The REAL issue we have with verizon regarding the N1/Increbible

[albiewan]

I agree with what you say and have this to add.  I'm not defending VZW but I found this to be amazing.  This is a news release from Jan 2010 regarding Verizon and their growth: "2.2 million total net customer additions, excluding acquisitions and adjustments, in 4Q 2009; 1.2 million retail net customer additions in quarter; 87.5 million retail customers, up 25 percent from year-end 2008; 91.2 million total customers, up 26.6 percent from year-end 2008."     Now I've been with VZW for at least 6 years and I gotta say that with over 91 million customers they are doing the best they can.  I too bought an Eris last November with the promise of 2.1 "soon".  I assume that the update has bugs and I'm sure they don't want to release it with problems.  I also am peeved that the Eris is being discontinued but that's the way it goes.  I will get the Incredible when it comes out and sell my Eris (hopefully with 2.1)  And, at some point fairly soon, the Incredible will be old news and the next hot phone will be coming.  That's the business and that's the way it is.  I do think that that the HTC Evo (on Sprint) is the harbinger of things to come and I'll bet the rent money that VZW will have something better.  They are just not gonna release stuff until they know it's ready.  Besides, NONE of the rumors about any of the phones are coming from VZW.

[max69442]

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supitsmike wrote:

I am no businessman, however, I will say that I don't think it is in business practice to 'throw them a frickin' bone' when it's not written on paper and signed.

 This is a cellphone company, in the business of providing voice and data services! Not to make you feel good and warm on the inside!

You don't think it is in business practice to give the customers what they want or to keep them satisfied. Maybe that's the problem with business these days. As far as the business standpoint, letting people know that something is upcoming would not cost them anything. From all I've read on the matter, and this has been no small amount of reading, there are a few reasons why they are releasing this like they are.

1. Droid Eris end of life. If you've still got these in stock why would you announce a phone that trumps it in every  way     when you want to get down to zero stock?

2. Moto Droid is still selling like mad. Same reason as above only to thin down the stock.

3. Viral. This underground marketing tool creates serious hype by showing snippets here and there and it's cheap/free as mostly people other than the manufacturer are promoting it.

These are the three most speculated reasons why they are releasing the Incredible the way they are. As far as the N1, that has to do with problems they found with it (possibly screen issues like the GSM units?), plus Verizon at this time will NOT be carrying this phone! Google is selling it and Verizon will let it run on their network. Verizon will not handle issues with hardware or software, that will be through Google as far as everything I have read on. And the only way it will be subsidized will be for new customers. I know it's different than what we're used to, but this is Googles decision to do this and as far as I can remember nobody else has done this before. If you want the N1, you will have to go through Google website.

[dabubbakin]

I hear that the Nexus One is actually being sold in Verizon stores. I realize it's against everything Google believes but then again Google believes in making money too right? The N1 sales suck and they know it. The only way to sell more is to get it in a store. Now I can't say that's actually going to happen but it seems probable. I'm sure Google will bend over on this one while Verizon takes it to them on selling it but who cares at this point? The N1 is barely pulling its own right now. Give it 6 more months and nobody will care anymore. Unless Google planned on losing some money I can see the strategy here. If not than Google is desperate for some sales.

Will Verizon let the N1 cut into Incredible sales? Heck no! It'll be interesting to see what happens this month.

P.S. I have a few VZW friends at a store including a store manager who claim everything comes this month along with the N1 being sold in stores. I questioned them a lot about this and they have no more answers. Nobody knows for sure. They claim most new phones that come out are opened and displayed the morning they work. Verizon keeps a good secret most of the time. They get some info... but not everything.

Meanwhile I'll be sitting here with my Voyager hidden in my pocket for nobody to see.

[bkfist]

Well, actually, I personally *would* entertain the idea of spending $500 on a Nexus One, re-sell my Droid for a couple hundred, and when my current contract came to an end, I would be *more* than happy to purchase my next phone out-right at retail if Verizon were to offer a monthly discount for not subsidizing my phone purchase (like T-Mobile does with their Even More Plus plans.)

Not that I am in any way unhappy with my Motorola Droid, nor do I consider the hardware out of date...  The chamge to a Vexus One would be for the AMOLED screen, to support Goolge's vision of an open mobile enviroment and just necause I don't own one yet

[PrettyPisces]

Im glad to hear that the Incredible is TRULY releasing soon, but yet and still I agree with Dasher on this entire situation...we pay so much money for our plans yet of ALL THE CARRIERS (t-mobile, sprint, at&t) we have the **bleep**tiest of the **bleep** phones...How about take some of this money that we pay you Verizon and purchase something that we want, and hey, if you have to take your time to release it to fix bugs, etc, thats FINE...but can we know SOMETHING!!!!??? Anywhoo...APRIL 19TH I WILL BE LEAVING MY STORM 2 ALONE AND PLAYING WITH THE INCREDIBLE...YAY!

[thunderbucks]

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ryan49er wrote:

Even if these phones do become available right away.  Say Verizon gets the latest greatest thing first.  Are you going to pay full price say $500.00 on up to have it? Chances are you have a contract and aren't eligible for an upgrade price. I'm not going to pay that kind of money for something that will be obsolete in a year.  My point is that if Verizon is going to get better phones and discontinue the older models shouldn't we as loyal customers be eligible to upgrade to the best hardware at the same price new customers are given?  I don't have that kind of money to shell out every 6 months anyway no matter how bad I gotta have it.

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Nobody has to pay the $400-$600 full prices.  Chances are there are just as many people eligible for an upgrade as those who are not.  And there are quite a few people that are only 1-3 months away from an upgrade at any given time.

And these kind of devices are not likely to be obsolete "in a year", nor will we ened to "shell out big bucks" every 6 months for this new technology.  We're beyond the G1 and the iPhone 2G.  We haev already penetrated the surface of this caliber device, and things are starting to have more lasting capabilities.  Just look at the iPhone 3G.  If I am correct, this was released just about 2 years ago, and I'm sure a rare few would consider an iPhone 3G "obsolete."

As technology with these devices progresses and computer power and capabilities continue to grow, we will see smaller margins of improvement, hence things' longevity and resistance to being obsolete will grow.

For the most part, I have to agree with the original poster.  When video games are released, there is tons of hype and media about an upcoming release date.  I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect some announcments regarding the status of things as opposed to these mind-numbing soft releases.

[thunderbucks]

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jayjay1122 wrote:

I'd like to play devils advocate for a moment!!

 

Perhaps if companies like T-Mobile and AT&T and Sprint spent a little less money trying to dazzle you with what they're holding in their left hand so you ignore the network they're holding in their right hand and used that money to actually improve their networks we would not even be having this topic discussed and MAYBE you wouldn't feel so slighted by the VZW phone offering.

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Is this really as important as it sounds?  Sure it's good to have a good network.  But in this day in age there are many other things that are beginning to matter just as much.  I'm not referring to things like Pocket Wireless, Cricket, Revol and the like, rather just the 4 big guys.  Let's look at Google's sales model for the Nexus One.  Google is trying to focus the importance on the device itself, while letting the network be an afterthought.  Crazy? Maybe.  But with our phones becoming more and more capable of anything but talking, consumers want what they want.  There's a reason Google is steadfast in this business model, and this is obviously how most things function in the European market.

I love Verizon as much as anyone, but I'm going to make a comparison here.  It might be exaggerated, and I understand not everybody is in the market for the best smartphone (but then again, what forum are we in?), but it's just to build an understanding.  Let's say I have a choice between only Verizon or T-Mobile.  Now let's say with Verizon I can only choose between the Eris and the Storm 2, whereas with T-Mobile I can choose either the Nexus One or the HD2.  Clearly one has better offerings than the other.  Other carriers' coverage isn't exactly abismal compared to Verizon, so I wouldn't exactly say you have to cringe at the thought of another network. 

[jayjay1122]

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thunderbucks wrote:

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jayjay1122 wrote:

I'd like to play devils advocate for a moment!!

 

Perhaps if companies like T-Mobile and AT&T and Sprint spent a little less money trying to dazzle you with what they're holding in their left hand so you ignore the network they're holding in their right hand and used that money to actually improve their networks we would not even be having this topic discussed and MAYBE you wouldn't feel so slighted by the VZW phone offering.

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Is this really as important as it sounds?  Sure it's good to have a good network.  But in this day in age there are many other things that are beginning to matter just as much.  I'm not referring to things like Pocket Wireless, Cricket, Revol and the like, rather just the 4 big guys.  Let's look at Google's sales model for the Nexus One.  Google is trying to focus the importance on the device itself, while letting the network be an afterthought.  Crazy? Maybe.  But with our phones becoming more and more capable of anything but talking, consumers want what they want.  There's a reason Google is steadfast in this business model, and this is obviously how most things function in the European market.

I love Verizon as much as anyone, but I'm going to make a comparison here.  It might be exaggerated, and I understand not everybody is in the market for the best smartphone (but then again, what forum are we in?), but it's just to build an understanding.  Let's say I have a choice between only Verizon or T-Mobile.  Now let's say with Verizon I can only choose between the Eris and the Storm 2, whereas with T-Mobile I can choose either the Nexus One or the HD2.  Clearly one has better offerings than the other.  Other carriers' coverage isn't exactly abismal compared to Verizon, so I wouldn't exactly say you have to cringe at the thought of another network. 

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Sorry for the delay...

I definitely see what you are saying. My point is only that a lot of the animosity around here is not that VZW *doesn't* ever come out with good/better phones it is that they don't spend tons of money marketing those devices or marketing them well in advance.

Can we safely say that VZW and AT&T are the two biggest? I carry a phone from each carrier, Blackberry Bold (work) on AT&T and now an Incredible (personal) from VZW. My coverage is so poor on the AT&T phone that I have to go outside of my office to make a call yet I can surf the web at my desk on the VZW phone and I am in the NY/NJ metro area, not in the mountains of Tennessee. Again, I am not thrilled with VZW's methodology of waiting till the last minute with releases and the "it'll come when it comes" approach to firmware and software updates but I am not giving up this coverage because Sprint is gonna come out with the EVO in a few months or AT&T has the Iphone.

[fezzik]

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jayjay1122 wrote:

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thunderbucks wrote:

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jayjay1122 wrote:

I'd like to play devils advocate for a moment!!

 

Perhaps if companies like T-Mobile and AT&T and Sprint spent a little less money trying to dazzle you with what they're holding in their left hand so you ignore the network they're holding in their right hand and used that money to actually improve their networks we would not even be having this topic discussed and MAYBE you wouldn't feel so slighted by the VZW phone offering.

---

Is this really as important as it sounds?  Sure it's good to have a good network.  But in this day in age there are many other things that are beginning to matter just as much.  I'm not referring to things like Pocket Wireless, Cricket, Revol and the like, rather just the 4 big guys.  Let's look at Google's sales model for the Nexus One.  Google is trying to focus the importance on the device itself, while letting the network be an afterthought.  Crazy? Maybe.  But with our phones becoming more and more capable of anything but talking, consumers want what they want.  There's a reason Google is steadfast in this business model, and this is obviously how most things function in the European market.

I love Verizon as much as anyone, but I'm going to make a comparison here.  It might be exaggerated, and I understand not everybody is in the market for the best smartphone (but then again, what forum are we in?), but it's just to build an understanding.  Let's say I have a choice between only Verizon or T-Mobile.  Now let's say with Verizon I can only choose between the Eris and the Storm 2, whereas with T-Mobile I can choose either the Nexus One or the HD2.  Clearly one has better offerings than the other.  Other carriers' coverage isn't exactly abismal compared to Verizon, so I wouldn't exactly say you have to cringe at the thought of another network. 

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Sorry for the delay...

I definitely see what you are saying. My point is only that a lot of the animosity around here is not that VZW *doesn't* ever come out with good/better phones it is that they don't spend tons of money marketing those devices or marketing them well in advance.

Can we safely say that VZW and AT&T are the two biggest? I carry a phone from each carrier, Blackberry Bold (work) on AT&T and now an Incredible (personal) from VZW. My coverage is so poor on the AT&T phone that I have to go outside of my office to make a call yet I can surf the web at my desk on the VZW phone and I am in the NY/NJ metro area, not in the mountains of Tennessee. Again, I am not thrilled with VZW's methodology of waiting till the last minute with releases and the "it'll come when it comes" approach to firmware and software updates but I am not giving up this coverage because Sprint is gonna come out with the EVO in a few months or AT&T has the Iphone.

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Funny you mention that.  I got great reception in the mountains in Tennessee and North Carolina.  I get spotty but some coverage in the mountains in Kentucky.  My inlaws using AT&T turn their phones off when they start up the mountain in KY because once you get about half way up it is useless till you get back in town.  I can at least go outside and use my phone.  Sometimes I can even use it inside.  Ah the network. 

[fezzik]

Supits did I really see you say the Incredible's stats weren't that much better than the DROID and that the N1 was.  The incredible is superior at least on paper to the N1.  Questionable how that translates in practicality.  Since this thread though we discovered that because of the Incredible Google will no longer offer the N1 for Verizon.  My suspicion is that Verizon was not going to subsidize it or decided not to late in the game because the Incredible was Verizon Branded and the same or better. 

The DROID is by no means obsolete.  I would still recommend it to anyone who wants a physical keyboard on Verizon.  It's just that with the introduction of the Incredible, the Nexus one, and the EVO 4G the DROID has become a mid-grade phone.  There is a place for mid-grade Smartphones.  It should be priced as a mid-Grade phone now though.  When Motorola's next puppy comes out I suspect the DROID will either reach EOL or the price will drop significantly.  Fair pricing would put the ERIS and the DEVOUR at $100 and the DROID at about $150 with the Incredible at $200.  It would be a way to keep wildly popular phones like the DROID going to a new base of customer (the ones who can't justify 200 or 100 with NE2 but could swing 50 with NE2.  As the technology pushes forward it would give phones a chain to go through.  With it's specs the DROID won't be obsolete for a long while but it won't be TOL very long.  In a year or so it will be comparable to low end phones or lower end anyway.  I suspect we will see new 528Mhz phones coming out for a while yet despite the popularity of the Snapdragon and soon the Intel Morristown.  Which I am sorry until AMD jumps on the mobile bandwagon the intel would be the way to go IMHTO. 

It seems we have only 2 levels though TOL and EL.  However, with the fast pace technology is moving in this area phones that were TOL will no longer be TOL 6 months after their release but they will still be better than EL phones and won't reach obsolescence very quickly unless they are priced out of the market. 

Just a thought.