MiFi 4510L gets stuck in "dormant" state

[nsayer]

Firmware v2.23 is far and away better than the older firmware, but still, once or twice a week, the device will fail. The symptoms:

1. WiFi is still connected, but any data I/O simply hangs.

2. vz.hotspot responds, and shows the connection state correctly, except that it is "dormant."

Hitting "Disconnect" waiting and then hitting "connect" works around the problem and brings the connection back up.

The "dormant" state is not sufficient to identify this problem - the mifi connection is often dormant, but when you start doing something, it typically "un-dormants" itself and operates normally. Only sometimes - once or twice a week for me - does it wind up in a state of semi-permanent dormancy.

[John_Getzke]

Hello,

Check your diagnostics log the next time you notice the problem.  Check for any disconnection events that might identify a glitch in the connection.  Sometimes the MiFi will be able to identify a problem with the network and display it in that area.  Your feedback on the ability to hit "Connect" and "Disconnect" to resolve the problems seems to point us in this direction.

Also, share with us your signal strength when the problem happens.  Something may be interfering with your connection that intermittently disconnects/ties you up.  Good 3G signals are -80 dB or lower.  An antenna or booster may be able to help you if your signal strength is higher than that.

You are correct when you say that the "Dormant" state is not sufficient to iden. the problem.  But for now we do not have a better term for this symptom so I understand where you are coming from. 

[nsayer]

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John_Getzke wrote:

Hello,

Check your diagnostics log the next time you notice the problem.  Check for any disconnection events that might identify a glitch in the connection.  Sometimes the MiFi will be able to identify a problem with the network and display it in that area.  Your feedback on the ability to hit "Connect" and "Disconnect" to resolve the problems seems to point us in this direction.

Also, share with us your signal strength when the problem happens.  Something may be interfering with your connection that intermittently disconnects/ties you up.  Good 3G signals are -80 dB or lower.  An antenna or booster may be able to help you if your signal strength is higher than that.

You are correct when you say that the "Dormant" state is not sufficient to iden. the problem.  But for now we do not have a better term for this symptom so I understand where you are coming from. 

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I'll check the diagnostic log next time. I've seen the log (I have it enabled), but it didn't occur to me to look at it.

Since I didn't look at the log, I don't have signal numbers, but I almost never see anything less than 4 bars. I don't really recall this being associated with a lack of a strong signal. Even the 2G network on my iPhone is virtually always 4 or 5 bars around here (Silicon Valley). I don't have a consistent location where this happens. I think it has happened most on CalTrain, but then, I mostly use the MiFi on CalTrain, so that doesn't say a lot.

The only other kind of event I can recall since upgrading to 2.23 was the LTE outage a few days ago, but that's not worth bringing up.

[nsayer]

It may or may not have happened again this morning. I captured the logs, but after I did so, I checked it and the connection had come back. Looking at the log after that showed nothing more than the usual into and out of Dormant state messages.

Here's what I captured:
System Status
System Log> HTML Version 26. 
12/14/11 08:09:52am> Current Time
12/14/11 08:09:44am> LTE in Dormant State
12/14/11 08:09:31am> First opening Index.html
12/14/11 08:09:27am> NWPM_EVENT_CALL_CONNECTED
12/14/11 08:09:27am> LTE Connected
12/14/11 08:09:17am> LTE Connection Failed
12/14/11 08:09:06am> LTE Connection Failed
12/14/11 08:08:55am> LTE Connection Failed
12/14/11 08:08:42am> [DHCP] Assign IP 192.168.1.2  Xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
12/14/11 08:07:35am> WMS IMS registered
12/14/11 08:07:18am> SIM Ready
12/14/11 08:07:18am> NWPM_EVENT_SIM_READY
12/14/11 08:07:14am> Start AP with battery
12/14/11 08:07:14am> NWPM_EVENT_MODE_ONLINE


MDN: xxxxxxxxxx
MEID: Blah blah
Channel: 0
P_REV Indicator: 6
PRL ID: 15041
Band Class Type: LTE BAND13
ERI Version: 4
Dormancy: FALSE
Signal - EVDO: Not Available
Signal - 1X: Not Available
Signal - LTE: -63 dBm
SINR - LTE: 19 dB
Battery Level: 4
Battery Charging: 0
Ec/Io : 19 dB

[John_Getzke]

What you captured here is a disconnection event from the LTE network.  It looks like the device was able to recover on its own after about 30 seconds.  Doesn't surprise me if you noticed your device was not working during that time.  Browsing would have been able to recover but streaming content/VPN's would have been broken.  The logs are consistent with what you have described so far.

I'm thinking this is more of a network problem but we cannot really be sure.  A device failure could have happened on your SIM card in which case resetting should resolve or show signs of improvement.  Network failures would have to be corrected by Verizon.  The towers in the area may not be transferring you over correctly as you roam about.  You could also be drowned out by other users as the towers prioritize other traffic over your own.  Would you happen to be in a highly congested wireless area when this happened such as a coffee shop, airport or office building?

Your LTE signal strength at the time of this log looks to be good so I dont think that would be an issue.  Your MiFi must have 3G disabled because it is not reporting a statistic for EVDO.  SINR is the interferance in the area, mine is normally around 30dB but I am also not in a 4G area.

Keep logging for us and see if there are any consistencies.

[nsayer]

I don't have CDMA disabled. I have noted that you always get "not available" for the SS for the connection mode you aren't using.

[nsayer]

I caught it doing it again this afternoon. The log says nothing unusual; the last thing before the top is that it entered the Dormant state. The LTE signal strength is -63 dBm, which ought to be plenty.

And this time it didn't recover on its own. I had to perform a disconnect/connect cycle from vz.hotspot.

It's getting super, super annoying.

[ocean_pilot]

You can say that again.

How's that saying go "america's most reliable network"?

I'm coming to the conlusion that this sort of thing with the 4510L (as well as their smart phones) is LARGELY a network and/or bandwidth problem and verizon knows full well what causes these kinds of  problems but just isn't about to admit the real reasons.

Fast rollouts of new technology always does.

An let's face it .... it's the American way!

Otherwise, they would lite a fire under their hardware provider to FIX the hardware internal software and do it NOW, or we're gonna cancel you and quit selling your product.

It's taken what ..... 7 months to get to the current version 2.23 and it still has obvious problems, including primitive, error prone upgrade procedures.  Verizon's taking ownership of customer problems with hardware they sell is disgraceful.  Just look at the blog.

I assume it has been noted the recent purchase of added spectrum from three cable companies.  Uh Huh.

The chincy 5 and 10 gig data plans with absurdly expensive pricing for them for the 4510L  will probably send me back to cable when my contract expires.

Life's too short.

Cheers ....

[nsayer]

Happened again this morning. Nothing in the log other than LTE in dormant state. Dis- and re-connect brings it back. Seems like it's happening more often. It's not happening in what I would consider to be an overburdened area. Basically, it's the heart of suburbia in Silicon Valley this time - Southeast Santa Clara.

[John_Getzke]

We might have reached the limits of public troubleshooting then.  If the device is no longer recording or detecting the disconnection event then it will be very difficult to move forward.  Without a window into the device to see what its doing we really wont know what the problem is or how to correct it.

I would keep logging the disconnects for a week or two.  Take note of the time, location, and what you were doing at the time of the problem.  After you reconnect you could also try running a site survey tool to see if there are any competing wireless signals in the area.  I like to use the one provided by meraki:

http://tools.meraki.com/stumbler#q=

If the problem is a deal breaker atleast you have a running log of the disconnection events and can try for reimbursement.  I have seen some threads where users successfully recieved reimbursement for these devices, but I can only speculate as to what they needed to provide for Verizon to agree to it.  Logging and detailing the problems makes the most sence to me. 

[RUn2it]

All that the Meraki thing did was show me the same info the computer already shows unless I missed a button or something

[John_Getzke]

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RUn2it wrote:

All that the Meraki thing did was show me the same info the computer already shows unless I missed a button or something

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The Meraki tool displays more information than your Wireless Network Connections window on your computer.  What is normally the most helpful is to actually see the different wireless channels and signals.  For example, when there are competing Wireless N signals on the same channel as the MiFi the MiFi signal may be getting overpowered and drowned out.   We have seen many instances of that scenario on these forums so far.

This tool is normally the most useful when there are many wireless signals in the same area. 

[nsayer]

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John_Getzke wrote:

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RUn2it wrote:

All that the Meraki thing did was show me the same info the computer already shows unless I missed a button or something

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The Meraki tool displays more information than your Wireless Network Connections window on your computer.  What is normally the most helpful is to actually see the different wireless channels and signals.  For example, when there are competing Wireless N signals on the same channel as the MiFi the MiFi signal may be getting overpowered and drowned out.   We have seen many instances of that scenario on these forums so far.

This tool is normally the most useful when there are many wireless signals in the same area. 

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In my case, I am quite sure that this is not a WiFi issue. At the exact same moment that the Internet is not reachable, the vz.hotspot page works perfectly and I have no trouble bringing up the system log, etc.

[nsayer]

I can virtually guarantee that this is not a wifi problem. I can always load and refresh vz.hotspot and never have any trouble loading the diagnostic log, not to mention having full wifi "bars" on my devices and being able to obtain DHCP leases, etc.

I've called support now, and they had no suggestions other than ones I have absolutely no expectation of efficacy - pull out the battery, reset to factory, yadda yadda yadda.

The last word from support is they now want to swap out the SIM card. I'll do that (because if I don't, then no doubt they will pin it all on that and refuse to move on), but again, I have zero confidence it will make any difference.

[nsayer]

It took the store 4 SIM cards, 3 employees, 2 phone calls to support and one hour, but they finally managed to change out the SIM in my mifi. So far, the problem has not recurred, but I haven't really used it other than a brief test so far.

[nsayer]

The new SIM did not make any difference. I caught the MiFi doing this again this evening.

If there is a common denominator, I think it's movement. My MiFi is used more when I'm moving than not, but even so I can't remember an occasion when I've run into this when standing still.

[John_Getzke]

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nsayer wrote:
The new SIM did not make any difference. I caught the MiFi doing this again this evening.

If there is a common denominator, I think it's movement. My MiFi is used more when I'm moving than not, but even so I can't remember an occasion when I've run into this when standing still.

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Then it sounds like the towers are having a hard time handing off your signal or keeping track of you as you roam about.  We still cannot conclude that the problem is specific to the device or the network at this time, but my gut tells me its a network problem.

I wonder if other users who notice dormancy are moving around when it happens too.

[nsayer]

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John_Getzke wrote:

Then it sounds like the towers are having a hard time handing off your signal or keeping track of you as you roam about.  We still cannot conclude that the problem is specific to the device or the network at this time, but my gut tells me its a network problem.

I wonder if other users who notice dormancy are moving around when it happens too.

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I wish there was a configuration knob where I could disable the dormant state. I'd quite happily sacrifice battery life for making this problem go away. My daily commute is only an hour on the train.

[John_Getzke]

Fresh off the presses!

http://community.vzw.com/t5/4G-Discussion/Please-read-Interesting-article-on-the-4G-LTE-signal-issue...

An article by Andriod Police addresses the 4G LTE disconnection issues.  It looks like the explanation described in the article matches the symptoms of the "Dormant" problem perfectly.  The good news is that we may now have a cause for the problem.  Let's hope that Verizon can get to the bottom of it soon.

The bad news is that there still is no permanant fix for this kind of issue, nor are our MiFi's alone in the problem.  We also don't know why some users have the issue and others do not.  It appears to be a combination of both the new 4G SIM cards and the authentication network protocols that Verizon is using at the moment.  Anything without a 4G SIM card has been uneffected. 

Time will tell if Verizon can fix this problem without sending out new equiptment to everyone.

[nsayer]

This just doesn't ring true to me somehow. I don't have to bounce the RF layer to get the MiFi back up, and I don't ever see authentication issues in the system log. My guess is that the device goes dormant, and the character of the network changes radically (perhaps through movement), and when it wakes up, it can't cope. And yet, it seemingly copes well enough that it doesn't bounce the connection or downgrade to EVDO or some such.

[John_Getzke]

A new solution has been proposed which may be helpful in this situation:

http://community.vzw.com/t5/4G-Discussion/Novatel-Wireless-MiFi4510L-stops-every-30-minutes/m-p/7558...

The poster mentions enabling the MAC filter of the MiFi to help with his disconnection events.  He noticed the problem was happening while around other wireless devices such as when he was traveling.  I wonder if his solution would help in this situation.  Let me know if you need help with the steps to enable the MAC Filter.

I admit this is truely a shot in the dark, but it might be worth it to try it out on one of your trips to work on the train and see if there is any improvement.  Thanks again for all of your feedback as we continue to troubleshoot your problem!  The community gains knowledge when people are willing to contribute to it.