Reboots, Reboots, RAM RAM RAM !!!

MrMRM513
Newbie

Being the slob I am, I kept no records of where I'd read that Android 2.2.x ( Froyo) had memory management issues. These issues, in turn, caused the Droid X to reboot on occasion.

 

Mine did that. A lot. My Droid X would reboot about every other day. Sometimes it would reboot without warning, and other times the unit would slow to a crawl before crashing. 

 

I had hoped these alleged memory issues would disappear with Gingerbread. So far, I'm not so sure.

 

My phone rebooted twice today, only a day after I'd factory reset it to fix another problem. The first time it crashed under Google Maps. Apparently, it couldn't handle the traffic layer for Washington D.C. on an early Saturday morning.

 

The second time, it crashed when I loaded an audio file from the NPR News program into its own player.

 

Okay, I realize that, despite the somewhat misleading 2.x motif, this is a fairly comprehensive rebuild, and much of the code of this allegedly open software has yet to be released to developers. If it had, Quick Settings would work like it did under 2.2. So it's possible that NPR News has some work to do to bring their audio player into line with GingerB. So we'll see.

 

But Maps? That's Gogle, too. And it's a huge resource hog. Despite the fact Google switched to vector graphics, it now caches more of the data on the phone, so either way it's both processor and memory hungry. And I wonder if 2.3 has the same problem moving unused programs out of RAM fast enough so necessary data won't load so fast as to collide with that being evacuated. Further, I can't be sure if Maps crashed the phone due to some hinky bit of code, or because its RAM demands bumped the phone into disaster mode.

 

Either way, it's still wait and see. But I'm not holding my breath. 

 

Mike

Wishing I could read code like a newspaper

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34 Replies
Wildman
Legend

In reality the OS does not have a memory issue, if you want a memory issue get a Windows Mobile Device :smileyvery-happy:, the main issue with android is that too many trust the memory managment system to handle freeing up memory as need but I can say it does better than other OS but it is far from perfect and it does need assistance....   I Know, I know, so many say a Task Killer isnt needed and causes issues but I have used it without issues and havent seen any restarts due to low memory because if the app is used as designed it still can be a useful tool.

 

Basically dont use it to keep a app closed but in fact use it to close unused apps to restore the memory to the system for use, if you follow these instruction you will notice a minimal amount of FC and restarts.

 

This is just my view and I am sure other would beg to differ and I accept that but I am a user that test before making judgment and use what has proved to best for my device, all devices do not run the same apps so the memry use will differ.

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crb79
Specialist - Level 2

Wildman wrote:

In reality the OS does not have a memory issue, if you want a memory issue get a Windows Mobile Device :smileyvery-happy:, the main issue with android is that too many trust the memory managment system to handle freeing up memory as need but I can say it does better than other OS but it is far from perfect and it does need assistance....   I Know, I know, so many say a Task Killer isnt needed and causes issues but I have used it without issues and havent seen any restarts due to low memory because if the app is used as designed it still can be a useful tool.

 

Basically dont use it to keep a app closed but in fact use it to close unused apps to restore the memory to the system for use, if you follow these instruction you will notice a minimal amount of FC and restarts.

 

This is just my view and I am sure other would beg to differ and I accept that but I am a user that test before making judgment and use what has proved to best for my device, all devices do not run the same apps so the memry use will differ.


 

You are right on target Wildman.  The biggest issue is MANY apps cannot be closed they simply go to the background and hangout.  There are also apps which freeze up and it takes minutes for the force close to kick in.

 

Like you Wildman, I can't remember the last time my phone restart itself and I have over 300 apps installed.  I've also had my GPS turned on since day one, and I run Performance mode, I end the night with 60-70% charge left and have occassionally had the wall plug unplugged during overnight charges and made it through the 2nd day with 20-30% charge left.  My best was 1day 17 hours between charges with 30% remaining.

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MrMRM513
Newbie
Sounds interesting, and I'd like to give task killing as you described it a try. Any recommended apps? Seems by their descriptions many task management apps kill by default and require users to block exceptions. Are there any that leave other apps alone except those you choose to restrict?

Thanks for the advice.
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crb79
Specialist - Level 2

MrMRM513 wrote:
Sounds interesting, and I'd like to give task killing as you described it a try. Any recommended apps? Seems by their descriptions many task management apps kill by default and require users to block exceptions. Are there any that leave other apps alone except those you choose to restrict?

Thanks for the advice.


I've used Advanced Task Killer for almost the life of my phone.  I don't recall which version I'm running but I suspect it's currently the latest Froyo release.  It's default settings don't kill system programs, only apps.

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Galaxy80
Enthusiast - Level 3

crb79 wrote:

MrMRM513 wrote:
Sounds interesting, and I'd like to give task killing as you described it a try. Any recommended apps? Seems by their descriptions many task management apps kill by default and require users to block exceptions. Are there any that leave other apps alone except those you choose to restrict?

Thanks for the advice.


I've used Advanced Task Killer for almost the life of my phone.  I don't recall which version I'm running but I suspect it's currently the latest Froyo release.  It's default settings don't kill system programs, only apps.


I used Advance Task Killer for almost the life of my phone as well... Until I upgraded to Gingerbread. Task killers are a highly debated subject. But most people will tell you not to use them because they do more harm than good. Android manages its RAM differently than computers do. Computers will rely on the user to free up RAM. Android does this on its own. When you use task killers, it uses more battery and RAM than not using one. It takes processing power and RAM to kill apps. Gingerbread has a good manual task killer in the menu under Applications/Running Services. You can manually kill apps/services there. You can also click on the menu button and go to Cached Processes. There you can clear those..

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crb79
Specialist - Level 2

Galaxy80 wrote:

crb79 wrote:

MrMRM513 wrote:
Sounds interesting, and I'd like to give task killing as you described it a try. Any recommended apps? Seems by their descriptions many task management apps kill by default and require users to block exceptions. Are there any that leave other apps alone except those you choose to restrict?

Thanks for the advice.


I've used Advanced Task Killer for almost the life of my phone.  I don't recall which version I'm running but I suspect it's currently the latest Froyo release.  It's default settings don't kill system programs, only apps.


I used Advance Task Killer for almost the life of my phone as well... Until I upgraded to Gingerbread. Task killers are a highly debated subject. But most people will tell you not to use them because they do more harm than good. Android manages its RAM differently than computers do. Computers will rely on the user to free up RAM. Android does this on its own. When you use task killers, it uses more battery and RAM than not using one. It takes processing power and RAM to kill apps. Gingerbread has a good manual task killer in the menu under Applications/Running Services. You can manually kill apps/services there. You can also click on the menu button and go to Cached Processes. There you can clear those..



Since installing ATK I easily get 2 full days out of 1 charge.  Last night I finished night 2 with 30% left, my largest battery drain was 42% to talk time which was 4hrs 20mins. The next largest was 21% to display and then each other item was under 10%.  Total elapsed time between charges was 1 day 19hours 22 mins.

 

One of these days I'll install a screenshot app and upload pictures.

 

As for those who say don't use one, you are more than free to never use one.  I just question all the people who preach to never use one but have never tried them.  I'll keep using mine and getting 2 days out of a charge when I need.  Oh, and it's also been 6 months since I last had to do a battery pull reset with over 300 apps installed.

 

Ford tells me what alternator I'm supposed to use in my truck, yet I run a different one for higher amps to charge a dual battery system.  Again Ford tells me I don't need 2 batteries, but where is Ford when my truck won't start because the single battery got drained using my winch?  Same with Android, they have very little control over developers and can't factor the behavior of every app.  Heck, Android continually messes up their own apps.  Where's those Android developers who told you that you "shouldn't" need a task killer?  I'll tell you, they are running to the bank to deposit your money into their accounts.

 

Oh, and I'd also like to point out that after over a year of being told we don't need a task killer;  Android 2.3 features.... you guessed it....  a built in task killer..........

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Cody21
Master - Level 2

@ Wildman said:  "... snip ... if I remember the System Panel is a task killer also with just a more detailed ui..."

 

Actually, SYSTEM PANEL simply ALLOWS you to MANUALLY stop/close a task ... there is no automation to do so, unlike ATK's.


What I like about it is that it provides me the ANALYSIS to look at Active tasks and their CPU time consumed over a period of time (e.g., 2 hrs, 8 hrs, 1 day, etc.) . That monitoring is a switch that I can turn on or off.  If I happen to see something "suspicious", then it at least gives me some control over troubleshooting.  It really is a nice APP if you happen to be a bit computer literate, IMHO.   Or can can probably be overwhelming if your'e not.

 

YMMV

 

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crb79
Specialist - Level 2

Cody21 wrote:

@ Wildman said:  "... snip ... if I remember the System Panel is a task killer also with just a more detailed ui..."

 

Actually, SYSTEM PANEL simply ALLOWS you to MANUALLY stop/close a task ... there is no automation to do so, unlike ATK's.


What I like about it is that it provides me the ANALYSIS to look at Active tasks and their CPU time consumed over a period of time (e.g., 2 hrs, 8 hrs, 1 day, etc.) . That monitoring is a switch that I can turn on or off.  If I happen to see something "suspicious", then it at least gives me some control over troubleshooting.  It really is a nice APP if you happen to be a bit computer literate, IMHO.   Or can can probably be overwhelming if your'e not.

 

YMMV

 


I did like that about System Panel, the new GB system monitor allows you to see CPU use and battery drain of apps that run in the background as well.

 

Some people use a auto-kill blindly, I have apps I do not use set for auto-kill or apps that prove battery/cpu intensive while in background.

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Wildman
Legend

 


Cody21 wrote:

@ Wildman said:  "... snip ... if I remember the System Panel is a task killer also with just a more detailed ui..."

 

Actually, SYSTEM PANEL simply ALLOWS you to MANUALLY stop/close a task ... there is no automation to do so, unlike ATK's.


What I like about it is that it provides me the ANALYSIS to look at Active tasks and their CPU time consumed over a period of time (e.g., 2 hrs, 8 hrs, 1 day, etc.) . That monitoring is a switch that I can turn on or off.  If I happen to see something "suspicious", then it at least gives me some control over troubleshooting.  It really is a nice APP if you happen to be a bit computer literate, IMHO.   Or can can probably be overwhelming if your'e not.

 

YMMV

 


I acknowledge the app has some attraction and in no way System Panel is a bad app but in the end the name of the app list the Task Killer as a major feature so I just do not get the concept of excluding the app as a task killer?   If you can pick the apps that you want to close without issues in System Panel, if you use ATK in the same manner it shouldnt make any diffrence if you set the app to auto close when placed in sleep mode and the user manually closing the task..

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Cody21
Master - Level 2

@Wildman - not to belabor this (again) ...  my ONLY point is that there is nothing AUTOMATIC with the APP.  You must manually select and close (kill) an APP.    vs. "AUTOMATED" TASK KILLER that runs in the backround and kills tasks without the user probably noting.  There are many other ways to MANUALLY kill a running task, this just being one of them - but with more features. 

 

peace out

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Wildman
Legend

Cody I am taking you are not getting it.... I am agreeing with your view but just giving OP another angle to view so they can draw their opinion...

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Galaxy80
Enthusiast - Level 3

I hope the moderators let me post this link. It's very informative about task killers and why you shouldn't use one on Android

 

http://www.droid-life.com/2011/06/02/revisiting-android-task-killers-and-why-you-dont-need-one/

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Cody21
Master - Level 2

I'm on the side that has Never used a Task Killer (unlike Wildman who is a proponent of them :smileywink: ). This use=not=use=one discussion has been going on for almost a year. Personally, I believe and trust the Android OS to self-manage it's memory;  swapping things in and out as needed by the phone. That being said, this does not preclude me from having a "monitoring tool" installed that I launch from time to time if my phone seems lethargic. It gives me the ability to drill down into the system tasks to try to identify if an APP or something is taking over the CPU. (It is called "System Panel").  Regarding Task Killers - I *really* believe that they are intended for those people with decent computer skills. You really need to understand what you're doing with them or you can just get yourself into more issues and frustrations. In most cases, you need to properly customize them, not just install one and hope for the best.  Good luck everyone. 

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Galaxy80
Enthusiast - Level 3

I'll have to check that one out. Thanks Cody!

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MrMRM513
Newbie

Cody, agreed.

 

Task killers are not a solution taken lightly. And, for the record, I'm generally in the same camp: trust Android memory management, no blanket task kill, use a system app to kill rogue programs chewing up processor cycles.

 

Thinking about this from another angle, it could very well be an older app which hasn't been optimized for use with DXGB, and not GB itself.

 

Which means I shouldn't speculate, but gather evidence. Now, how does one go about that? Are there any system apps which create event logs? Does GB create its own event logs which I can pull using the developers kit (have a copy for taking screen shots)? And then how do I make sense of what I collect?

 

If I post my general setup, would anybody here be interested in looking at it and offering advice?

 

Or do I just say the hell with it and expect my phone to reboot at any time, like when I'm trying to navigate somewhere, or make a call, or read the news?

 

Nah, I'm going digging.

 

Mike

Decisions, decisions...

 

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Cody21
Master - Level 2

My approach to finding rogue APPS (and I *have* had to do this) is to first run in SAFE MODE for a while - some length of time that "proves" to me that the issue is due to something I did or installed. e.g.,  I had an issue that drove me NUTS for about 2 weeks - my phone had a horrible "lag" when I swiped it to Unlock .. it took 10 secs for it to totally wake up. I was blaming LPP, Extended Controls, everything.  I ran in SAFE MODE and did NOT have the problem. So I started on a week long journey of troubleshooting it. Used SYSTEM PANEL to start Stopping APPS.  It finally had it identified to the FACEBOOK Widget that I installed. I removed it and my phone was very snappy again.

 

So if you have a problem that you soncider "reproduceable", SAFE MODE is a good place to start -- but you want to make sure you don't start 3rd party APPS that you don't require during your testing.

 

 

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Galaxy80
Enthusiast - Level 3

Honestly, I've had issues with Google maps freezing and rebooting my phone, on Froyo AND Gingerbread. I don't know what the deal is with maps, but there is some issue there. I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling, but no luck. I hope your issues get resolved. I deal with random reboots several times a week, but I don't make a big deal about it. Sometimes, it's good to reboot the system. If it becomes too much though, like rebooting repeatedly in a short period of time, or becomes persistent, then there is a valid problem that needs to be resolved. How many apps are you running? Under running services, how many processes are using more than 10mb? I noticed that the super mario live wallpaper I had and yahoo mail were taking 12-15mb ea, so I uninstalled them and have noticed a decent improvement on the speed and stability of my phone. Are you using a task killer? Those do more harm than good. It is highly recommended that you uninstall if running a task killer..


MrMRM513 wrote:

Being the slob I am, I kept no records of where I'd read that Android 2.2.x ( Froyo) had memory management issues. These issues, in turn, caused the Droid X to reboot on occasion.

 

Mine did that. A lot. My Droid X would reboot about every other day. Sometimes it would reboot without warning, and other times the unit would slow to a crawl before crashing. 

 

I had hoped these alleged memory issues would disappear with Gingerbread. So far, I'm not so sure.

 

My phone rebooted twice today, only a day after I'd factory reset it to fix another problem. The first time it crashed under Google Maps. Apparently, it couldn't handle the traffic layer for Washington D.C. on an early Saturday morning.

 

The second time, it crashed when I loaded an audio file from the NPR News program into its own player.

 

Okay, I realize that, despite the somewhat misleading 2.x motif, this is a fairly comprehensive rebuild, and much of the code of this allegedly open software has yet to be released to developers. If it had, Quick Settings would work like it did under 2.2. So it's possible that NPR News has some work to do to bring their audio player into line with GingerB. So we'll see.

 

But Maps? That's Gogle, too. And it's a huge resource hog. Despite the fact Google switched to vector graphics, it now caches more of the data on the phone, so either way it's both processor and memory hungry. And I wonder if 2.3 has the same problem moving unused programs out of RAM fast enough so necessary data won't load so fast as to collide with that being evacuated. Further, I can't be sure if Maps crashed the phone due to some hinky bit of code, or because its RAM demands bumped the phone into disaster mode.

 

Either way, it's still wait and see. But I'm not holding my breath. 

 

Mike

Wishing I could read code like a newspaper


 

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Ann154
Community Leader
Community Leader
I prefer System Panel as well.

I'm most definitely NOT a VZW employee. If a post answered your question, please mark it as the answer.

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Wildman
Legend

Ann154 wrote:
I prefer System Panel as well.

I have to admit that System Panel has improved since I last used it, the device has ran well and hadnt rebooted but the strange part I got better battery life using Task Killer still, my device hasnt last a full day off charger with System Panel only.

 

It seems to help with the device running smooth but doent seem to improve battery life on my device but thanks for pointing this out, now I will have to figure out a solution to work with the best of both worlds..

 

Good Looking Out.

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droidsw
Specialist - Level 1
This is my third X, after rebooting issues caused by external source (router) had me on the exchange merry-go-round, had been flawless since the Dec update, until GB. Now, it's a flaky, buggy device, including more rebooting than the previous 6 months.

There have been many threads about rebooting. There is a thread in the Moto X forum about rebooting with over 200K views. That is a red flag.

Debate, pontificate, offer solutions, but this phone has had rebooting issues from day one. Enter an update into the mix and there you go......
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