means we can charge a higher rate then then if we just said 1.1 to 3.0 /3.0 to /7.0 to 15.0 they say we offer it so there not that we can provide it .

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

Very interesting.

I used to live in California and dealt with a dial-up provider called Best.  The great thing about Best--vs--Verizon was that Best would run you through the menus and then ***rapidly*** kick you up to second level support when a problem was beyond the capabilities of first level support.

Verizon, OTOH, seems to doom their customers to never interacting with second level support, even when the issue obviously can not be solved by first level.  

This is *not* to knock first level support.  They serve an important function in keeping the Internet affordable.  Vz, unlike other providers I've used, seems to be uniquely incabapable of determining when an issue needs to be forwarded to second (or higher) level support.  

The issue isn't the people at first level; the issue is that their menus don't help them to escalate appropriately.

BTW, I've worked at second level and above.

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

Progress!

Got an email directing me to respond privately, resulting in a Vz service form to fill out. 

PPP went down this evening -- because Vz was actually checking out my line.  Got a telephone call confirming that issue was not my equipment.  Diagnostics confirmed problem in card at CO.  Vz will swap card either Saturday or Monday.

Also got a trouble ticket number and name, number, and extension to call if problem recurs.  Very professional.

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

More progress.  Vz called and said they wanted to send out a technician.  What I learned might help others.

Tech pulled the WAN cable from my modem/router and plugged it into a test device.  He then moved out to the service port on the (NID?) cable entrance to the premises and then finally out to a Vz service box in the back yard.

He said that my intermittent was caused by low noise margin.  He removed a (Vz-installed) bridge tap and my noise margin improved from 5.5 to 14.

Now it gets interesting.

When I first got DSL (7 or 8 years ago), I was near the maximum distance from the CO for 1.5 Mbps service.

When I switched to dry loop last year, they bumped up my speed.  Paying for 3 Mbps although I never quite got full speed.  Still, faster than the old 1.5 Mbps.  How could I get more speed than originally possible at this distance?  Improved CO equipment.

Turns out that the increased speed also meant lower noise margins, which meant lower reliability.  Tech says still not much 3 Mbps in my area.  The bridge tap was OK at slower speed, but unacceptable at higher speed.

Tech consulted with someone in network engineering to see if my line could be reconfigured for full 3 Mbps.  Engineer said that he could try but could not bump it back down to the current "optimized" setting.  I said to leave it alone.  I want reliability.

Current DSL transceiver stats:

  • DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 2528 736
  • Margin (dB) 12.0 10.0
  • Line Attenuation (dB) 56.5 31.5
  • Transmit Power (dBm) 16.8 11.0

Morale of the story is that determining the maximum speed available at any given customer premises is something of an art.  Just because the distance calculator used by the Business Office says that you are eligible to purchase a particular speed configuration does not necessarily mean that the speed can be provided reliably.  It may be necessary to reduce your configured speed to increase reliability.

I was told to call the Business Office and ask to be configured for 1.5 Mbps if I have continued reliability issues.

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

More stable than before, but speed is up and noise margin is down (and variable)

DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 3360 736
Margin (dB) 7.5 10.0

And note the drop (not caused by me, modem powered up since Sat.)...


MON FEB 04 10:22:10 2013
Setting System clock to Network time MON FEB 04 10:22:10 2013


MON FEB 04 10:21:58 2013
Received PADT for session id 4743

MON FEB 04 10:21:49 2013
US Atten: 31.5 DS Atten: 56.5

MON FEB 04 10:21:49 2013
US Margin: 10.0 DS Margin: 9.0

MON FEB 04 10:21:49 2013
US Tx Power: 11.0 DS Tx Power: 16.7

MON FEB 04 10:21:49 2013
US DSL Rate: 736 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate: 3360 kbits/sec

MON FEB 04 10:21:49 2013
WanMgr reports DSL is UP

MON FEB 04 10:21:26 2013
WanMgr reports DSL is Down

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
lilhighway
Enthusiast

sec did you try changing the phone filters? the other possible problem is you might wanna try to update the modem firmware

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

lilhighway: "sec did you try changing the phone filters? the other possible problem is you might wanna try to update the modem firmware"

No phone filters.  No phone!  Dry loop DSL.  Modem is the only connection to WAN and 10/100 Ethernet switch is only LAN connection.

Vz didn't suggest firmware update.  While I don't think that is the issue, I'd be happy to update if they think it would help.

0 Likes
Re: Intermittent DSL drops/speed drops -- Mechanicsville VA 23111
secdroid
Enthusiast

I know that Vz is actively monitoring this thread.  I'm going to post some stats in the hope that it will help.

As you can see from the diagnostic log excerpts, the modem was rebooted hours after the tech did his thing.  (Unless time zone had not been set yet and this is GMT time stamp.)

It has not been rebooted, reset, or turned off since then.  I've done nothing that will cause a DSL drop.  The only config change was to disable and then re-enable WiFi WPA-PSK to accomodate a device that has trouble authenticating.

Symptoms since tech visit:

  • Two unexplained DSL drops
  • Several instances of DS speed increases
  • Several instances of DS NM decreases, now down to unacceptable value

Current stats:
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 3360 736
Margin (dB) 6.0 10.0

Log excerpt from tech visit to-date, with comments bracketed by "/*...*/"

/* Current to Date: February 6, 2013 Time: 8:40:47 */
/* Time since last boot.... 3 days, 20 hrs: 31 mins: 47 secs */

SAT FEB 02 17:09:01 2013
Product: WireSpeed Data Gateway Model: 4 Port Gateway
/* Modem boot after service tech */

SAT FEB 02 17:09:22 2013
US DSL Rate: 736 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate: 2528 kbits/sec

SAT FEB 02 17:09:22 2013
US Margin: 10.0 DS Margin: 14.0

SUN FEB 03 08:49:06 2013
WanMgr reports DSL is Down
/* Unexplained DSL drop */

SUN FEB 03 08:49:23 2013
WanMgr reports DSL is UP

SUN FEB 03 08:49:23 2013
US DSL Rate: 736 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate: 2944 kbits/sec
/* Note: speed increased */

SUN FEB 03 08:49:23 2013
US Margin: 10.0 DS Margin: 11.0
/* Note: decreased DS NM */

MON FEB 04 10:21:26 2013
WanMgr reports DSL is Down
/* Unexplained DSL drop */

MON FEB 04 10:21:49 2013
US DSL Rate: 736 kbits/sec DS DSL Rate: 3360 kbits/sec
/* Note: speed increased */

MON FEB 04 10:21:49 2013
US Margin: 10.0 DS Margin: 9.0
/* Note: decreased DS NM */

/* No further significant events noted */

0 Likes