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Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
Hubrisnxs
Legend

you guys hearing yourselves?

Off peak it's fine,  on peak (even though your speed is the same from Verizon) Netflix Slows????????

But that's a Verizon issue?  

I mean at a glance that really sounds like an issue where they aren't providing enough bandwidth for their servers to stream out to the net.

think about it this way.

Pretend you're trying to get a video from ME.    You have FiOS and I have FiOS

Off peak hours, you stream fine,   it's just you and maybe one other person getting a video from me. 

During peak hours it's TERRIBLE.  Because WHY?!?!!?  because you and the entire NEIGHBORHOOD are trying to get the same video's from ME with the same connection.

You go elsewhere like hulu or amazon prime and it streams fine. 

Doesn't that sound like my bandwidth is just full or over utilized, or over subscribed?   

Doesn't it sound like I just need to pay for a bigger pipe?  or do you think I can go to verizon and say "hey Verizon, I need more of that sweet carolina free bandwidth you're offering...."

Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
eljefe2
Master

Well said Hubrinsnx!  I've used a similar analogy in several discussions on the subject.

It makes sense to me that your or I couldn't start up a service where we created tremendous demand for something we had available for streaming, and then reasonably expect the rest of the Internet world to provide the bandwidth we're requiring.

I don't know what a reasonable solution would be but I suspect it's along the lines of providers like Netflix, Amazon, etc, spreading out servers to more geographcial locations to better cover the globe without saturating specific pipelines.

Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
geschinger1
Enthusiast

Hubrisnxs, it absolutely is a Verizon issue.

Netflix has plenty of bandwidth to the data center where the handoff is sone.  The problem is that Verizon is letting their ports become saturated and they are refusing to do the (relatively inexpensive) upgrades to increase port capacity.  When a cirucit starts to get saturated until recently with Comcast and Verizon the standard operating procesdure with ISPs was to increase port capacity to handle the incoming traffic.  Why aren't they upgrading the port capacity?  Because they are trying to setu a situation where they can double dip by charging the content provider and the content consumer.  

Verizon has a handoff from the tranist provider that handles Netflix traffic and during peak hours that circuit is becoming saturated.  If Verizon acted properly they'd add another port to accept the amount of traffic their customer are requesting from that transit provider.  Instead they choose to let it sit there in its stautrated state dropping packets and making the experience for their customers awful.   

The issue is all on Verizon as it is the Verizon handoff that is saturated rather than anything w/the tranist provider.

Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
geschinger1
Enthusiast

eljefe, in the case of Netflix the do.  The problem is Verizon refuses to update their infrastructure to accept the traffic that the providers are trying to pass through to the Verizon customer who are demanding that traffic.  

Traffic flows through the internet fine from Netlix to the transit provider until it gets to the handoff to Verizon.  The bottleneck is that Verizon has dropped the ball on keeping it's infrastructure upgraded and cannot handle the amount of traffic that the transit provider is trying to hand off.  

The reasonable solution is that Verizon should upgrade it's equipment at the handoff point to accept the traffic that Netflix is trying to give them.   

Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
Hubrisnxs
Legend

that doesn't make any sense.

 and from the traceroutes that we see regularly from people on here, the traffic congestion is rarely on the verizon end.

Just from what we've seen here on the forums

I just wonder why Amazon prime streams fine, same network, same machines, same time of day, and netflix doesn't, how that equals verizon's problem?

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Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
Hubrisnxs
Legend

If netflix gets the free extra bandwidth that they should be paying for, then Point me to that line, because I want some too.

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Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
TennisFreak
Enthusiast

This is a verizon issue without a doubt.

Netflix displayed amazingly on my FIOS until this year right aroudn the time the net neutrality laws changed.

Now Netflix buffers all the time and when it plays it is terrible picture quality (never HD quality)

At the same time Netflix is playing terrible I can check my internet speed and see that I am getting full bandwidth.

At the same time Netflix is playing terrible on my FIOS I can load neteflix up on my LTE phone and stream it in FULL HD with no buffering.

I contacted Verizon and they deny everything.


They want us to subscribe to their streaming services and pay for their movies.  THEY CAN KISS IT. 

I have their FIOS because it is my ONLY OPTION (other than their DSL or satellite).  I will never buy anything other than their lowest FIOS option because of their shady business practices.  No FIOS TV, no phone, no wireless phones, NOTHING.

Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
geschinger1
Enthusiast

Amazon Prime is coming in on a different handoff where the Verizon links are not as saturated.  

Anytime I've done traceroutes the problem is at the handoff point - first hop outside of the Verizon network.  If Verizon customers are requesting X mb of traffic and Verizon only has the infrastructure at the handoff to accept a subset of X  then packets are going to be dropped and service for clients will deteroriate.  That is what is happening with Verizon.

The best thing in the world for consumers would be for the spat between Verizon and Netflix relative to the C&D letter to go to court.  Discovery would go a long way towards documenting that Verizon is the bad actor here.

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Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
geschinger1
Enthusiast

@Hubrisnxs wrote:

If netflix gets the free extra bandwidth that they should be paying for, then Point me to that line, because I want some too.


What free bandwidth?  Netflix is trying to handoff the traffic that Verizon's customers has requested.  Verizon can't handle that amount of traffic despite the fact that in the vast majority of cases it's customer are only asking for an extremly low percentage of the bw they are being charged for.  I.e. I have a 75/35 connection and it's frustrating that Verizon chokes when all I'm asking for is a stream of 1/25th of what I'm paying for.

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Re: Netflix is slow lately on FIOS
Hubrisnxs
Legend

@geschinger wrote:

Amazon Prime is coming in on a different handoff where the Verizon links are not as saturated.  

Anytime I've done traceroutes the problem is at the handoff point - first hop outside of the Verizon network.  If Verizon customers are requesting X mb of traffic and Verizon only has the infrastructure at the handoff to accept a subset of X  then packets are going to be dropped and service for clients will deteroriate.  That is what is happening with Verizon.

The best thing in the world for consumers would be for the spat between Verizon and Netflix relative to the C&D letter to go to court.  Discovery would go a long way towards documenting that Verizon is the bad actor here.


You know who chooses that right?

Amazon and netflix. 

Netflix actually has quite a bit of control.

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In a little known, but public fact, anyone who is on Comcast or Verizon and using Apple TV to stream Netflix wasn’t having quality problems. The reason for this is that Netflix is using Level 3 and Limelight to stream their content specifically to the Apple TV device. What this shows is that Netflix is the one that decides and controls how they get their content to each device and whether they do it via their own servers or a third party. Netflix decides which third party CDNs to use and when Netflix uses their own CDN, they decide whom to buy transit from, with what capacity, in what locations and how many connections they buy, from the transit provider. Netflix is the one in control of this, not Comcast or any ISP.

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See The below articles.

Unbalanced Peering, and the Real Story Behind the Verizon/Cogent Dispute (cogent is one of netflix's providers)

This article details the technical aspect of it, pretty interesting read if you're into that sort of stuff. Verizon Signed a similiar deal with netflix as well
http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2014/02/heres-comcast-netflix-deal-struct...

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